School Threatens to Ruin Valedictorian’s Naval Academy Appt.

[Quantum Windbag]

Naturally, you would believe everything the school says.

Do you have any evidence the school is ‘lying.’

Otherwise, the school was well within its rights to end the speech. The student should have delivered the speech he agreed to deliver, and was compelled to have the approval of the school regarding any changes.

The kid is not Naval Academy material

If he can't hack it giving a speech he agreed to give , he won't hack it as a Midshipman. Something about an honor code

The school knew he wasn't going to give the speech they approved, he made it clear to them in advance. In other words, he didn't agree to anything, he told them he would not give the speech they wanted him to give. That is why they were ready to cut his mike if he deviated from the approved speech.

The USNA honor code states that ""A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." Want to explain to me, using really small words, how not giving the speech he said he wouldn't give violates the honor code?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Have we heard the School District's version of the story yet?

It is in the story, can't you read?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A helicopter pilot, a platoon leader, a gun captain ~ all have an honor code to follow, and that means following orders one does not like much of the time, bripat. You never would have cut it as a commissioned officer.

It also means not following an order occasionally.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The kid is not Naval Academy material

If he can't hack it giving a speech he agreed to give , he won't hack it as a Midshipman. Something about an honor code

So you think "naval material" means getting accustomed to the taste of boot polish and never questioning your superiors even when they are violating the Constitution?

At the Academy.....yes.

"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."

Want to tell me how that stacks up with your claim that people should obey their superiors even when they are wrong?

 

[JakeStarkey]

A helicopter pilot, a platoon leader, a gun captain ~ all have an honor code to follow, and that means following orders one does not like much of the time, bripat. You never would have cut it as a commissioned officer.

It also means not following an order occasionally.

Your sentence has no context, so please develop the thought.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So you think "naval material" means getting accustomed to the taste of boot polish and never questioning your superiors even when they are violating the Constitution?

At the Academy.....yes.

"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."

Want to tell me how that stacks up with your claim that people should obey their superiors even when they are wrong?

Her spirit of military collegiality is far closer to the code than your wild cowboyness, or is it cowgirletteness?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The kid is not Naval Academy material

If he can't hack it giving a speech he agreed to give , he won't hack it as a Midshipman. Something about an honor code

I've seen more than one cadet wash out of service academies because they didn't understand chain of command when they went in. I would have respected him more if he refused to submit the speech. But if he led the school official to believe that he was giving a "compliant" speech and did not, that is an honor code violation if done at a service academy.

If he had expressed himself properly, the school would be able to disqualify him as valedictorian (it a bestowed honor, not a "right") or to choose another student to give the speech. I've also seen this happen when a student insisted on making editorial comments about school policy or political matters that the school deemed inappropriate. After all, this ceremony belongs to the school, not one student.

What the fuck is wrong with everyone who is defending the principal here? They knew he wasn't planning to follow the speech, he made that clear in advance, which is why they were ready to cut his mike, and why he didn't even finish the sentence before they did.

By the way, the graduation is for the students, not the school. The school will still be there next year.

As a side note, valedictorian is traditionally given to the student with the highest GPA of the graduating class.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

At the Academy.....yes.

The code of military justice stipulates that you are not to obey illegal orders.

And that the burden of proof is on you if you disobey them. That is why you could not cut it in the military, bripat.

Strangely enough, you also have the burden of proof to prove the order was lawful if you try to argue that you were only following orders.

Which explains why you couldn't hack it yourself.

 

[Gracie]

The principle used his position as a bully tactic. He should be fired.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Whatever his speech was and why they ended it is a moot point. The fact (I Presume it is a fact) that the PRINCIPLE decided to take it all a step further by intruding into this kids chances of going to the naval academy.....THAT is what needs to be eyeballed and addressed by the kids lawyer and the school system. If the principle did that, then he does not need to be a principle any more. Period.

So...a principal is not allowed to tell a prospective college about one of his student's character? Really?

What if the principal decided to cost your children their scholarship because they did something that you taught them was right and he didn't approve?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The code of military justice stipulates that you are not to obey illegal orders.

And that the burden of proof is on you if you disobey them. That is why you could not cut it in the military, bripat.

Strangely enough, you also have the burden of proof to prove the order was lawful if you try to argue that you were only following orders.

Which explains why you couldn't hack it yourself.

You are helping to pay my pension, so I thank you for your contribution.

My point. The burden of proof is on the soldier if charged if he tries to claim the order was not lawful.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A helicopter pilot, a platoon leader, a gun captain ~ all have an honor code to follow, and that means following orders one does not like much of the time, bripat. You never would have cut it as a commissioned officer.

It also means not following an order occasionally.

Your sentence has no context, so please develop the thought.

You can't get context from reading what you said?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

At the Academy.....yes.

"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."

Want to tell me how that stacks up with your claim that people should obey their superiors even when they are wrong?

Her spirit of military collegiality is far closer to the code than your wild cowboyness, or is it cowgirletteness?

Speaking of lack of context.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It also means not following an order occasionally.

Your sentence has no context, so please develop the thought.

You can't get context from reading what you said?

Ah, I see you have conceptual problems. Your sentence has no context.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."

Want to tell me how that stacks up with your claim that people should obey their superiors even when they are wrong?

Her spirit of military collegiality is far closer to the code than your wild cowboyness, or is it cowgirletteness?

Speaking of lack of context.

Thank you. You are right: you have none.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And that the burden of proof is on you if you disobey them. That is why you could not cut it in the military, bripat.

Strangely enough, you also have the burden of proof to prove the order was lawful if you try to argue that you were only following orders.

Which explains why you couldn't hack it yourself.

You are helping to pay my pension, so I thank you for your contribution.

My point. The burden of proof is on the soldier if charged if he tries to claim the order was not lawful.

My point is that every single time you obey an order you better know what the applicable laws and regulations are.

Yours is that anyone who doesn't do what he is told without thought is wrong.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yours is that anyone who doesn't do what he is told without thought is wrong.

If you think that is what the military is about, then you are wrong. I am glad you never served.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Naval Academy huh?

Where you are supposed to follow instructions without question? And he can't even deliver the valedictorian speech he agreed to give?

Not Naval Academy material

Follow instructions without question?

Don't know much about the military, do you?

RW doesn't know much about anything that isn't included in his daily talking points brief. That's how he knows so much about following instructions without question.

 

[Kondor3]

Well, in the absence of feedback from the Principal and the School District - subject to revision if-and-when their side of the story is ever made known - based upon what I know so far, my opinion is...

The boy acted like a boy, graduating high school, having done well, and having been accorded the honor of enrollment at the US Naval Academy...

A top-performer and a potential leader who was further accorded the honor of performing as valedictorian for his high-school graduating class.

He desired to mention God, et al, as part of his speech to the student body, and even went so far as to submit a draft of his speech which contained those very sentiments, and he was apparently told by the school district folk that he could not mention God in his speech.

In his 17-18 year-old mind, he saw a conflict between a blind following-of-orders and a resistance to what must have seemed to him a despicable violation of his Constitutional Rights, and he chose to stand up to authority on behalf of those Rights; the displeasure of the school district be damned.

I like the kid already.

Whether he decided rightly or wrongly, or somewhere in between, is not so much the point as is the array of positive character traits which such a decision brings to the surface; independent thinking, situational awareness and related analysis and decision-making, honesty and fair-play in conveying his intentions in advance to the school authorities, and considerable personal courage in actually delivering on his announced intentions despite the controversy which was sure to unfold afterwards.

None of this impinges upon his ability to follow lawful orders on some future date, and it strikes me as a marvelous learning opportunity for the kid, and an early manifestation of personal courage in the face of overwhelming power held over his head.

He's a 17-18 year -old kid, and he's already served-up one attribute of a good military leader: Personal Courage.

He has plenty of time to smooth-out any wrinkles in his priorities and decision-making processes, and the Naval Academy will, no doubt, do wonders for him in this regard, as, indeed, it does to most prospective leaders who choose to study there.

But you can't teach 'love of the Constitution', and you can't teach 'balls' - you can't teach Personal Courage...

And this kid has already passed those tests with Flying Colors... good for you, kid!

 

[gallantwarrior]

At the Academy.....yes.

"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."

Want to tell me how that stacks up with your claim that people should obey their superiors even when they are wrong?

Her spirit of military collegiality is far closer to the code than your wild cowboyness, or is it cowgirletteness?

If I've understood some of bodecea's claims, her spirit of military collegiality goes much, much further than most of us would have taken it. Just sayin'...