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What do they stand to gain?
Many believe they are earning crucifix-shaped Amway points to heaven.
CLEARLY you remember Jim Baker in the 80s.
Bakker Sentenced to 45 Years For Fraud in His TV Ministry - The New York Times
Sorry dogma junkie... Your appeal to whitewash the great dangling carrot just doesn't impress me.
CLEARLY you remember Jim Baker in the 80s.
Bakker Sentenced to 45 Years For Fraud in His TV Ministry - The New York Times
Sorry dogma junkie... Your appeal to whitewash the great dangling carrot just doesn't impress me.
Jim Baker from the 80's has what to do with the topic? Your assertion that there are people who have misused religion in the past, and misuse religion right now means that all christians are doing the same thing? Is that really your argument here? Seriously?
Do I care if you're impressed? Ego much?
Bribe? So if religious people help the poor it's a bribe? If they don't help the poor, then they're not practicing what they preach. You people are hilarious. You find an angle to attack no matter what religious people do or don't do. That's why your critcisms go in one ear and out the other, they are meaningless because they are based on your own fears and/or agendas.
In your post you make it sound as though the mindless, stupid poor need protected from the likes of the evil christians by someone like you I suppose? Even if someone should go into a christian charity and get help and has to hear about God while he is there, he still has the personal choice of accepting or rejecting what he hears? Or maybe those evil chritians chain them up and force them to conver?
Hey, maybe democrats and liberals can start passing out food on election day! Oh.. that would be summarily criticized and hailed as what it would be, eh? Funny how that works.
Exactly, because they would want something in return. a vote that gives them power. What does a christian ministry want in return for it's charity? Money? From a poor person? Power? Why don't you explain how it's even remotely the same?
CLEARLY you remember Jim Baker in the 80s.
Bakker Sentenced to 45 Years For Fraud in His TV Ministry - The New York Times
Sorry dogma junkie... Your appeal to whitewash the great dangling carrot just doesn't impress me.
Jim Baker from the 80's has what to do with the topic? Your assertion that there are people who have misused religion in the past, and misuse religion right now means that all christians are doing the same thing? Is that really your argument here? Seriously?
Do I care if you're impressed? Ego much?
don't get all bent out of shape because I can literally show you example after example of dogma junkie motherfuckers using the dangled carrot of food or salvation to accrue power, wealth and influence. By all means, batshit crazy nutter, go ahead and keep denying gravity.
Hey, maybe democrats and liberals can start passing out food on election day! Oh.. that would be summarily criticized and hailed as what it would be, eh? Funny how that works.
Exactly, because they would want something in return. a vote that gives them power. What does a christian ministry want in return for it's charity? Money? From a poor person? Power? Why don't you explain how it's even remotely the same?
Money isn't the only form of power.
Exactly, because they would want something in return. a vote that gives them power. What does a christian ministry want in return for it's charity? Money? From a poor person? Power? Why don't you explain how it's even remotely the same?
Money isn't the only form of power.
Okay, I'm sure you're just full of examples of how christian ministries that help the poor gain power by giving them food and clothing.
Money isn't the only form of power.
Okay, I'm sure you're just full of examples of how christian ministries that help the poor gain power by giving them food and clothing.
Organized religions hinge on the number of followers, there are some christians who do not follow the organization ideology thankfully but the churches are dependent on those. So to make people participate in their religious practices in order to get what they need to live is a form of gaining power, and it's wrong. It would be the same as if the KKK expected people to become white supremacists for food, or for Islamist extremists to expect you to be a suicide bomber for food.
If you want to help, give it to them without more than a request that they try to become self sufficient, anything more is indoctrination.
This is one such "mission":
Seattle's Union Gospel Mission: Welcome to Seattle's Union Gospel Mission
It's in my area and I know for a fact that in order to get a meal from them you have to sit through their "services".
Okay, I'm sure you're just full of examples of how christian ministries that help the poor gain power by giving them food and clothing.
Organized religions hinge on the number of followers, there are some christians who do not follow the organization ideology thankfully but the churches are dependent on those. So to make people participate in their religious practices in order to get what they need to live is a form of gaining power, and it's wrong. It would be the same as if the KKK expected people to become white supremacists for food, or for Islamist extremists to expect you to be a suicide bomber for food.
If you want to help, give it to them without more than a request that they try to become self sufficient, anything more is indoctrination.
I've never denied that there are some out there that operate the way you describe, but it is not the majority that is being implied here. Furthermore, how many of those people helped actually join the church and become active, contributing members to the congregation? What percentage of the people that they help?
Adults are being indoctrinated? Once again you're assuming that the poor or hungry are mindless, stupid sheep that will do anything for the hand that helps them out? Is that your assertion?
Organized religions hinge on the number of followers, there are some christians who do not follow the organization ideology thankfully but the churches are dependent on those. So to make people participate in their religious practices in order to get what they need to live is a form of gaining power, and it's wrong. It would be the same as if the KKK expected people to become white supremacists for food, or for Islamist extremists to expect you to be a suicide bomber for food.
If you want to help, give it to them without more than a request that they try to become self sufficient, anything more is indoctrination.
I've never denied that there are some out there that operate the way you describe, but it is not the majority that is being implied here. Furthermore, how many of those people helped actually join the church and become active, contributing members to the congregation? What percentage of the people that they help?
Adults are being indoctrinated? Once again you're assuming that the poor or hungry are mindless, stupid sheep that will do anything for the hand that helps them out? Is that your assertion?
I am sure that if you had personal experiences to go on then you would see that it is a majority. In Seattle only one such "church" has done something which doesn't push it's beliefs onto those who need their services, all others however (save when they aren't allowed to because of federal/state funding) have. I lived "in the system" for almost 7 years before I finally got out, thanks to the one organization. I wear a pentacle, proud to be a pagan (not the ones you see on TV but it's purist definition), got turned away by all others because of it, one made the request that I take off the pentacle. But the one that actually helped made no stipulations, they simply said "here" ... and here's a list of resources you may find helpful in getting more help (all state run). Compass Center, Compass Center :: Welcome
We have five organizations in Seattle that are "church" run, only one does not require some form of conversion or for you to participate, that's one in five. Other states I have been to the number holds, Indiana was the worst, Colorado was a little better, but on average it's one in five that actually just "help". Another is the type of help, Compass does more than just hand you what you need, they also encourage you to get schooling, jobs, etc. and hook you up with those resources, while the others require you to become part of their religious practices but will only give you basic needs.
These people will deny housing for non-christians.
Catholic Community Services of Western Washington: King County Properties
We believe in compassion, love and respect for all people, especially those who are poor and vulnerable. Catholic Community Services provide a continuum of care for homeless and low-income people throughout Western Washington. Through day centers, emergency shelters and emergency services, we provide warm, safe refuge from the streets.
Many of our programs have facilities where homeless men, women and children can come to bathe, launder clothes, receive medical attention and alcohol and drug treatment, services that help to normalize and stabilize lives. To help them make connections to secure lives again, we provide case management and employment support.
Northwest Washington
Homeless Programs
(CCS)
Emergency Shelter
PPW (Pregnant/Parenting Woman Supportive Housing)
Project Ladder
Transitional Housing
(CCS)
Autumn Leaf House
HIV/AIDS Housing
King County
Homeless Programs
(CCS)
Access to Success
Issaquah Meals
Lazarus Day Center
Matt Talbot Center
Noel House Programs
Solanus Casey Center
Women's Referral Center
Women's Wellness Center
Overnight Shelters
(CCS)
ARISE
HOME
Noel House Shelter
Sacred Heart Shelter
St. Mark's Shelter
St. Martin de Porres Shelter
Youth Day Center
(CCS)
UDYC (University District Youth Center)
Transitional Housing
(CCS)
Aloha Inn
Katherine's House
Harrington House
Rose of Lima House
Rita's House
Southwest Washington
Homeless Services
(CCS)
Tacoma Avenue Shelter
Centers/Programs
(CCS)
Hospitality Kitchen
The Community Kitchen
Feed the Hungry
Emergency Shelters
(CCS)
Benedict House
Overnight Shelters
(CCS)
Drexel House
Grays Harbor Youth Center
Transitional Housing
(CCS)
Benedict House
Drexel House
Phoenix Housing Network
I've never denied that there are some out there that operate the way you describe, but it is not the majority that is being implied here. Furthermore, how many of those people helped actually join the church and become active, contributing members to the congregation? What percentage of the people that they help?
Adults are being indoctrinated? Once again you're assuming that the poor or hungry are mindless, stupid sheep that will do anything for the hand that helps them out? Is that your assertion?
I am sure that if you had personal experiences to go on then you would see that it is a majority. In Seattle only one such "church" has done something which doesn't push it's beliefs onto those who need their services, all others however (save when they aren't allowed to because of federal/state funding) have. I lived "in the system" for almost 7 years before I finally got out, thanks to the one organization. I wear a pentacle, proud to be a pagan (not the ones you see on TV but it's purist definition), got turned away by all others because of it, one made the request that I take off the pentacle. But the one that actually helped made no stipulations, they simply said "here" ... and here's a list of resources you may find helpful in getting more help (all state run). Compass Center, Compass Center :: Welcome
We have five organizations in Seattle that are "church" run, only one does not require some form of conversion or for you to participate, that's one in five. Other states I have been to the number holds, Indiana was the worst, Colorado was a little better, but on average it's one in five that actually just "help". Another is the type of help, Compass does more than just hand you what you need, they also encourage you to get schooling, jobs, etc. and hook you up with those resources, while the others require you to become part of their religious practices but will only give you basic needs.
I do have personal experiences to go on from the other side of the situation, I have been a volunteer to help and there were no strings attached. Secondly, it's the church's money and if they want to minister to those they are helping while they are helping them, that's their perogative. You have failed to show how they are gaining any power, wealth, or control by ministering while assisting. If those being helped are so against it, there are many other places to find help. Thirdly, you stated outright that it's 'indoctrination', which is completely ridiculous. You've failed to answer my question that those being helped are so stupid that they can be 'indoctrinated' as grown adults into something they wouldn't wish to believe in.
However that also doesn't mean they abusing the situation. I merely addressed your contention that you thought it wasn't wide practice, well, it is. A majority of organizations operated by churches do require some form of conversion to access their services.
I am sure that if you had personal experiences to go on then you would see that it is a majority. In Seattle only one such "church" has done something which doesn't push it's beliefs onto those who need their services, all others however (save when they aren't allowed to because of federal/state funding) have. I lived "in the system" for almost 7 years before I finally got out, thanks to the one organization. I wear a pentacle, proud to be a pagan (not the ones you see on TV but it's purist definition), got turned away by all others because of it, one made the request that I take off the pentacle. But the one that actually helped made no stipulations, they simply said "here" ... and here's a list of resources you may find helpful in getting more help (all state run). Compass Center, Compass Center :: Welcome
We have five organizations in Seattle that are "church" run, only one does not require some form of conversion or for you to participate, that's one in five. Other states I have been to the number holds, Indiana was the worst, Colorado was a little better, but on average it's one in five that actually just "help". Another is the type of help, Compass does more than just hand you what you need, they also encourage you to get schooling, jobs, etc. and hook you up with those resources, while the others require you to become part of their religious practices but will only give you basic needs.
I do have personal experiences to go on from the other side of the situation, I have been a volunteer to help and there were no strings attached. Secondly, it's the church's money and if they want to minister to those they are helping while they are helping them, that's their perogative. You have failed to show how they are gaining any power, wealth, or control by ministering while assisting. If those being helped are so against it, there are many other places to find help. Thirdly, you stated outright that it's 'indoctrination', which is completely ridiculous. You've failed to answer my question that those being helped are so stupid that they can be 'indoctrinated' as grown adults into something they wouldn't wish to believe in.
Just because they can do it doesn't mean it's right.
In the work place though, it is up to the company (or it should be) and they can fire people for disrupting the work environment with religious preachiness of any sort for any religion. They can also ban all religious materials from the place of business, though it's an all or nothing law.
I do have personal experiences to go on from the other side of the situation, I have been a volunteer to help and there were no strings attached. Secondly, it's the church's money and if they want to minister to those they are helping while they are helping them, that's their perogative. You have failed to show how they are gaining any power, wealth, or control by ministering while assisting. If those being helped are so against it, there are many other places to find help. Thirdly, you stated outright that it's 'indoctrination', which is completely ridiculous. You've failed to answer my question that those being helped are so stupid that they can be 'indoctrinated' as grown adults into something they wouldn't wish to believe in.
Just because they can do it doesn't mean it's right.
In the work place though, it is up to the company (or it should be) and they can fire people for disrupting the work environment with religious preachiness of any sort for any religion. They can also ban all religious materials from the place of business, though it's an all or nothing law.
It's your personal opinion that it's not 'right'. I don't see anything wrong with it at all, nor are they abusing anything.
There's that word conversion again. What kind of conversion? And what do you have to back up your assertion that this is wide spread?
Just because they can do it doesn't mean it's right.
In the work place though, it is up to the company (or it should be) and they can fire people for disrupting the work environment with religious preachiness of any sort for any religion. They can also ban all religious materials from the place of business, though it's an all or nothing law.
It's your personal opinion that it's not 'right'. I don't see anything wrong with it at all, nor are they abusing anything.
There's that word conversion again. What kind of conversion? And what do you have to back up your assertion that this is wide spread?
Conversion is the practice of one belief system when you had been practicing another or none at all prior.
It is abuse, taking advantage of those who have little to no choice is the definition of abuse.
My "assertion" as I already pointed out to you, is that I have dealt with the system in on form or another through almost every state. I can count the number of states I have not lived in on my hands.
