Sen Joe McCarthy: American Patriot and Hero

[Cecilie1200]

PC has an epic fail, and CeCelie1200 and CrusaderFrank have been torn apart.

All your ranting and chanting, you three stooges, does not change that you have epically failed.

Day 6: Where's the Footnote. One Footnote. Just one (1).

I'm curious. Just how high are you prepared to count? 'Cause you know he's never going to answer you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC has an epic fail, and CeCelie1200 and CrusaderFrank have been torn apart.

All your ranting and chanting, you three stooges, does not change that you have epically failed.

Day 6: Where's the Footnote. One Footnote. Just one (1).

I'm curious. Just how high are you prepared to count? 'Cause you know he's never going to answer you.

Cecilie is correct, you know.

You're dealing with a cypher whose lonliness is assuaged by the appearance of participating in an intellectual endeavor, while, in actuallity, he simply denies, refuses dispositive evidence and documentation, and casts aspirsions...

He knows knothing, and learns even less.

On the other hand, as the number who read a thread far outdistances the number who post, this know-nothing is the perfect foil for our revealing the truth about his period in American history...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You three remind me of some of the fascist journalists and propaganda people in Italy during the mid-1920s. They were awful.

Frank: that was dealt with already. Mark can fight his own battles, and has been, I heard, getting his ass kicked elsewhere. Anybody can read the book on their own, study the footnotes and conclusions, and realize the work is a hoax.

Jake what was it like in Italy during the 20's?

Mark's been getting his ass kicked, you mean like you kicked it where you had nothing in response to any of his challenges.

Maybe you can link up to some of this imaginary asskicking, but you still owe me the one (1) footnote

 

[HUGGY]

Aren't McCarthy fan club memberships kinda a tough sell to a bunch of communist supporters that all shop at Walmart?




You do know that if Walmart existed in 1955 McCarthy would have all of thier employees investigated for helping the Red Chinese...Right?

He'd probably have files on all you traitors that shop there too!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Aren't McCarthy fan club memberships kinda a tough sell to a bunch of communist supporters that all shop at Walmart?




You do know that if Walmart existed in 1955 McCarthy would have all of thier employees investigated for helping the Red Chinese...Right?

He'd probably have files on all you traitors that shop there too!

Well, Hugs, now that you mention Wal-Mart, here's a little remedial for you:


1. Older socialists dreamed of a world in which all classes would share in the fruits of the world. Yet when a permutation of this emerges, it is resented if it represents capitalism. An institution beyond the imaginings of socialists of old: Wal-Mart. Within Wal-Mart we see a cornucopia of goods designed to improve human well-being, at prices that make them affordable for all. Millions of jobs are created, and prosperity is spread throughout areas where it was sorely needed. An entity owned by share-holders, people of mostly moderate incomes who have invested their savings, worker-capitalists.

[Wal-Mart owns 8,300 stores, of which 4,000 are in 44 different countries. Its 2010 revenues are expected to top $500 billion. Putting Wal-Mart's revenues in perspective, they exceed the 2009 GDP of all but 18 of the world's 181 countries. Why is Wal-Mart so successful? Millions of people voluntarily enter their stores and part with their money in exchange for Wal-Mart's products and services. In order for that to happen, Wal-Mart and millions of other profit-motivated businesses must please people.
http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2010/06/16/economic_myths,_fallacies_and_stupidity]

https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2007&month=05



2. Why is Wal-Mart so successful? Millions of people voluntarily enter their stores and part with their money in exchange for Wal-Mart's products and services. In order for that to happen, Wal-Mart and millions of other profit-motivated businesses must please people.Compare our level of satisfaction with the services of those "in it just for the money and profits" to those in it to serve the public as opposed to earning profits. A major non-profit service provider is the public education establishment that delivers primary and secondary education at nearly a trillion-dollar annual cost. Public education is a major source of complaints about poor services that in many cases constitute nothing less than gross fraud.

If Wal-Mart, or any of the millions of producers who are in it for money and profits, were to deliver the same low-quality services, they would be out of business, but not public schools. Why? People who produce public education get their pay, pay raises and perks whether customers are satisfied or not. They are not motivated by profits and therefore under considerably less pressure to please customers. They use government to take customer money, in the form of taxes.

The U. S. Postal Service, state motor vehicle departments and other government agencies also have the taxing power of government to get money and therefore are less diligent about pleasing customers. You can bet the rent money that if Wal-Mart and other businesses had the power to take our money by force, they would be less interested and willing to please us.

The big difference between entities that serve us well and those who do not lies in what motivates them. Wal-Mart and millions of other businesses are profit-motivated whereas government schools, USPS and state motor vehicle departments are not.

In the market, when a firm fails to please its customers and fails to earn a profit, it goes bankrupt, making those resources available to another that might do better. That's unless government steps in to bail it out. Bailouts send the message to continue doing a poor job of pleasing customers and husbanding resources. Government-owned nonprofit entities are immune to the ruthless market discipline of being forced to please customers. The same can be said of businesses that receive government subsidies.

The ruthlessness of the market discipline, which forces firms to please customers and thereby earn profits, goes a long way toward explaining hostility toward free market capitalism.
Townhall.com::Home::About US

 

[HUGGY]

Aren't McCarthy fan club memberships kinda a tough sell to a bunch of communist supporters that all shop at Walmart?




You do know that if Walmart existed in 1955 McCarthy would have all of thier employees investigated for helping the Red Chinese...Right?

He'd probably have files on all you traitors that shop there too!

Well, Hugs, now that you mention Wal-Mart, here's a little remedial for you:


1. Older socialists dreamed of a world in which all classes would share in the fruits of the world. Yet when a permutation of this emerges, it is resented if it represents capitalism. An institution beyond the imaginings of socialists of old: Wal-Mart. Within Wal-Mart we see a cornucopia of goods designed to improve human well-being, at prices that make them affordable for all. Millions of jobs are created, and prosperity is spread throughout areas where it was sorely needed. An entity owned by share-holders, people of mostly moderate incomes who have invested their savings, worker-capitalists.

[Wal-Mart owns 8,300 stores, of which 4,000 are in 44 different countries. Its 2010 revenues are expected to top $500 billion. Putting Wal-Mart's revenues in perspective, they exceed the 2009 GDP of all but 18 of the world's 181 countries. Why is Wal-Mart so successful? Millions of people voluntarily enter their stores and part with their money in exchange for Wal-Mart's products and services. In order for that to happen, Wal-Mart and millions of other profit-motivated businesses must please people.
http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2010/06/16/economic_myths,_fallacies_and_stupidity]

https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2007&month=05



2. Why is Wal-Mart so successful? Millions of people voluntarily enter their stores and part with their money in exchange for Wal-Mart's products and services. In order for that to happen, Wal-Mart and millions of other profit-motivated businesses must please people.Compare our level of satisfaction with the services of those "in it just for the money and profits" to those in it to serve the public as opposed to earning profits. A major non-profit service provider is the public education establishment that delivers primary and secondary education at nearly a trillion-dollar annual cost. Public education is a major source of complaints about poor services that in many cases constitute nothing less than gross fraud.

If Wal-Mart, or any of the millions of producers who are in it for money and profits, were to deliver the same low-quality services, they would be out of business, but not public schools. Why? People who produce public education get their pay, pay raises and perks whether customers are satisfied or not. They are not motivated by profits and therefore under considerably less pressure to please customers. They use government to take customer money, in the form of taxes.

The U. S. Postal Service, state motor vehicle departments and other government agencies also have the taxing power of government to get money and therefore are less diligent about pleasing customers. You can bet the rent money that if Wal-Mart and other businesses had the power to take our money by force, they would be less interested and willing to please us.

The big difference between entities that serve us well and those who do not lies in what motivates them. Wal-Mart and millions of other businesses are profit-motivated whereas government schools, USPS and state motor vehicle departments are not.

In the market, when a firm fails to please its customers and fails to earn a profit, it goes bankrupt, making those resources available to another that might do better. That's unless government steps in to bail it out. Bailouts send the message to continue doing a poor job of pleasing customers and husbanding resources. Government-owned nonprofit entities are immune to the ruthless market discipline of being forced to please customers. The same can be said of businesses that receive government subsidies.

The ruthlessness of the market discipline, which forces firms to please customers and thereby earn profits, goes a long way toward explaining hostility toward free market capitalism.
Townhall.com::Home::About US

How fortunate for Communist Red China!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Aren't McCarthy fan club memberships kinda a tough sell to a bunch of communist supporters that all shop at Walmart?




You do know that if Walmart existed in 1955 McCarthy would have all of thier employees investigated for helping the Red Chinese...Right?

He'd probably have files on all you traitors that shop there too!

Well, Hugs, now that you mention Wal-Mart, here's a little remedial for you:


1. Older socialists dreamed of a world in which all classes would share in the fruits of the world. Yet when a permutation of this emerges, it is resented if it represents capitalism. An institution beyond the imaginings of socialists of old: Wal-Mart. Within Wal-Mart we see a cornucopia of goods designed to improve human well-being, at prices that make them affordable for all. Millions of jobs are created, and prosperity is spread throughout areas where it was sorely needed. An entity owned by share-holders, people of mostly moderate incomes who have invested their savings, worker-capitalists.

[Wal-Mart owns 8,300 stores, of which 4,000 are in 44 different countries. Its 2010 revenues are expected to top $500 billion. Putting Wal-Mart's revenues in perspective, they exceed the 2009 GDP of all but 18 of the world's 181 countries. Why is Wal-Mart so successful? Millions of people voluntarily enter their stores and part with their money in exchange for Wal-Mart's products and services. In order for that to happen, Wal-Mart and millions of other profit-motivated businesses must please people.
http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2010/06/16/economic_myths,_fallacies_and_stupidity]

https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2007&month=05



2. Why is Wal-Mart so successful? Millions of people voluntarily enter their stores and part with their money in exchange for Wal-Mart's products and services. In order for that to happen, Wal-Mart and millions of other profit-motivated businesses must please people.Compare our level of satisfaction with the services of those "in it just for the money and profits" to those in it to serve the public as opposed to earning profits. A major non-profit service provider is the public education establishment that delivers primary and secondary education at nearly a trillion-dollar annual cost. Public education is a major source of complaints about poor services that in many cases constitute nothing less than gross fraud.

If Wal-Mart, or any of the millions of producers who are in it for money and profits, were to deliver the same low-quality services, they would be out of business, but not public schools. Why? People who produce public education get their pay, pay raises and perks whether customers are satisfied or not. They are not motivated by profits and therefore under considerably less pressure to please customers. They use government to take customer money, in the form of taxes.

The U. S. Postal Service, state motor vehicle departments and other government agencies also have the taxing power of government to get money and therefore are less diligent about pleasing customers. You can bet the rent money that if Wal-Mart and other businesses had the power to take our money by force, they would be less interested and willing to please us.

The big difference between entities that serve us well and those who do not lies in what motivates them. Wal-Mart and millions of other businesses are profit-motivated whereas government schools, USPS and state motor vehicle departments are not.

In the market, when a firm fails to please its customers and fails to earn a profit, it goes bankrupt, making those resources available to another that might do better. That's unless government steps in to bail it out. Bailouts send the message to continue doing a poor job of pleasing customers and husbanding resources. Government-owned nonprofit entities are immune to the ruthless market discipline of being forced to please customers. The same can be said of businesses that receive government subsidies.

The ruthlessness of the market discipline, which forces firms to please customers and thereby earn profits, goes a long way toward explaining hostility toward free market capitalism.
Townhall.com::Home::About US

How fortunate for Communist Red China!

No, how fortunate for the multitudes of Americans who work there and who shop there.

 

[Trajan]

in all fairness to woodrow wilson, lenin hated him with a passion. Wilson did denounced the communist party, harshly and with verve.

Lenin with the ready help of American converts and communists here,laid thre ground work at the 1920 Comintern meeting, he planned and carried out his greatest achievement here in the us by using the Communist labor Party and the Communist Party of America which became in 1929 the CPUSA. They were wholly owned creatures of Lenin, period. They thrived in the 20 and 30's.

The "red scare" started with Wilson his AG Alexander Palmer and a Texas democratic congressman named Martin Dies.

For those interested in just how far and wide the appeal was, 3 names you can google at will; William C Bulllitt, Pau H.l Douglas and Corliss Lamont. have at it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

in all fairness to woodrow wilson, lenin hated him with a passion. Wilson did denounced the communist party, harshly and with verve.

Lenin with the ready help of American converts and communists here,laid thre ground work at the 1920 Comintern meeting, he planned and carried out his greatest achievement here in the us by using the Communist labor Party and the Communist Party of America which became in 1929 the CPUSA. They were wholly owned creators of Lenin, Wilson period. They thrived in the 20 and 30's.

The "red scare" started with Wilson his AG Alexander Palmer and a Texas democratic congressman named Martin Dies.

For those interested in just how far and wide the appeal was, 3 names you can google at will; William C Bulllitt, Pau H.l Douglas and Corliss Lamont. have at it.

Hey, Tra...

"He welcomed the Russian Revolution, and agreed with the progressive animus toward corrupt and over mighty party bosses and autocratic monarchists which was “readily transferred to an overbearing Kaiser and a hegemonic war machine,” notes historian Morton Keller.

Wilson’s “Fourteen Points, his message of good luck to the ‘republic of labor unions’ in Russia . . . his warning to the Allied powers that their treatment of Bolshevik Russia would be the ‘acid test’ of their ‘good will . . . intelligence and unselfish sympathy’: these moves were immensely impressive to many leftists and progressives.

Trotsky sensed that the American president shared the Bolsheviks’ hatred of European imperialism; when Trotsky coined the now famous concept of the “fellow traveler,” he was referring to Wilson."
1919: Betrayal and the Birth of Modern Liberalism by Fred Siegel, City Journal 22 November 2009

 

[JakeStarkey]

Imperialism of "lesser" races and peoples were a good thing, and to despise such exploitation was a communist leaning. Are you moronic, PC, so you will follow your 'leader' wherever he goes despite all the crap that you are spewing?

You merely are a poster girl for the fascist reactionary right now. Streicher would have been proud of you.

 

[Father Time]

I'm curious why is anyone participating in this thread anymore? After skimming it just appears to consist of

"He was a witch hunter, you're dumb if you believe other wise"
"No he was a hero and you're dumb if you believe other wise"

 

[Gadawg73]

See what I mean about you sucking and not having a clue?

McCarthy was focused on Soviet infiltration at US State and had NOTHING TO DO WITH ZERO MOSTEL or Hollywood Producers.

You got duped, which happens sometimes so there's no shame in it. But after being told repeatedly you got duped and never bothering to take another look, well, shame on you.

You are absolutely right on the Hollywood witch hunt as that was before the McCarthy hearings and I stand corrected and I was totally wrong on that point.
But you do agree that was also a witch hunt, don't you?
How many officers in the Army did McCarthy flush out and how many did he accuse that were innocent? You claim he was focused on infiltration at State and that it is not so. Voice of America and others also.
But again, you corrected me on the Hollywood witch hunts as he was not a part of that but I saw no effort on his part to clear all of the falsely accused with his hearings. His hearings compounded the red scare hysteria as Truman and Eisenhower stated.

First, I apologize for my tone. My frustration is that I'm trying to tell people the Earth is round and so few hear it and just want to keep telling me they learned it was flat and that all they know.

I'm glad you saw part of the error regarding the Hollywood Blacklisting, but the far larger problem is how correct McCarthy was about Communist infiltration at State and it mattered because they steered US policy toward Stalin and Mao.

There was no McCarthy WITCH HUNT!!!! It never happened!

He asked Congress to investigate Communist Inflirtration at State and he was treated like a War Criminal for exposing it.

The "Red Scare" started because the ChioComs started the Korean War 4 months after McCarthy asked these questions for the first time. That's why Korea is the "Forgotten War"

I promise I'll try not to be a dick, but please, please, please try ti understand that the information is so very different from what we first were told.

Respect you Frank but there was a witch hunt.
You owe me no apologies. No worries.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Frank, the manner in which McCarthy made his accusations was completely unAmerican. Many innocent people were hurt (that has been proved). His own party pulled him down (none of you have addressed that). PC and her defenders here have made absolutely no case other than they are political wannabee hacks of the far right. That's fair, but it is also fair to point it out.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank, the manner in which McCarthy made his accusations was completely unAmerican. Many innocent people were hurt (that has been proved). His own party pulled him down (none of you have addressed that). PC and her defenders here have made absolutely no case other than they are political wannabee hacks of the far right. That's fair, but it is also fair to point it out.

Had you bothered to read the book you would know that he made a speech in Wheeling WV in Feb 1950 and said that he was informed there were 57 card carrying Communists At State, none of whom he named because he wanted Congress to open an investigation into the matter and it would not be fair to the accused had he named them.

Only when Tydings began their investigation of McCarthy, and not Communist infiltration of State, did he "Name names" and all the names he named were of State Dept workers in some way shape of fashion working for or with the Communists or in association with people who were.

Stay ignorant, Jake, it's your best feature

 

[Gadawg73]

Aren't McCarthy fan club memberships kinda a tough sell to a bunch of communist supporters that all shop at Walmart?




You do know that if Walmart existed in 1955 McCarthy would have all of thier employees investigated for helping the Red Chinese...Right?

He'd probably have files on all you traitors that shop there too!

You are ignorant Huggy.
Everyone knows Sam Walton was a communist spy in the State Department.
Or was that Woman's Wear Department?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Frank, the manner in which McCarthy made his accusations was completely unAmerican. Many innocent people were hurt (that has been proved). His own party pulled him down (none of you have addressed that). PC and her defenders here have made absolutely no case other than they are political wannabee hacks of the far right. That's fair, but it is also fair to point it out.

Had you bothered to read the book you would know that he made a speech in Wheeling WV in Feb 1950 and said that he was informed there were 57 card carrying Communists At State, none of whom he named because he wanted Congress to open an investigation into the matter and it would not be fair to the accused had he named them.

Only when Tydings began their investigation of McCarthy, and not Communist infiltration of State, did he "Name names" and all the names he named were of State Dept workers in some way shape of fashion working for or with the Communists or in association with people who were.

Stay ignorant, Jake, it's your best feature

Red herring, CF, Red herring. The rehabilitation of McCarthy though a hack work has failed, PC has failed, and you support the failure.

Check all of the reviews of the works, and many of them suggest the use of works and notes are substandard. So true.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank, the manner in which McCarthy made his accusations was completely unAmerican. Many innocent people were hurt (that has been proved). His own party pulled him down (none of you have addressed that). PC and her defenders here have made absolutely no case other than they are political wannabee hacks of the far right. That's fair, but it is also fair to point it out.

Had you bothered to read the book you would know that he made a speech in Wheeling WV in Feb 1950 and said that he was informed there were 57 card carrying Communists At State, none of whom he named because he wanted Congress to open an investigation into the matter and it would not be fair to the accused had he named them.

Only when Tydings began their investigation of McCarthy, and not Communist infiltration of State, did he "Name names" and all the names he named were of State Dept workers in some way shape of fashion working for or with the Communists or in association with people who were.

Stay ignorant, Jake, it's your best feature

Red herring, CF, Red herring. The rehabilitation of McCarthy though a hack work has failed, PC has failed, and you support the failure.

Check all of the reviews of the works, and many of them suggest the use of works and notes are substandard. So true.

Jake, you're a Political Flat Earther.

Sure, Jake, you didn't read the book but the reviews say the book is "substandard" LOL

How is quoting from FBI files "Substandard?

LOL

 

[Gadawg73]

Frank, the manner in which McCarthy made his accusations was completely unAmerican. Many innocent people were hurt (that has been proved). His own party pulled him down (none of you have addressed that). PC and her defenders here have made absolutely no case other than they are political wannabee hacks of the far right. That's fair, but it is also fair to point it out.

Had you bothered to read the book you would know that he made a speech in Wheeling WV in Feb 1950 and said that he was informed there were 57 card carrying Communists At State, none of whom he named because he wanted Congress to open an investigation into the matter and it would not be fair to the accused had he named them.

Only when Tydings began their investigation of McCarthy, and not Communist infiltration of State, did he "Name names" and all the names he named were of State Dept workers in some way shape of fashion working for or with the Communists or in association with people who were.

Stay ignorant, Jake, it's your best feature

"it would not be fair to the accused had he named them"
Come on Frank, you know that is total BS. There were no names on any list. And if there was any evidence then they would have announced it immediately for the PR he always sought.
"57 card carrying communists"
Who issued those cards Frank and did they get a decoder ring also?
Communists were in our government long before McCarthy came along and all he did was ruin many a stealth policy dating back to the teens.
Anyone with any knowledge of espionage and intelligence knows you attempt to TURN the spies first and you do that clandestinely and never hold hearings and news conferences announcing what is going on.
But that does not sell books for the naive and gullible.
No telling how many of our suits in the field were exposed by McCarthy and the fools that followed him. If you could have asked any intelligence agent of any form, shape or fashion from that era if they believe that McCarthy and his ways helped or ruined their work the answer would be in the negative. Intelligence wants NO PR, especially hearings on the Hill.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I never said I did not read the book. I said the footnotes do not support many of the contortions of the writer. Rochelle asked for examples. I referred him to the other reviews, and he believed that was not sufficient. Who cares what Mark thinks. He is unimportant other than as a researcher he offered some bogus conclusions. Read all of the reviews, Frank, and read Gadawag above. PC lost this OP on the first page.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank, the manner in which McCarthy made his accusations was completely unAmerican. Many innocent people were hurt (that has been proved). His own party pulled him down (none of you have addressed that). PC and her defenders here have made absolutely no case other than they are political wannabee hacks of the far right. That's fair, but it is also fair to point it out.

Had you bothered to read the book you would know that he made a speech in Wheeling WV in Feb 1950 and said that he was informed there were 57 card carrying Communists At State, none of whom he named because he wanted Congress to open an investigation into the matter and it would not be fair to the accused had he named them.

Only when Tydings began their investigation of McCarthy, and not Communist infiltration of State, did he "Name names" and all the names he named were of State Dept workers in some way shape of fashion working for or with the Communists or in association with people who were.

Stay ignorant, Jake, it's your best feature

"it would not be fair to the accused had he named them"
Come on Frank, you know that is total BS. There were no names on any list. And if there was any evidence then they would have announced it immediately for the PR he always sought.
"57 card carrying communists"
Who issued those cards Frank and did they get a decoder ring also?
Communists were in our government long before McCarthy came along and all he did was ruin many a stealth policy dating back to the teens.
Anyone with any knowledge of espionage and intelligence knows you attempt to TURN the spies first and you do that clandestinely and never hold hearings and news conferences announcing what is going on.
But that does not sell books for the naive and gullible.
No telling how many of our suits in the field were exposed by McCarthy and the fools that followed him. If you could have asked any intelligence agent of any form, shape or fashion from that era if they believe that McCarthy and his ways helped or ruined their work the answer would be in the negative. Intelligence wants NO PR, especially hearings on the Hill.

See, my main complaint about you is that you continue to read from a playbook that is 60 years old and was total fiction when it was written.

"Blacklisted" and other books have completely destroyed, with FBI files and Soviet cables, the entire notion of what we grew up learning about McCarthy.

When McCarthy made his speech in Wheeling in Feb 1950, Truman had already decided to protect Communist at State by not allowing ANY Congressional investigation and the Executive branch stopped rooting out the Comrades.

McCarthy had a list supplied to him by State with names of Card Carrying communists on it. Joe was a lawyer and knew he could not in good conscience release the names on the list that a whistleblower at State had provided him without the benefit of independent investigation.

That was all he was asking for was for Congress to be allowed to investigate the goings-on at State, that were now being protected by the Truman Administration!

That was it!

He asked for Congress to look into possible Communist infiltration at State!

You keep parroting crap back at me without any facts, just lies that you were taught