Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[alang1216]

The Catholic church is struggling to achieve a passing grade. To maintain a 'C', it's needed to reinterpret the meaning of the bibles.

For proof we have many on this board that refuse the latest or later interpretations.

Those are the Christians that Meri and Ding condemn for striving for an 'A' on their faithfully believing! And now M and D resent needing to be backsliders, in order to come off as sounding sane!

Too inside for me. I'll let you Christians fight it out in peace.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

People/citizens of faith are not only citizens of a nation, but are also citizens of the Kingdom of God. It is not only our right, but our duty to permeate the social, political, and economic realities within our governments.

Wrong – separation of church and state; it’s not a question, it’s a fact.

That the Christo-fascist right has contempt for this fact further demonstrates the arrogant authoritarianism of theists and the wisdom to codify in the Constitution the Framers’ mandate that church and state remain separate in defense of the rights and protected liberties of the people from that arrogant religious authoritarianism.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I've got a paper that says it was more than some.

False. As anyone who has taken mathematics knows, some can mean as many as all. Or as few as one.

But we know it wasn't all.

 

[ding]

False. As anyone who has taken mathematics knows, some can mean as many as all. Or as few as one.

But we know it wasn't all.

I think it offends your sensibilities to believe your belief didn't exist among the founding fathers.

 

[alang1216]

For me it is a statement of fact that my faith has enriched my life greatly. Faith in a higher power is a functional advantage and that's why it still exists today in overwhelming numbers. Is saying that condescending?

As alcohol has enriched mine (haven't tried heroine yet). I don't doubt your faith has enriched your life but it is condescending to say my life is not as rich as yours since I have no faith.

I think you should be honest why you are having this discussion in the first place. Isn't it true that you believe your beliefs are superior to mine? Isn't that why you are really here? To demonstrate that?

Actually no. I have made Christianity, among many other topics, a study of mine. I'm no scholar but I'm continually amazed how little Christians know about Christianity and its history. I feel I can sometimes contribute somewhat to that subject so I do.

I'm here to out smart the people who are trying to outsmart the people. Why are you here?

Educate the ignorant.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think it offends your sensibilities to believe your belief didn't exist among the founding fathers.

Because you have issues with your emotions handicapping your reason. So you devolve ino a worthless naysayer very easily.

Thus this useless crybabying, less than 5 minutes into a discussion of how freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.

Yawn.

 

[surada]

I disagree. It was 100% historical. The behaviors and actions of the early Christians and Apostles proves it.

Nope. The flood story, Exodus, Joshua's wars and Genesis are teaching narratives based on older myths.

The Jews did not come from Egypt. They emerged from Canaanite tribes who lived in Palestine when Egypt ruled Palestine. The Canaanite villages have been excavated in situ... They were never disturbed.

Jonah and the whale is a comic novella to teach that God loved even the people of Nineveh.

 

[alang1216]

If I am reading this correctly you equate people who believe in God with alcoholics and heroin addicts. Or is it only Christians you equate to alcoholics and heroin addicts?

And you don't believe you are being condescending? Maybe a little honesty is in order here.

I think religious fervor can bring on a sense of euphoria that can be as addictive as alcohol or heroin.

 

[ding]

Too inside for me. I'll let you Christians fight it out in peace.

You think he's a Christian? He's on your "team."

 

[ding]

I think religious fervor can bring on a sense of euphoria that can be as addictive as alcohol or heroin.

I think you are trying to not show your true beliefs.

To you, I am an alcoholic; a heroin addict. Why not lean into that?

 

[ding]

Because you have issues with your emotions handicapping your reason. So you devolve ino a worthless naysayer very easily.

Thus this useless crybabying, less than 5 minutes into a discussion of how freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.

Yawn.

Nope. I'm good. You are the one upset by the beliefs of others. That's why you are here.

 

[surada]

Sure. Why the absorption on tracking down reasons not to believe in Jesus? Why not try living in his teachings: The Beatitudes, Parables, Prayer, the Commandments, Live with the confidence of knowing turning away from sins/shortcomings results in the forgiveness of those sins/shortcomings--i.e., living the ways he taught us to live. Have you come to love everyone you come in contact with as he loves us? Think about it. Does it make any sense at all to say, "Hmmm, I won't try that way of living because I have no physical proof of a virgin giving birth or any supernatural events in Jesus' life."

So, yes, go on about why it is better to gather reasons why not to believe than to believe and put those beliefs into daily practice.

That's not what he's talking about.

Those beliefs are found in the older Egyptian book of the dead and the Code of the Hammurabi. They also came from older tablets found in Dilmun and Ras Shamra Ugarit.

Sumer had rich cultural heritage including a written language, commerce, agriculture, irrigation and sailboats a thousand years before Abraham.

 

[Donald H]

Wrong – separation of church and state; it’s not a question, it’s a fact.

That the Christo-fascist right has contempt for this fact further demonstrates the arrogant authoritarianism of theists and the wisdom to codify in the Constitution the Framers’ mandate that church and state remain separate in defense of the rights and protected liberties of the people from that arrogant religious authoritarianism.

Meriweather's ideal is no separation of church and state, as it was before Darwin forced the issue.

The main reason that can never be again is because Christians sold out to Darwin.

Most modern Christians, including M and D are trying to buy it back from Darwinism by promoting ID.

But every time they try their pseud-science is ferreted out as fake.

Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I've understood all of the above since childhood--fifth grade (age 10) to be exact. I am addressing those who think citizens who are also people of faith should not be involved in issues such as abortion, "wokeness", gathering other church members to vote for a specific candidate due to their political positions. I've read many times from those who believe churches should be taxed by governments because they do take a position on an issue or support a particular candidate. The faithful have just as much right to be heard as any other protester based on the fact we are also citizens. In fact--according to our faith--we have a duty to be heard.

At least you’re consistent at being wrong.

No one believes that theists should be prohibited from political participation, that’s a lie.

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the codification of religious doctrine and dogma into secular law, where religious doctrine and dogma are utilized to ‘justify’ using the authority of the state to disadvantage and discriminate against religious minorities, those free from religion, and classes of persons determined by theists to be acting contrary to that religious doctrine and dogma.

Theists are at liberty to engage in political discourse; they are not at liberty to violate the rights and protected liberties of the people.

 

[ding]

As alcohol has enriched mine (haven't tried heroine yet). I don't doubt your faith has enriched your life but it is condescending to say my life is not as rich as yours since I have no faith.


Actually no. I have made Christianity, among many other topics, a study of mine. I'm no scholar but I'm continually amazed how little Christians know about Christianity and its history. I feel I can sometimes contribute somewhat to that subject so I do.


Educate the ignorant.

And yet natural selection says you don't have the functional advantage that I have.

And you don't see your comment that you educate the ignorant as condescending? Again... I think you need to be honest with yourself.

 

[ding]

Meriweather's ideal is no separation of church and state, as it was before Darwin forced the issue.

The main reason that can never be again is because Christians sold out to Darwin.

Most modern Christians, including M and D are trying to buy it back from Darwinism by promoting ID.

But every time they try their pseud-science is ferreted out as fake.

I think you should let her speak for herself. You suck at speaking for others. It's intentional. It's your little game.

 

[ding]

I think religious fervor can bring on a sense of euphoria that can be as addictive as alcohol or heroin.

Does it bother you that you see religion exactly as Karl Marx did?

 

[alang1216]

I think you are trying to not show your true beliefs.

To you, I am an alcoholic; a heroin addict. Why not lean into that?

Faith comes in all sizes and, like alcohol, a little is a good thing but too much is destructive. Only you know where you lie on that spectrum.

 

[alang1216]

Does it bother you that you see religion exactly as Karl Marx did?

How is your view of religion different from that of Ayatollah Khomeini?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Try to understand! Is religion a branch of government?!

My point is that citizens of any faith--and groups of citizens of any faith--should be active in government without people who are against their input clamoring that churches be taxed. Perhaps you were not aware of people condemning Evangelicals as a whole for their support of President Trump in the 2016 and 2020 elections?

And appropriately so.

It makes perfect sense to condemn the blatant hypocrisy of Evangelicals for supporting the likes of Trump – who is a racist, bigot, and misogynist, someone truly reprehensible and wrong.

And private citizens appropriately condemning the blatant hypocrisy of Evangelicals in no manner denies theists political participation; Evangelicals have only themselves to blame for such condemnation.

And it’s wrong to conflate the taxing of churches with theists engaging in political participation, one having nothing to do with the other.