SCOTUS/Healthcare: For those of you who want a sneak peak of the Oral Arguments.

[Liability]

The Commerce Clause does NOT mean that the Federal government gets to regulate ALL commerce

The Commerce Clause doesn't trump the other parts of the Constitution, either.

 

[The Rabbi]

You didn't present an argument. You just said , " Nuh uh" and I mentioned nothing about people refusing to buy anything, ergo you missed the point

So this does not mean people are refusing to buy anything?
???
I refuted your argument by pointing out the premise is wrong. You want to say that health insurance is indispensible for health. It is not.

45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance

Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.

Statistics disagree with you.

Think about that number. Forty Five THOUSAND a year.

Thats FIFTEEN 9/11's every year!

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

We're willing to spend 514 billion dollars to avenge 3,000 people but not a dime to save 45,000 a year?

I see that in addition to being stupid you're really bad at reading.
What does "associated with" mean? It surely doesn't mean "caused." You can't say lack of health insurance causes people to die. That's absurd. Plenty of people don't have health insurance and live happy lives.

 

[Vidi]

So this does not mean people are refusing to buy anything?
???
I refuted your argument by pointing out the premise is wrong. You want to say that health insurance is indispensible for health. It is not.

45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance

Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.

Statistics disagree with you.

Think about that number. Forty Five THOUSAND a year.

Thats FIFTEEN 9/11's every year!

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

We're willing to spend 514 billion dollars to avenge 3,000 people but not a dime to save 45,000 a year?

I see that in addition to being stupid you're really bad at reading.
What does "associated with" mean? It surely doesn't mean "caused." You can't say lack of health insurance causes people to die. That's absurd. Plenty of people don't have health insurance and live happy lives.

Yes, they do.

People just like Mary Brown, who is the actual lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court Case against the affordable care act.

She was living a happy life too. So much do that not only did she agree with you but she went to court to stop that evil man in the White House.

And then the strangest thing happened.

But now, with hearings before the U.S. Supreme Court scheduled to take place this month, comes word that Brown’s business has failed and she and her husband have filed for bankruptcy protection with nearly $60,000 in consumer debt. Among the unpaid bills are $4,500 in medical*expenses

Read more here: http://voices.kansascity.com/entrie...y-brown-bankrupt-medical-bills/#storylink=cpy

So who gets to pay Mary Browns unpaid medical bills?

The rest of us.

So while you're telling me I don't have a right to dip into your pocket, you're advocating you dipping into mine.

 

[The Rabbi]

Statistics disagree with you.

Think about that number. Forty Five THOUSAND a year.

Thats FIFTEEN 9/11's every year!

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

We're willing to spend 514 billion dollars to avenge 3,000 people but not a dime to save 45,000 a year?

I see that in addition to being stupid you're really bad at reading.
What does "associated with" mean? It surely doesn't mean "caused." You can't say lack of health insurance causes people to die. That's absurd. Plenty of people don't have health insurance and live happy lives.

Yes, they do.

People just like Mary Brown, who is the actual lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court Case against the affordable care act.

She was living a happy life too. So much do that not only did she agree with you but she went to court to stop that evil man in the White House.

And then the strangest thing happened.

But now, with hearings before the U.S. Supreme Court scheduled to take place this month, comes word that Brown’s business has failed and she and her husband have filed for bankruptcy protection with nearly $60,000 in consumer debt. Among the unpaid bills are $4,500 in medical*expenses

Read more here: 'Obamacare' plaintiff Mary Brown bankrupt with medical bills | Midwest Voices

So who gets to pay Mary Browns unpaid medical bills?

The rest of us.

So while you're telling me I don't have a right to dip into your pocket, you're advocating you dipping into mine.

tell me how much you got billed for. I'll send you a check.

 

[Vidi]

I see that in addition to being stupid you're really bad at reading.
What does "associated with" mean? It surely doesn't mean "caused." You can't say lack of health insurance causes people to die. That's absurd. Plenty of people don't have health insurance and live happy lives.

Yes, they do.

People just like Mary Brown, who is the actual lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court Case against the affordable care act.

She was living a happy life too. So much do that not only did she agree with you but she went to court to stop that evil man in the White House.

And then the strangest thing happened.

But now, with hearings before the U.S. Supreme Court scheduled to take place this month, comes word that Brown’s business has failed and she and her husband have filed for bankruptcy protection with nearly $60,000 in consumer debt. Among the unpaid bills are $4,500 in medical*expenses

Read more here: 'Obamacare' plaintiff Mary Brown bankrupt with medical bills | Midwest Voices

So who gets to pay Mary Browns unpaid medical bills?

The rest of us.

So while you're telling me I don't have a right to dip into your pocket, you're advocating you dipping into mine.

tell me how much you got billed for. I'll send you a check.

Every time a Mary Brown doesn't pay her bill, that cost gets passed on to the rest of the market. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Don't get glib just because you have no defense against the truth.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So this does not mean people are refusing to buy anything?
???
I refuted your argument by pointing out the premise is wrong. You want to say that health insurance is indispensible for health. It is not.

45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance

Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.

Statistics disagree with you.

Think about that number. Forty Five THOUSAND a year.

Thats FIFTEEN 9/11's every year!

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

We're willing to spend 514 billion dollars to avenge 3,000 people but not a dime to save 45,000 a year?

How many people have died every year with healthcare coverage?

Vidi over here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Vidi]

Statistics disagree with you.

Think about that number. Forty Five THOUSAND a year.

Thats FIFTEEN 9/11's every year!

Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM

We're willing to spend 514 billion dollars to avenge 3,000 people but not a dime to save 45,000 a year?

How many people have died every year with healthcare coverage?

Vidi over here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And did you have a rational point to go with your silly statement?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How many people have died every year with healthcare coverage?

Vidi over here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And did you have a rational point to go with your silly statement?

Yes I do have a point, guess it was above your comprehension level.
Let me simplify it for you. When you say "45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance" Just because a person has healthcare coverage does not mean that will keep them alive. So are you going to answer my question?

How many people have died who had healthcare coverage?

 

[saveliberty]

We have similiar problems with car insurance. People choose to drive without it. The judges sometime levy a fine against them, but other times do not. Something about hurting the poor. So I guess the government is really just targeting lower middle class people in this healthcare law. Forcing them into poverty or underwriting the costs of coverage for the poor. You should be so proud Mr. Obama.

 

[Vidi]

Vidi over here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And did you have a rational point to go with your silly statement?

Above my comprehension level?
You're expecting me to have ESP now?

Don't be coy next time. Just say what you want to say.

Yes I do have a point, guess it was above your comprehension level.
Let me simplify it for you. When you say "45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance" Just because a person has healthcare coverage does not mean that will keep them alive. So are you going to answer my question?

How many people have died who had healthcare coverage?

Agreed, health coverage doesn't guarantee life. Just as wearing a seat belt doesn't guarantee you'll survive a crash.

But without it, your chances diminish greatly.

So how many people are saved by seat belts every year?

 

[Vidi]

We have similiar problems with car insurance. People choose to drive without it. The judges sometime levy a fine against them, but other times do not. Something about hurting the poor. So I guess the government is really just targeting lower middle class people in this healthcare law. Forcing them into poverty or underwriting the costs of coverage for the poor. You should be so proud Mr. Obama.

Misplaced blame is the first sign of blind partisanship.

Thank the Mary Browns of the country. Hypocrits who claim they don't need health insurance, then ask fit debt forgiveness when they can't take care of their responsibilities.

In other words, you bums want FREE HEALTH CARE!

Damn, I miss REAL Conservatives, who truly believed in personal responsibility. These NeoCons

 

[saveliberty]

We have similiar problems with car insurance. People choose to drive without it. The judges sometime levy a fine against them, but other times do not. Something about hurting the poor. So I guess the government is really just targeting lower middle class people in this healthcare law. Forcing them into poverty or underwriting the costs of coverage for the poor. You should be so proud Mr. Obama.

Misplaced blame is the first sign of blind partisanship.

Thank the Mary Browns of the country. Hypocrits who claim they don't need health insurance, then ask fit debt forgiveness when they can't take care of their responsibilities.

In other words, you bums want FREE HEALTH CARE!

Damn, I miss REAL Conservatives, who truly believed in personal responsibility. These NeoCons

Pointing out reality is not partisan. I have health insurance which I pay for in part and my employer the other. Enlarging Medicaid would seem to be your free health care. Who decided to do that again?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And did you have a rational point to go with your silly statement?

Above my comprehension level?
You're expecting me to have ESP now?

Don't be coy next time. Just say what you want to say.

Yes I do have a point, guess it was above your comprehension level.
Let me simplify it for you. When you say "45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance" Just because a person has healthcare coverage does not mean that will keep them alive. So are you going to answer my question?

How many people have died who had healthcare coverage?

Agreed, health coverage doesn't guarantee life. Just as wearing a seat belt doesn't guarantee you'll survive a crash.

But without it, your chances diminish greatly.

So how many people are saved by seat belts every year?

How many people are killed or hurt because of wearing a seat belt? I've been in plenty of wrecks that I should have been killed in that I never wore a seat belt.

 

[dblack]

What will history think of the likes of Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito? America moves back and forth, this group of four move only when the corporate pied piper plays.

Striking this bill down will be a definitive blow against corporatism. They'll be heroes in my book, assuming it is struck down. I'm not convinced it's a given just yet.

 

[Vidi]

Above my comprehension level?
You're expecting me to have ESP now?

Don't be coy next time. Just say what you want to say.

Yes I do have a point, guess it was above your comprehension level.
Let me simplify it for you. When you say "45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance" Just because a person has healthcare coverage does not mean that will keep them alive. So are you going to answer my question?

How many people have died who had healthcare coverage?

Agreed, health coverage doesn't guarantee life. Just as wearing a seat belt doesn't guarantee you'll survive a crash.

But without it, your chances diminish greatly.

So how many people are saved by seat belts every year?

How many people are killed or hurt because of wearing a seat belt? I've been in plenty of wrecks that I should have been killed in that I never wore a seat belt.

Plenty of wrecks?

Remind me to never ride with you driving if car accidents are so comman for you you consider it "plenty"


Ok let me change tactics here:

Do you agree that I should not be able to reach into your pocket and take money out?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Agreed, health coverage doesn't guarantee life. Just as wearing a seat belt doesn't guarantee you'll survive a crash.

But without it, your chances diminish greatly.

So how many people are saved by seat belts every year?

How many people are killed or hurt because of wearing a seat belt? I've been in plenty of wrecks that I should have been killed in that I never wore a seat belt.

Plenty of wrecks?


Remind me to never ride with you driving if car accidents are so comman for you you consider it "plenty"

Most were not my fault.Some were job related.

 

[Vidi]

Sorry my edit came late.

Can we agree that I shouldn't be allowed to reach into your pocket and take money out for my bills?

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, they do.

People just like Mary Brown, who is the actual lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court Case against the affordable care act.

She was living a happy life too. So much do that not only did she agree with you but she went to court to stop that evil man in the White House.

And then the strangest thing happened.



So who gets to pay Mary Browns unpaid medical bills?

The rest of us.

So while you're telling me I don't have a right to dip into your pocket, you're advocating you dipping into mine.

tell me how much you got billed for. I'll send you a check.

Every time a Mary Brown doesn't pay her bill, that cost gets passed on to the rest of the market. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Don't get glib just because you have no defense against the truth.

That goes for everything else as well. Every time someone shoplifts at the local A&P the rest of us pay for it. Every time someone in your town gets in an accident and/or sues the rest of us pay for it. Every time someone files bankruptcy on credit card debt, the rest of us pay for it.
Why should medical care be different from anything else? We aren't demanding that people be mandated to shop at supermarkets to offset the losses from shoplifting. It is a loser argument.

 

[oreo]

tell me how much you got billed for. I'll send you a check.

Every time a Mary Brown doesn't pay her bill, that cost gets passed on to the rest of the market. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Don't get glib just because you have no defense against the truth.

That goes for everything else as well. Every time someone shoplifts at the local A&P the rest of us pay for it. Every time someone in your town gets in an accident and/or sues the rest of us pay for it. Every time someone files bankruptcy on credit card debt, the rest of us pay for it.
Why should medical care be different from anything else? We aren't demanding that people be mandated to shop at supermarkets to offset the losses from shoplifting. It is a loser argument.

You're missing the point--the question is can the Federal Government be the one who mandates that everyone pay for medical insurance--or get penalized. States can do it--as we see Romneycare was never challenged in court--but the Federal Government is limited by the U.S. Constitution.

It's clear that all the justices are very concerned about the mandate--and more than likely will strike Obamacare down. Their discussion today revolved around if they strike down the mandate--what parts of Obamacare could be saved. Here is the final day of discussion on this issue.

Justices weigh health law's fate if no insurance mandate

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Sorry my edit came late.

Can we agree that I shouldn't be allowed to reach into your pocket and take money out for my bills?

Why should you I pay my bills. My second ex wife had a miscarriage while we were visiting her mother in Virginia. At the time I had no insurance but I set up payment for the time she spent in the Hospital and paid the bill myself. Why do I need your money when I can take care of myself?