Secularists...Hoist By Their Own Petard

[Synthaholic]

"The Founders believed in Freedom, all right. Unless you were poor Sally Hemings getting her 15 year old Cherry popped by Thomas Jefferson because she had the bad luck to be his dead-wife's half sister AND his property."

There is no proof of this lie, yet it is regularly spread by Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, who use attacks on the Founders as a proxy for their hatred of America.

By all accounts, Jefferson’s sexual relationship with Hemings spanned several decades, beginning when Hemings was a teenager and Jefferson was in his 40s. It was not, in any sense of the word, consensual: Hemings was a child, and Jefferson literally owned her; she was not in any position to give or withhold consent. What Jefferson did to Hemings was rape.

Thomas Jefferson spent years raping Sally Hemings. A new novel calls it a love story.

You suck at facts.

What would have happened if Thomas Jefferson had released Ms Hemmings, et al in Virginia, circa 1780?

She would have no longer been one of his slaves.

Show me where Thomas Jefferson was happy about about the institution of slavery?

His happiness has nothing to do with it.

I'll bet he was happy to get some young Black ass whenever he wanted it.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

"The Founders believed in Freedom, all right. Unless you were poor Sally Hemings getting her 15 year old Cherry popped by Thomas Jefferson because she had the bad luck to be his dead-wife's half sister AND his property."

There is no proof of this lie, yet it is regularly spread by Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, who use attacks on the Founders as a proxy for their hatred of America.

By all accounts, Jefferson’s sexual relationship with Hemings spanned several decades, beginning when Hemings was a teenager and Jefferson was in his 40s. It was not, in any sense of the word, consensual: Hemings was a child, and Jefferson literally owned her; she was not in any position to give or withhold consent. What Jefferson did to Hemings was rape.

Thomas Jefferson spent years raping Sally Hemings. A new novel calls it a love story.

You suck at facts.

Just like global warming.....the big lie is settled.......

By those who don't suck at facts....because they don't seem to care about facts.

Climate Change is a fact, not a lie.

I don't recall using the term Climate Change.

But just in case you are wondering....AGW is a myth.

 

[Contumacious]

The Founders wouldn't be welcome in a secular nation, would they.

the founders were largely deists.

and they wanted religious nutters as far away from government as possible....

but thanks for your usual cut and paste.

What proof do you have that they wanted religion far away from government.

Please don't cite the first amendment.

It says "no laws respecting the establishment of religion".....guess what.

States could and did establish religions.....most of those colonies were divided along lines of religion and they were allowed to keep that.

And that is the beauty of the Constitution as a piece of diplomacy between the states! Again it demonstrates itself as a political tool, a 'subtle' agreement, a propaganda piece to unite the colonies!

Yes, most states had a " state" religion, but few were identical! And no one group of christian wanted a different brand of Christianity dictating to them.

The Constitution said that it would not submit to any religious group and hence you could practice your brand of Christianity as the way you see it without fear of the federal government!

The major part that most modern Christians miss is that in the day of our forefathers, the different christian sects were bitter rivals. They would start fights based on their different understandings of their bible. Hell, some did not have the exact copy of the bible! To unite this group of self-righteous Christians, the constitution declared not to take a side in the argument. In other words, play a neutral role in the argument.

Many people like to claim that we are a christian nation. If so, then it is a nondenominational one at best. Which means no christian group has a claim over it.

But, if this is the case. That is, our nation is founded on nondenominational christian principles, then it can not recognize any other christian group as its model!

You may think this is not a problem, until you try to find the bible that our government supposedly. Turns out, there is no bible mandated by the federal government. It can not by way of the first amendment!!

Hence, America is not a christian nation. It is a nonreligious secular nation. Nonreligious through compromise by the various different state religions that could not see eye to eye to form a simple compromise on which denomination the government should follow!

Yes, Christians did help found it. No, it is not christian because the various denominations at the time did not trust each other!

Thomas Jefferson Wall Of Separation Letter


Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

 

[Synthaholic]

"The Founders believed in Freedom, all right. Unless you were poor Sally Hemings getting her 15 year old Cherry popped by Thomas Jefferson because she had the bad luck to be his dead-wife's half sister AND his property."

There is no proof of this lie, yet it is regularly spread by Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, who use attacks on the Founders as a proxy for their hatred of America.

By all accounts, Jefferson’s sexual relationship with Hemings spanned several decades, beginning when Hemings was a teenager and Jefferson was in his 40s. It was not, in any sense of the word, consensual: Hemings was a child, and Jefferson literally owned her; she was not in any position to give or withhold consent. What Jefferson did to Hemings was rape.

Thomas Jefferson spent years raping Sally Hemings. A new novel calls it a love story.

You suck at facts.

There are no such accounts

Except the other 99% of accounts. Like with Climate Change, you ignore the overwhelming historical consensus and choose to believe the extreme minority view that isn't backed up by anything resembling scholarly research..

 

[Synthaholic]

David Limbaugh

Rush's little brother.

When they can't refute the facts....lying imbeciles complain about the messenger.

Raise your paw.

Who says they're facts?

 

[SmokeALib]

"The Founders believed in Freedom, all right. Unless you were poor Sally Hemings getting her 15 year old Cherry popped by Thomas Jefferson because she had the bad luck to be his dead-wife's half sister AND his property."

There is no proof of this lie, yet it is regularly spread by Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, who use attacks on the Founders as a proxy for their hatred of America.

By all accounts, Jefferson’s sexual relationship with Hemings spanned several decades, beginning when Hemings was a teenager and Jefferson was in his 40s. It was not, in any sense of the word, consensual: Hemings was a child, and Jefferson literally owned her; she was not in any position to give or withhold consent. What Jefferson did to Hemings was rape.

Thomas Jefferson spent years raping Sally Hemings. A new novel calls it a love story.

You suck at facts.

There are no such accounts

Except the other 99% of accounts. Like with Climate Change, you ignore the overwhelming historical consensus and choose to believe the extreme minority view that isn't backed up by anything resembling scholarly research..

Global warming is taxpayer fraud.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The Founders wouldn't be welcome in a secular nation, would they.

the founders were largely deists.

and they wanted religious nutters as far away from government as possible....

but thanks for your usual cut and paste.

What proof do you have that they wanted religion far away from government.

Please don't cite the first amendment.

It says "no laws respecting the establishment of religion".....guess what.

States could and did establish religions.....most of those colonies were divided along lines of religion and they were allowed to keep that.

And that is the beauty of the Constitution as a piece of diplomacy between the states! Again it demonstrates itself as a political tool, a 'subtle' agreement, a propaganda piece to unite the colonies!

Yes, most states had a " state" religion, but few were identical! And no one group of christian wanted a different brand of Christianity dictating to them.

The Constitution said that it would not submit to any religious group and hence you could practice your brand of Christianity as the way you see it without fear of the federal government!

The major part that most modern Christians miss is that in the day of our forefathers, the different christian sects were bitter rivals. They would start fights based on their different understandings of their bible. Hell, some did not have the exact copy of the bible! To unite this group of self-righteous Christians, the constitution declared not to take a side in the argument. In other words, play a neutral role in the argument.

Many people like to claim that we are a christian nation. If so, then it is a nondenominational one at best. Which means no christian group has a claim over it.

But, if this is the case. That is, our nation is founded on nondenominational christian principles, then it can not recognize any other christian group as its model!

You may think this is not a problem, until you try to find the bible that our government supposedly. Turns out, there is no bible mandated by the federal government. It can not by way of the first amendment!!

Hence, America is not a christian nation. It is a nonreligious secular nation. Nonreligious through compromise by the various different state religions that could not see eye to eye to form a simple compromise on which denomination the government should follow!

Yes, Christians did help found it. No, it is not christian because the various denominations at the time did not trust each other!

While I can agree with your post...it says nothing about mine.

Jillhag is incorrect in her statement.

What the founders wanted was to avoid a federal religion (like their forefathers had escaped from). But don't kid yourself. They didn't come here looking for freedom of religion. They came here to practice it and to have the state help them. They burned people at the stake and hanged them legally all in the name of "religion" (or theology as the case may be).

And the Constitution did nothing to stop them from doing it at a state level.

 

[Synthaholic]

Free lunches do exist?

Of course they do. Come on over and I'll make you a sandwich. No strings attached.

Yeah....but what is that strange smell coming from the basement....?

Why don't you ask him where he got the stuff to make a sandwich.

You might get it for free....but the stuff didn't just show up.

It's likely his mother got it from a Wal-Mart.....and I don't expect that was free.

I didn't say it was free for me to supply his free lunch.

 

[Contumacious]

"The Founders believed in Freedom, all right. Unless you were poor Sally Hemings getting her 15 year old Cherry popped by Thomas Jefferson because she had the bad luck to be his dead-wife's half sister AND his property."

There is no proof of this lie, yet it is regularly spread by Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, who use attacks on the Founders as a proxy for their hatred of America.

By all accounts, Jefferson’s sexual relationship with Hemings spanned several decades, beginning when Hemings was a teenager and Jefferson was in his 40s. It was not, in any sense of the word, consensual: Hemings was a child, and Jefferson literally owned her; she was not in any position to give or withhold consent. What Jefferson did to Hemings was rape.

Thomas Jefferson spent years raping Sally Hemings. A new novel calls it a love story.

You suck at facts.

What would have happened if Thomas Jefferson had released Ms Hemmings, et al in Virginia, circa 1780?

She would have no longer been one of his slaves.

Show me where Thomas Jefferson was happy about about the institution of slavery?

His happiness has nothing to do with it.

I'll bet he was happy to get some young Black ass whenever he wanted it.

Isn't it a fact that in 1780's Virginia, she would have been immediately captured, killed or become someone else's slave?

Isn't that an ADMISSION that Thomas Jefferson DID NOT support the institution of slavery?


.

 

[jillian]

The Founders wouldn't be welcome in a secular nation, would they.

the founders were largely deists.

and they wanted religious nutters as far away from government as possible....

but thanks for your usual cut and paste.

What proof do you have that they wanted religion far away from government.

Please don't cite the first amendment.

It says "no laws respecting the establishment of religion".....guess what.

States could and did establish religions.....most of those colonies were divided along lines of religion and they were allowed to keep that.

And that is the beauty of the Constitution as a piece of diplomacy between the states! Again it demonstrates itself as a political tool, a 'subtle' agreement, a propaganda piece to unite the colonies!

Yes, most states had a " state" religion, but few were identical! And no one group of christian wanted a different brand of Christianity dictating to them.

The Constitution said that it would not submit to any religious group and hence you could practice your brand of Christianity as the way you see it without fear of the federal government!

The major part that most modern Christians miss is that in the day of our forefathers, the different christian sects were bitter rivals. They would start fights based on their different understandings of their bible. Hell, some did not have the exact copy of the bible! To unite this group of self-righteous Christians, the constitution declared not to take a side in the argument. In other words, play a neutral role in the argument.

Many people like to claim that we are a christian nation. If so, then it is a nondenominational one at best. Which means no christian group has a claim over it.

But, if this is the case. That is, our nation is founded on nondenominational christian principles, then it can not recognize any other christian group as its model!

You may think this is not a problem, until you try to find the bible that our government supposedly. Turns out, there is no bible mandated by the federal government. It can not by way of the first amendment!!

Hence, America is not a christian nation. It is a nonreligious secular nation. Nonreligious through compromise by the various different state religions that could not see eye to eye to form a simple compromise on which denomination the government should follow!

Yes, Christians did help found it. No, it is not christian because the various denominations at the time did not trust each other!

While I can agree with your post...it says nothing about mine.

Jillhag is incorrect in her statement.

What the founders wanted was to avoid a federal religion (like their forefathers had escaped from). But don't kid yourself. They didn't come here looking for freedom of religion. They came here to practice it and to have the state help them. They burned people at the stake and hanged them legally all in the name of "religion" (or theology as the case may be).

And the Constitution did nothing to stop them from doing it at a state level.

pretend constitutionalist rightwingnut scum are funny

 

[Synthaholic]

This is what I googled...

"Images for michelle obama school lunch"

That one of the pics.....

Your Google results are based on what you have previously searched for. If you're a wingnut, you'll get results from other wingnuts.

Just another subject you're ignorant about.

Get used to it: I'm never wrong.


"Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!)

Read more: Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!) - The Political Insider

More wingnut results from a wingnut Googler.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Free lunches do exist?

Of course they do. Come on over and I'll make you a sandwich. No strings attached.

Yeah....but what is that strange smell coming from the basement....?

Why don't you ask him where he got the stuff to make a sandwich.

You might get it for free....but the stuff didn't just show up.

It's likely his mother got it from a Wal-Mart.....and I don't expect that was free.

I didn't say it was free for me to supply his free lunch.

You said free lunches exist.

Apparently, you (like most left wingers) see it as free as long as it means free to you.

Just like "freedom" to most right wingers means "freedom to enforce my point of view".

 

[CremeBrulee]

"School kids are blaming Michelle Obama for their ‘gross’ school lunches

View image on Twitter

Follow
Hunter Whitney ‎@huntwhitney4


Had a very #healthylunch today. The apple definitely made up for the "mystery mush" #ThanksMichelleObama

6:30 PM - 13 Nov 2014

• 
  
• 
  586586 Retweets
  
• 
  476476 likes
• School kids are blaming Michelle Obama for their ‘gross’ school lunches

Horrors Continue Under Michelle O’s Lunch Rules
Empty chicken nuggets, ‘thimble-sized’ portions, rotten fruit
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Horrors Continue Under Michelle O’s Lunch Rules

Because the tray/buffet lunches were soooo tasty before. When I was in school people rarely ate the school prepared food. You could leave for lunch and eat wherever you wanted or the catered Subway, Pizza Hut, Burger King, etc that was brought in. I'm not sure the campuses are open anymore but I know the schools have more restaurants that are involved in preparing the meals.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The Founders wouldn't be welcome in a secular nation, would they.

the founders were largely deists.

and they wanted religious nutters as far away from government as possible....

but thanks for your usual cut and paste.

What proof do you have that they wanted religion far away from government.

Please don't cite the first amendment.

It says "no laws respecting the establishment of religion".....guess what.

States could and did establish religions.....most of those colonies were divided along lines of religion and they were allowed to keep that.

And that is the beauty of the Constitution as a piece of diplomacy between the states! Again it demonstrates itself as a political tool, a 'subtle' agreement, a propaganda piece to unite the colonies!

Yes, most states had a " state" religion, but few were identical! And no one group of christian wanted a different brand of Christianity dictating to them.

The Constitution said that it would not submit to any religious group and hence you could practice your brand of Christianity as the way you see it without fear of the federal government!

The major part that most modern Christians miss is that in the day of our forefathers, the different christian sects were bitter rivals. They would start fights based on their different understandings of their bible. Hell, some did not have the exact copy of the bible! To unite this group of self-righteous Christians, the constitution declared not to take a side in the argument. In other words, play a neutral role in the argument.

Many people like to claim that we are a christian nation. If so, then it is a nondenominational one at best. Which means no christian group has a claim over it.

But, if this is the case. That is, our nation is founded on nondenominational christian principles, then it can not recognize any other christian group as its model!

You may think this is not a problem, until you try to find the bible that our government supposedly. Turns out, there is no bible mandated by the federal government. It can not by way of the first amendment!!

Hence, America is not a christian nation. It is a nonreligious secular nation. Nonreligious through compromise by the various different state religions that could not see eye to eye to form a simple compromise on which denomination the government should follow!

Yes, Christians did help found it. No, it is not christian because the various denominations at the time did not trust each other!

While I can agree with your post...it says nothing about mine.

Jillhag is incorrect in her statement.

What the founders wanted was to avoid a federal religion (like their forefathers had escaped from). But don't kid yourself. They didn't come here looking for freedom of religion. They came here to practice it and to have the state help them. They burned people at the stake and hanged them legally all in the name of "religion" (or theology as the case may be).

And the Constitution did nothing to stop them from doing it at a state level.

pretend constitutionalist rightwingnut scum are funny

You are are rightwingnut ?

And you really are not that funny.

Sorry you can't ingest history and understand....can't help that.

 

[Synthaholic]

This is what I googled...

"Images for michelle obama school lunch"

That one of the pics.....

Your Google results are based on what you have previously searched for. If you're a wingnut, you'll get results from other wingnuts.

Just another subject you're ignorant about.

Get used to it: I'm never wrong.


"Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!)

Read more: Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!) - The Political Insider

More wingnut results from a wingnut Googler.

I Googled Michelle Obama school lunch and got this:

 

[Sun Devil 92]

This is what I googled...

"Images for michelle obama school lunch"

That one of the pics.....

Your Google results are based on what you have previously searched for. If you're a wingnut, you'll get results from other wingnuts.

Just another subject you're ignorant about.

Get used to it: I'm never wrong.


"Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!)

Read more: Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!) - The Political Insider

More wingnut results from a wingnut Googler.

Wingnut ?

XXXXholic is right.

 

[CremeBrulee]

This is what I googled...

"Images for michelle obama school lunch"

That one of the pics.....

Your Google results are based on what you have previously searched for. If you're a wingnut, you'll get results from other wingnuts.

Just another subject you're ignorant about.

Get used to it: I'm never wrong.


"Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!)

Read more: Families Are Outraged to See Michelle Obama-Approved School Lunches (YUCK!) - The Political Insider

More wingnut results from a wingnut Googler.

I Googled Michelle Obama school lunch and got this:

I would eat that.

 

[Synthaholic]

Free lunches do exist?

Of course they do. Come on over and I'll make you a sandwich. No strings attached.

Yeah....but what is that strange smell coming from the basement....?

Why don't you ask him where he got the stuff to make a sandwich.

You might get it for free....but the stuff didn't just show up.

It's likely his mother got it from a Wal-Mart.....and I don't expect that was free.

I didn't say it was free for me to supply his free lunch.

You said free lunches exist.

Apparently, you (like most left wingers) see it as free as long as it means free to you.

Just like "freedom" to most right wingers means "freedom to enforce my point of view".

I just finished saying that it isn't free for me to provide that free lunch for him.

You're kinda stupid, aren't you?

 

[amrchaos]

The Founders wouldn't be welcome in a secular nation, would they.

the founders were largely deists.

and they wanted religious nutters as far away from government as possible....

but thanks for your usual cut and paste.

What proof do you have that they wanted religion far away from government.

Please don't cite the first amendment.

It says "no laws respecting the establishment of religion".....guess what.

States could and did establish religions.....most of those colonies were divided along lines of religion and they were allowed to keep that.

And that is the beauty of the Constitution as a piece of diplomacy between the states! Again it demonstrates itself as a political tool, a 'subtle' agreement, a propaganda piece to unite the colonies!

Yes, most states had a " state" religion, but few were identical! And no one group of christian wanted a different brand of Christianity dictating to them.

The Constitution said that it would not submit to any religious group and hence you could practice your brand of Christianity as the way you see it without fear of the federal government!

The major part that most modern Christians miss is that in the day of our forefathers, the different christian sects were bitter rivals. They would start fights based on their different understandings of their bible. Hell, some did not have the exact copy of the bible! To unite this group of self-righteous Christians, the constitution declared not to take a side in the argument. In other words, play a neutral role in the argument.

Many people like to claim that we are a christian nation. If so, then it is a nondenominational one at best. Which means no christian group has a claim over it.

But, if this is the case. That is, our nation is founded on nondenominational christian principles, then it can not recognize any other christian group as its model!

You may think this is not a problem, until you try to find the bible that our government supposedly. Turns out, there is no bible mandated by the federal government. It can not by way of the first amendment!!

Hence, America is not a christian nation. It is a nonreligious secular nation. Nonreligious through compromise by the various different state religions that could not see eye to eye to form a simple compromise on which denomination the government should follow!

Yes, Christians did help found it. No, it is not christian because the various denominations at the time did not trust each other!

Thomas Jefferson Wall Of Separation Letter


Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

So, are you saying Our government is a vehicle for Christianity?

If so, which denomination?

PS--you could search our forefathers works, letters and use their opinions as much as you like. The government is secular through compromise. Not because deists just thought secularism is idea. Because the various christian groups did not trust one being more powerful than another..

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


At the time of ratification of the Constitution, ten of the thirteen colonies had some provision recognizing Christianity as either the official, or the recommended religion in their state constitutions.

a. From the 1790 Massachusetts Constitution, written by John Adams, includes: [the] good order and preservation of civil government essentially depend(s) upon piety, religion, and morality…by the institution of public worship of God and of the public instruction in piety, religion, and morality…”Constitution of Massachusetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the US Constitution was designed to stamp that out.

From the MA Constitution of 1780:

Article I. Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:

"I, A.B., do declare that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth; and that I am seized and possessed, in my own right, of the property required by the constitution, as one qualification for the office or place to which I am elected..."