Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

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Once the words, “prohibiting the free exercise of any religion“ were inked on the pages of the US Constitution, there practically could be no more state churches. State controlled religion was scheduled for extinction and it happened.


Think about it.

At the time the constitution was ratified about half of the states had established religions. This is an historical fact that you can easily check yourself. Don't do drugs.

 

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and it happened

When was the date of the ending of the last established state religion?

Do you know what state established religions entailed?

Do you know why each state established religion ended?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

provide the tablets claimed to be etched in the heavens by the liar moses or remove those that are there, false commandments - as not to live in torment as moses for their crime against the heavens.

You really need to seek professional help. You have subscriptions, instead of only issues.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

When was the date of the ending of the last established state religion?

Do you know what state established religions entailed?

Do you know why each state established religion ended?

State religions became unconstitutional when they were forced to also abide by the Bill of Rights by the 14th Amendment's due process clause.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

nothing like writing your own bible ...

Thomas Jefferson did just that!

 

[ding]

State religions became unconstitutional when they were forced to also abide by the Bill of Rights by the 14th Amendment's due process clause.

Which didn't become a thing until the 20th century. They were long gone well before that. Each ended organically of their own accord.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

well, not everyone wonders in the desert, aimlessly and do attempt to know the truth - recorded history can help.

The word is "wander" not "wonder". I wonder if you knew that!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Which didn't become a thing until the 20th century. They were long gone well before that. Each ended organically of their own accord.

20th century? The SCOTUS adjudicated the court case in the 1800s. That's the 19th century. The 14th amendment was in 1868.

 

[Ace Nova]

Once the words, “prohibiting the free exercise of any religion“ were inked on the pages of the US Constitution, there practically could be no more state churches. State controlled religion was scheduled for extinction and it happened.


Think about it.

I don't see an issue there, do you?

The founding fathers were "Free thinkers" meaning they understood the dangers of having a specific religion be mandated by the Federal Government or the States. Being "forced" into a religion can be detrimental to the religion itself and can cause division, mistrust and even rebellion within states and governments. Even Catholics who are baptized as babies, go through the sacraments as children, etc have the free will to choose another religion or simply not practice it once they are of adult age. The difference is when the state mandates it, those same people would be forced to stay within a religion they may no longer agree with, etc.

People need to put themselves in other people's shoes when it comes to this issue. Imagine in some distant, alternate universe, Extremely conservative Muslims took majority control of the House, The Senate and the president was also Muslim. They then go on to pass Sharia Law as Federal Law. How would you feel as a Christian? As an Hindu? As an atheist? It would likely start a Civil War - and that could also happen if it was the other way around and extreme Christian sects took over the government, etc.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

impartial witness

The United States of America was not founded in 1820.

De Tocqueville witnessed a great awakening that started in 1800 on the frontier.. perhaps there were a lot churches there French Catholic saw a couple decades after the Cane Ridge Revival

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

The Trend of churching America steadily increased between the American Revolution and the American Civil War

NotfooledbyW Churching of America : Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34% 1860 37% 1870 35% 1890 45% 1906 51% 1916 53% 1926 56% 1952 59% 1980 62% 1995 65% * *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization data“ •••• nfbw 201130 Vftald00135

I have read accounts of evangelistic movements during the Civil War trying to introduce the soldiers on both sides to Jesus Christ. The sense was that about 1/3 of all the soldiers fighting on both sides were praying Christians. Evangelical societies were going for the other 66%. Apparently 2/3 of you, Munich confederate soldiers. We’re not Christian enough.

According to the gallop research between 1850 and 1870 the percentage of churched population wasn’t 35%.

I find the trend in the research and other accounts between 1776 and 1990 makes the gallop research very believable.to me.

But hey do you have any data besides pulling numbers out of your Holy Spirit Truth Machine chat suits your biased agenda.

 

[ding]

20th century? The SCOTUS adjudicated the court case in the 1800s. That's the 19th century. The 14th amendment was in 1868.

The incorporation story could be traced to the 1897 case of Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroad v. City of Chicago.

But scholars often argue that the Court really began the process in earnest with Gitlow v. New York in 1925.
There, the Court applied the First Amendment’s protection of the freedom of speech/press against the states.

Although Gitlow lost his case, the Court would build on this doctrinal framework in a series of 14th Amendment rulings that would strike down state laws that restricted speech, press, and assembly rights.

Later, it expanded the list of incorporated rights to include the First Amendment’s Free Exercise Clause (Cantwell v. Connecticut, 1940) and Establishment Clause (Everson v. Board of Education, 1947).

Constitution 101 Resources - 5.6 Info Brief: Incorporation | Constitution Center

Constitution 101 resource for 5.6 Info Brief: Incorporation

constitutioncenter.org

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

that's where you live ...

View attachment 997078

the bible belt kkk - maga on steroids.

Those images are likely from the Second Klan in the 1930s which was centered in the Midwest, and not the deep south, spurred on by blacks moving north and taking jobs in industry. The Bible Belt is much further south.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The incorporation story could be traced to the 1897 case of Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroad v. City of Chicago.

But scholars often argue that the Court really began the process in earnest with Gitlow v. New York in 1925.
There, the Court applied the First Amendment’s protection of the freedom of speech/press against the states.

Although Gitlow lost his case, the Court would build on this doctrinal framework in a series of 14th Amendment rulings that would strike down state laws that restricted speech, press, and assembly rights.

Later, it expanded the list of incorporated rights to include the First Amendment’s Free Exercise Clause (Cantwell v. Connecticut, 1940) and Establishment Clause (Everson v. Board of Education, 1947).

Constitution 101 Resources - 5.6 Info Brief: Incorporation | Constitution Center

Constitution 101 resource for 5.6 Info Brief: Incorporation

constitutioncenter.org

Isn't 1897 in the 1800s or the 19th century, as I stated?

 

[ding]

The United States of America was not founded in 1820.

De Tocqueville witnessed a great awakening that started in 1800 on the frontier.. perhaps there were a lot churches there French Catholic saw a couple decades after the Cane Ridge Revival

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

The Trend of churching America steadily increased between the American Revolution and the American Civil War

NotfooledbyW Churching of America : Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34% 1860 37% 1870 35% 1890 45% 1906 51% 1916 53% 1926 56% 1952 59% 1980 62% 1995 65% * *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization data“ •••• nfbw 201130 Vftald00135

I have read accounts of evangelistic movements during the Civil War trying to introduce the soldiers on both sides to Jesus Christ. The sense was that about 1/3 of all the soldiers fighting on both sides were praying Christians. Evangelical societies were going for the other 66%. Apparently 2/3 of you, Munich confederate soldiers. We’re not Christian enough.

According to the gallop research between 1850 and 1870 the percentage of churched population wasn’t 35%.

I find the trend in the research and other accounts between 1776 and 1990 makes the gallop research very believable.to me.

But hey do you have any data besides pulling numbers out of your Holy Spirit Truth Machine chat suits your biased agenda.

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country. Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society. In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth. In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

 

[ding]

Isn't 1897 in the 1800s or the 19th century, as I stated?

The Establishment clause of the 1st amendment being applied to the states - which is what we were discussing - was in 1947. Establishment Clause (Everson v. Board of Education, 1947)

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Constitution of the United States
1. The only reference to God is that it is dated, "In the year of our Lord"
2. The word "Christian" is mentioned seven times.

State Constitutions
1. God is mentioned at least once in all State Constitutions, nearly 200 times overall.

Declaration of Independence
1. In the first line, the Declaration says the source of power being the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.
2. God is referred to as the Creator Who endows humans with unalienable rights. In other words, God is the granter of human rights and the Creator of natural law.
3. God is called the “Supreme Judge of the world.”
4. The documents notes, “With a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

Why do lie? Isn't that a violation of the Ten Commandments? God will get you for that!

The word Christian appears in the US Constitution exactly zero times, the same number as Islam.

The Declaration of Independence is not a law or even an organizational structure. It is irrelevant to the topic.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

PoliticalChic said: America was not founded to be a Christian only nation.
#328

Glory be to God!

i. Separation of Church and State? 240817 {post•559}

Picaro Aug’24 Ssocas: It was evangelicals who got him {jffrsn} elected VP and then Prez. pvcvrv 240817 Ssocas00558



ii. Separation of Church and State? 2408178 {post•587}

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: Please submit the exit polling data on that.

How do you know the evangelicals elected Jefferson as VP? And then four years later to be President.

And how do you define evangelical? what is necessary for them to believe about Jesus Christ to call themselves evangelicals.


Jefferson lost his first run for the presidency to the Unitarian John Adams.

Evangelicals are Trinitarian. Why would they vote for John Adams?

The second and third president did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

How do you reconcile that with the truth you are attempting to peddle?

nfbw 240818 Vsocas00587

They also happened to be lifelong best friends.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You are a moron. You make conservatives look bad.

You can't answer the question, can you? Your interpretation of history is quite wrong on many aspects.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Incorporation of the Bill of Rights - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Bill of Rights: How Did it Happen?

Writing the Bill of Rights The amendments James Madison proposed were designed to win support in both houses of Congress and the states. He focused on rights-related amendments, ignoring suggestions that would have structurally changed the government. Opposition to the Constitution Many...

www.archives.gov

Bill of Rights Applies Only To The Federal Government – Annenberg Classroom

Although one of James Madison’s original amendments would have applied the Bill of Rights to the states, the Senate rejected it on the grounds that the states protect rights in their own constitutions. In the case of Barron v. Baltimore (1833), the Supreme Court reiterates this by arguing that...

www.annenbergclassroom.org

Now post the rest! You left out a great deal of information of how the courts changed the interpretation of the applicability of the BoR to the states. You are relying on only part of the history.

 

[ding]

You can't answer the question, can you? Your interpretation of history is quite wrong on many aspects.

What is it that you think I didn't answer? Do you even know?

What interpretation of history of mine is quite wrong?