Sexual Orientation: What are it's causes?

[flacaltenn]

This is somewhat inspired by Maxcha's thread, which... instead of arguing the morality (silly word) of homosexuality, we're arguing in what causes it.

Is it genetic, hormonal, or psychological... or possibly a combination of two or three?

From the evidence I have seen, it seems to be pointing towards hormones. There have been specific twin studies over the past few years that examine sets of twins with differing sexual orientations. Each set of twins are genetically identical and have experienced (relatively) uniform environmental settings. If this is true, the "nurture" aspect of psychological development is omitted with just "nature" left... Since it's not genetic (in this instance), then maybe it's hormonal?

Here's what I can say with a definite answer:

1. Sexual orientation is not a choice.
2. It's is not unnatural... seeing that it's a phenomina that occurs in many other species (not just humans).

By the way, if you're going to make a post in what your opinion is, then please leave links pointing towards evidence that supports your claim.

Admission -- haven't read a lot about the science on this, but I understand a bit about genetics, psychology and hormones at an academic level..

I think it's all three. And I think society misdiagnoses "true gayness" too often.

For example -- the BiSexual folks I've known (one intimately) have very few characteristic traits of "being gay". They don't even seriously accept the proposition of themselves being gay. They have just chosen (yep choice) to behave this way.. Score one for psychological.

Long way from BiSexual choice to gayness. The manners of speaking, gesturing, adaption to specific artistic and created tasks, easy association with same sex partners -- THIS has got to be genetic. There are many ways that genes determine traits. One is by presence, another is by activation.. Presence is the fact that someone INHERITED a gene from a parent. Activation is a chemical/neurological process that is not completely explained.

I believe that gayness could be an activation of genes that are fairly prevalent in populations but not yet identified. Therefore your lineage doesn't have to be heavily involved. Since we see "gayness" in other species, the gene stuff could be carried in all that "junk DNA" that's in common with other mammals.

Suck on this for a minute..

Are People Born Gay? Genetics and Homosexuality

Paul Cameron published a study in 2006 that claimed that the children of homosexual parents expressed a homosexual orientation much more frequently than the general population.39 Although claims of bias were made against the study, another study by Walter Schuum in 2010 confirmed Cameron's results by statistically examining the results of 10 other studies that addressed the question.40 In total, 262 children raised by homosexual parents were included in the analysis. The results showed that 16-57% of such children adopted a homosexual lifestyle. The results were even more striking in daughters of lesbian mothers, 33% to 57% of whom became lesbians themselves. Since homosexuals makeup only ~5% of the population, it is clear that parenting does influence sexual orientation.

YEAH, YEAH.. I KNOW the link sucks. So HERE is the ORIGINAL study that he is referring. So it is real.

Children of homosexuals and transsexuals more a... [J Biosoc Sci. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

[[After I posted this I realized that although it appears on the NIH website and was published in a respectable journal, the researchers' organization affiliation may make this suspect. I generally don't discount scientific journal articles because of affiliation, but some might. Free speech, free minds, free inquiry, etc, etc]]

So NURTURE seems to win over NATURE in a lot of the studies. But don't count GENES out of it yet..

I've read about hormone activation of genes --- is it POSSIBLE that HORMONES could activate some of those "junk DNA" genes and initiate gayness? Sounds possible. If you go back to the NIH report -- Is it possible that hormone generation due to living with GAY PARENTS enhances the possibilitty of that gene activation? What ELSE might influence the activation?

Could EVERYONE be right? Tune in later --- I think that's the answer. It just MIGHT be ALL THREE....

Lots of questions eh? The science is out there. We'll know soon...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The difference there is that pedophiles pray on innocent children, molest and torture them when they have no choice in the matter. And many do say that pedophilia is a disease and they should be treated.

But when it comes to being gay, when it is not a choice, it is up to the partners to decide whether or not to engage in sexual activity. That's the difference.

The difference is that you have arbitrarily decided that one is acceptable and one isn't, so you choose to pretend that your morality is better than theirs.

So I arbitrarily decided that I find it OK for two consenting adults to have sexual relations, and arbitrarily decided that it was not OK for an adult to force a kid to have sex?

Or am I misreading your comment?

That is exactly what you did, and you should admit it. Even if sexual attraction is not a choice, which is debatable despite all the people lining up with the high minded intent to rob us of free will, people still have a choice in what they do. Either that, or everything we do has been laid out since the beginning of time. Either way, it makes no sense to argue that pedophilia is a disease and homosexuality isn't.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Jayzuz, the level of ignorance in this thread is astounding. So basically, there are people who are so stupid, they believe that upon reaching puberty, millions of young people say to themselves:

"Hmmm. Let's see.
What could I do to alienate my friends and family and be considered a freak by a lot of ignorant whackjobs?
What could I do to increase my chances of being beaten or even killed without provocation? What could I do to eliminate my chance to join the military (until recently) and make it tougher to get a job, just because of who I am?
What can I do to make it tougher to have a normal life?
I know! I'll suddenly CHOOSE to be turned on by the same sex!"

I had a friend in high school. Geez I envied him. Tall, muscular, star running back on the football team and always had the hottest girlfriends. Lots of them. Turned out he was gay. Kicked off the team. Got the crap beat out of him and when his parents found out WHY he was in the hospital, they told him not to come home. He disappeared and I was pretty sure he killed himself. Ran into him years later. Great guy. Owns a Wendy's or McDonalds, I forget which. So we had a beer and he told me about living scared to death of his own body. Oh yeah, his parents were devout Christians. He knew when he was like 9 or 10 and tried praying the gay away. Didn't work. It really was very impactful.

So to the whackjobs who think it's a choice, you can convince me of that fact very easily. You can put everyone in their place or you are proven wrong and will Cut & Run from this question:

If you wanted to, could you get aroused by imagining yourself having sex with someone of the same sex? I mean, it's a "choice" right? So YOU could chooses to get hard by looking at and imagining a sexual act with a man's penis & balls, right?

You may now all change the subject, deflect or Cut & Run.

Oh my god, the resident expert on getting everything wrong has decided to throw in his opinion and scoff at the fact that anyone might disagree with him and be right.

Until you can explain the fact that identical twins who grow up in the same house with the same genetic structure can have different sexual preferences the fracking jury is still out. You might not like it, and you might not be smart enough to understand the science, but the fact is that science does not know the answer, so all you have is pretension in assuming that, just because you are a weak minded fool that would rather comply with societal norms and date a girl who looks like what your friends like than one you are attracted to, that does not mean everyone is.

Go climb back into your nice safe cocoon and leave the hard stuff to people that are not afraid of their shadows.

Either that or take me off ignore and read what I said about this subject in this thread and admit that you are wrong. The guy who started the thread did.

 

[flacaltenn]

The difference is that you have arbitrarily decided that one is acceptable and one isn't, so you choose to pretend that your morality is better than theirs.

So I arbitrarily decided that I find it OK for two consenting adults to have sexual relations, and arbitrarily decided that it was not OK for an adult to force a kid to have sex?

Or am I misreading your comment?

That is exactly what you did, and you should admit it. Even if sexual attraction is not a choice, which is debatable despite all the people lining up with the high minded intent to rob us of free will, people still have a choice in what they do. Either that, or everything we do has been laid out since the beginning of time. Either way, it makes no sense to argue that pedophilia is a disease and homosexuality isn't.

Evidently folks the Amer Psych Assoc. is ALSO very confused about this point and has recently gotten into a HUGE PR curfuffal (sp?)..

BTW: I think Pedophilia is STILL in the APA DSManual -- Homosexuality came out of the manual years ago for "correctness". But they will STILL take money from gays for "couch time"...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So I arbitrarily decided that I find it OK for two consenting adults to have sexual relations, and arbitrarily decided that it was not OK for an adult to force a kid to have sex?

Or am I misreading your comment?

That is exactly what you did, and you should admit it. Even if sexual attraction is not a choice, which is debatable despite all the people lining up with the high minded intent to rob us of free will, people still have a choice in what they do. Either that, or everything we do has been laid out since the beginning of time. Either way, it makes no sense to argue that pedophilia is a disease and homosexuality isn't.

Evidently folks the Amer Psych Assoc. is ALSO very confused about this point and has recently gotten into a HUGE PR curfuffal (sp?)..

BTW: I think Pedophilia is STILL in the APA DSManual -- Homosexuality came out of the manual years ago for "correctness". But they will STILL take money from gays for "couch time"...

The APA still advocates treatment for pedophilia and has been known to argue it is curable, which is amazing when they also argue that homosexuality isn't. They really need to get their collective heads out of their asses and admit they are just trying to impose their morality on other people, us Christians have no problem with contradicting ourselves that way.

 

[Cenotaph]

I thought this article was rather interesting: Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture

 

[Political Junky]

Actually, there was poll (taken in 2000) that asked whether or not one's opinion would change if sexual orientation was proven not to be a choice. 75% said "no."

Now, polls are not always very reliable (especially when there is only one... which was taken 12 years ago), but keep in mind that racism and sexism have existed and still exists despite the fact both gender and skin color are determined by genetics.

People will continue to promote hate whether science backs them or not. However, as of right now, some of them are (yes) hiding behind the lack of conclusive proof that supports sexual orientation is determined before birth. I can assure you, though, that their position wouldn't change even if there was conclusive proof.

In 2000, there were no states that allowed same sex marriage. Now there are 8. Polls were reliable in 2000 when voter were against same sex marriage and not in 2012 when a majority of voter approve of allowing same sex marriage?

Wow at this rate, in about 62 years homos will be able to get married anywhere they want! Glory Hallelujah!

Meh, I don't see it happening.

Oh, it'll happen and in far less than 62 years.

 

[eots]

this woman has some interesting insights on the subject...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kYEr0xQZxY]Legendary & Hysterical Anti-Gay Rant (Watch the Audience Reaction) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sunni Man]

Also, I was raised by a gay couple (two women)... just to be clear.

Sad to here that; you never had a chance to be normal

 

[Cenotaph]

So I arbitrarily decided that I find it OK for two consenting adults to have sexual relations, and arbitrarily decided that it was not OK for an adult to force a kid to have sex?

Or am I misreading your comment?

That is exactly what you did, and you should admit it. Even if sexual attraction is not a choice, which is debatable despite all the people lining up with the high minded intent to rob us of free will, people still have a choice in what they do. Either that, or everything we do has been laid out since the beginning of time. Either way, it makes no sense to argue that pedophilia is a disease and homosexuality isn't.

Well... what are your thoughts on it? Do you consider both pedophilia and homosexuality to be diseases?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Has zero to do with my religion.

What homos do is just plain nasty and perverted.

I wish it wasn't a choice and was genetic.

Because most homos don't breed.

So their abnormal gay gene would go extinct rather quickly.

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

Homosexuality runs in my family. What difference does it make what causes it?

This article addresses causes.

http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF08L41.pdf

 

[PredFan]

I thought this article was rather interesting: Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture

Nature vs nurture is a very interesting discussion, imo. As I recently stated, I believe that it is a little bit of both. That there is a genetic pre-disposition, with an environmental trigger.

 

[PredFan]

In 2000, there were no states that allowed same sex marriage. Now there are 8. Polls were reliable in 2000 when voter were against same sex marriage and not in 2012 when a majority of voter approve of allowing same sex marriage?

Wow at this rate, in about 62 years homos will be able to get married anywhere they want! Glory Hallelujah!

Meh, I don't see it happening.

Oh, it'll happen and in far less than 62 years.

I don't think that the evidence is in your favor. Legislation is still getting defeated when held up for a vote, even in a state as liberal as California. A majority of Americans of all ages and ethnicities disagree with you.

Now, I know that we are a nation of laws and not "Mob Rule" but people like us who believe in liberty, particularly in the sexual arena, are in the minority and probably will stay that way for a while. 62 years might actually be accurate.

 

[PredFan]

Has zero to do with my religion.

What homos do is just plain nasty and perverted.

I wish it wasn't a choice and was genetic.

Because most homos don't breed.

So their abnormal gay gene would go extinct rather quickly.

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

Homosexuality runs in my family. What difference does it make what causes it?

This article addresses causes.

http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF08L41.pdf

I believe that there is a genetic pre-disposition, but just because there are many gays in your family, doesn't rule out nurture.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Rather than tripping out about the causes of homosexuality, more to the point is can we live with differences and offer equal civil rights to citizens?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

Homosexuality runs in my family. What difference does it make what causes it?

This article addresses causes.

http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF08L41.pdf

I believe that there is a genetic pre-disposition, but just because there are many gays in your family, doesn't rule out nurture.

There isn't much evidence of a genetic-predisposition nor is there compelling evidence that environment causes homosexuality.

Maybe it's just that some people like kinky sex, or being naughty.

I blame the Catholic Church for my lesbianism. I have a contrary nature and the Church was totally sexually repressive when I was a kid.(and I'm saying all this in a light hearted manner)

 

[Sky Dancer]

Most researchers agree that homosexuality is multi-causal and complex; many factors contribute to the development of same-sex attraction. Most researchers, including Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene” researcher who is himself a gay man, agree that homosexuality is due to a combination of social, biological, and psychological factors. Dr. Hamer has said, "Genes are hardware…the data of life’s experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what’s installed at the factory and what’s added by the user (P. Copeland and D. Hammer (1994) The Science of Desire. New York: Simon and Schuster.)”

It is also important to note that the combination of factors is different for each person.

Now a comment is needed about the second part of the question - is homosexuality a choice? Human choice can be accurately viewed as one of the factors influencing the development of sexual orientation but this does not mean that people consciously decide their sexual orientation. No one decides on a specific day that from that day onward that they will be a homosexual or a heterosexual. No one can decide that they will experience opposite-sex or same-sex attractions. Instead, sexual orientation is shaped and reshaped by a series of many choices and response to circumstances in one’s life and enormous social and cultural pressures.

Returning to the question - is homosexaulity genetic or is it a choice? The answer is neither. The simple question of what causes homosexuality appears to have a rather complicated answer. And we do not have to adopt a simplistic either/or approach when looking for what causes homosexuality.

Causes...

 

[PredFan]

Homosexuality runs in my family. What difference does it make what causes it?

This article addresses causes.

http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF08L41.pdf

I believe that there is a genetic pre-disposition, but just because there are many gays in your family, doesn't rule out nurture.

There isn't much evidence of a genetic-predisposition nor is there compelling evidence that environment causes homosexuality.

Maybe it's just that some people like kinky sex, or being naughty.

I blame the Catholic Church for my lesbianism. I have a contrary nature and the Church was totally sexually repressive when I was a kid.(and I'm saying all this in a light hearted manner)

I have absolutely no evidence what so ever, only my experience. I think that the evidence for a genetic pre-disposition is men with feminine characteristics and women with male characteristics. Some men, and some women (not all mind you), you can tell they are gay just by looking at them.

 

[PredFan]

Most researchers agree that homosexuality is multi-causal and complex; many factors contribute to the development of same-sex attraction. Most researchers, including Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene” researcher who is himself a gay man, agree that homosexuality is due to a combination of social, biological, and psychological factors. Dr. Hamer has said, "Genes are hardware…the data of life’s experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what’s installed at the factory and what’s added by the user (P. Copeland and D. Hammer (1994) The Science of Desire. New York: Simon and Schuster.)”

It is also important to note that the combination of factors is different for each person.

Now a comment is needed about the second part of the question - is homosexuality a choice? Human choice can be accurately viewed as one of the factors influencing the development of sexual orientation but this does not mean that people consciously decide their sexual orientation. No one decides on a specific day that from that day onward that they will be a homosexual or a heterosexual. No one can decide that they will experience opposite-sex or same-sex attractions. Instead, sexual orientation is shaped and reshaped by a series of many choices and response to circumstances in one’s life and enormous social and cultural pressures.

Returning to the question - is homosexaulity genetic or is it a choice? The answer is neither. The simple question of what causes homosexuality appears to have a rather complicated answer. And we do not have to adopt a simplistic either/or approach when looking for what causes homosexuality.

Causes...

This would seem to support my theory that it is both. The statement "The answer is neither." can be taken as agreeing because I don't believe that it is ALL nature or all nurture. I certainly do not believe that it is choice.

Though, it is conceiveable that there may be some who actually do choose to be gay.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Most researchers agree that homosexuality is multi-causal and complex; many factors contribute to the development of same-sex attraction. Most researchers, including Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene” researcher who is himself a gay man, agree that homosexuality is due to a combination of social, biological, and psychological factors. Dr. Hamer has said, "Genes are hardware…the data of life’s experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what’s installed at the factory and what’s added by the user (P. Copeland and D. Hammer (1994) The Science of Desire. New York: Simon and Schuster.)”

It is also important to note that the combination of factors is different for each person.

Now a comment is needed about the second part of the question - is homosexuality a choice? Human choice can be accurately viewed as one of the factors influencing the development of sexual orientation but this does not mean that people consciously decide their sexual orientation. No one decides on a specific day that from that day onward that they will be a homosexual or a heterosexual. No one can decide that they will experience opposite-sex or same-sex attractions. Instead, sexual orientation is shaped and reshaped by a series of many choices and response to circumstances in one’s life and enormous social and cultural pressures.

Returning to the question - is homosexaulity genetic or is it a choice? The answer is neither. The simple question of what causes homosexuality appears to have a rather complicated answer. And we do not have to adopt a simplistic either/or approach when looking for what causes homosexuality.

Causes...

This would seem to support my theory that it is both. The statement "The answer is neither." can be taken as agreeing because I don't believe that it is ALL nature or all nurture. I certainly do not believe that it is choice.

Though, it is conceiveable that there may be some who actually do choose to be gay.

Heterosexuality, is that a choice? If it isn't, then neither is homosexuality, and if it is, then what's the problem.

We could say we choose who we go to bed with, but I don't think we choose who we're attracted to.

Pheronomes maybe. Compatible cooties?