Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[NotfooledbyW]

Do you know the difference between a militant atheist and a Christian who is registered to vote as a Democrat?

Do you think all the participants in your Kingdom of God are exactly the same as you?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I'm saying the founders intended for the bill of rights to apply only to the federal governmen

Another milktoast, meaningless phrase because you’re stuck.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, it isn't but you're determined to keep saying it, so go ahead.

The Church did not rule over England, the Royal Family and then Parliament did.

No, it isn't but you're determined to keep saying it, so go ahead.

The Church did not rule over England, the Royal Family and then Parliament did.

The monarch of the Church of England in the 18th Century was the 'defender of the faith' meaning head of the Church of England. The leader of the Church was the Archbishop of Canturbury with almost unlimited power and answerable only to the Monarch. The Church of England was the only authorized church and those who became the Pilgrims were not allowed to have their own churches separate from the Church of England.

It was a theocracy.

 

[Meriweather]

Although this is "The Kingdom of God" for some - it maybe not be the "Kingdom of God" for others. Forcing any religion on others and telling them it's because "This is the Kingdom of God" is the complete opposite of what it means to live in the Kingdom of God. All it does is create further discord and will only weaken the nation by dividing it (Why would you want to weaken and divide what you believe to be "The Kingdom of God"?)

The United States is a worldly nation. It is not the Kingdom of God. While anyone may enter the Kingdom of God, not all choose to do so. Wasn't it the children's program The Electric Company that taught/sang something like, "The most important is you." Anyone who thinks s/he is the most important will be unable to enter through the narrow gate of the Kingdom of God.

It's pretty much the same way with barging into the halls of government where the rich and powerful reign. My point is that as Christian citizens, we still have a duty to see to it God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I've been doing a lot of smiling and shaking my head at some of the reactions in this thread. First, some immediately jumped to the conclusion that I wanted a religion in government. Our Constitution is secular. Anyone upholding our government is not going to wedge a religion into it.

Wasn't it John Adams who said our government is only fit for a moral and religious people? Note, he did not say the government had to be moral and religious--he said the citizens needed to be moral and religious. I also love the more cynical quote, "Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half the time."

But back to God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. It seems many jump to the conclusion that this limits our freedom, whereas God is free and he created us in his image to be free. Saddling ourselves with a government is hardly a freeing experience, especially if we are of the mind and are teaching our children that I am the most important person. That's how we get males barging into female sports, teachers barging into the student transgender territory that rightfully belongs to parents and family. I am more important than my sister citizens; I am more important than a parent/family; I am more important than anyone in another political party...etc.

How do we free ourselves from government overreach so that we are truly the free people God made us to be? Overthrow the government? Hardly. We live our lives freely, we speak freely (but with goodness and love), and we live, not as though the I is the most important being, but that God is. In one of Jesus shortest parables he explained how this is done. We bring this yeast into our own life, and over time this yeast will spread, to less dependence on the government while taking on more responsibility for our freedom/independence.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Foxfyre

My point is that as Christian citizens, we still have a duty to see to it God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

You do not get to decide on a particular God’s will is to be done on earth using the coercion of the government.

You just don’t. Get it out of your head.

 

[Foxfyre]

The United States is a worldly nation. It is not the Kingdom of God. While anyone may enter the Kingdom of God, not all choose to do so. Wasn't it the children's program The Electric Company that taught/sang something like, "The most important is you." Anyone who thinks s/he is the most important will be unable to enter through the narrow gate of the Kingdom of God.

It's pretty much the same way with barging into the halls of government where the rich and powerful reign. My point is that as Christian citizens, we still have a duty to see to it God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I've been doing a lot of smiling and shaking my head at some of the reactions in this thread. First, some immediately jumped to the conclusion that I wanted a religion in government. Our Constitution is secular. Anyone upholding our government is not going to wedge a religion into it.

Wasn't it John Adams who said our government is only fit for a moral and religious people? Note, he did not say the government had to be moral and religious--he said the citizens needed to be moral and religious. I also love the more cynical quote, "Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half the time."

But back to God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. It seems many jump to the conclusion that this limits our freedom, whereas God is free and he created us in his image to be free. Saddling ourselves with a government is hardly a freeing experience, especially if we are of the mind and are teaching our children that I am the most important person. That's how we get males barging into female sports, teachers barging into the student transgender territory that rightfully belongs to parents and family. I am more important than my sister citizens; I am more important than a parent/family; I am more important than anyone in another political party...etc.

How do we free ourselves from government overreach so that we are truly the free people God made us to be? Overthrow the government? Hardly. We live our lives freely, we speak freely (but with goodness and love), and we live, not as though the I is the most important being, but that God is. In one of Jesus shortest parables he explained how this is done. We bring this yeast into our own life, and over time this yeast will spread, to less dependence on the government while taking on more responsibility for our freedom/independence.

I gently disagree that it is our Christian duty to see to it that God's will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. That kind of thinking led to the bloody Crusades, the Inquisition, the oppression and punishment of all who defied whatever the legal Church was in any given place or time, even justification of slavery and Jim Crow laws in the New World.

It is our Christian duty to, as much as we are able, know and do God's will by our own free will and understanding.

 

[Meriweather]

I gently disagree that it is our Christian duty to see to it that God's will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Then as a Christian, don't do God's will.

I am not clear why you disagree that doing God's will in one's own life, including one's personal civic duty such as voting is the stance you choose. I don't know why you are taking the stance that all people of faith should not to do the will of God in their own lives, including in any civic responsibilities such as voting or attending Town Hall Meetings to learn the position of candidates and/or to voice opinions on current issues.