Shootings in Britain

[Vagabond63]

You made the statement that crime rates were going down around the world....that includes the United States.

Well, no I didn’t as it happens, you just rushed to your cut and paste library without reading what I had written. My actual post said:
“And again we have a fine example of the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy. No social survey or academic research has ever mentioned gun ownership as a factor in the decline in gun murder rates or crime rates. This is further illustrated that the same rates declined throughout the Western world over the same period in countries with gun control laws. “ Post #493 (my emphasis)

 

[Vagabond63]

Mayfair Mall is a gun free zone...which means normal Americans can't bring their legal guns with them to the mall....

Fair point, I checked the state laws on this, but never thought to look at the Mall’s own policy on acceptable behaviour. Still, given the shooting happened outside the Mall where presumably all these “good guys with guns” presumably had access to them in their cars, trucks, etc. before entering the Mall, my question stands, where were they?

 

[Vagabond63]

You just cited the research methods of anti-gun extremists........that is how they have to do research since the truth, facts and reality don't support their research........

…and I could state with equal validity,

“You just cited the research methods of pro-gun extremists...that is how they have to do research since the truth, facts and reality don't support their research...” Next?

 

[Vagabond63]

Hey, genius.....which British gun control law stops this guy from walking into a mall, a church or a theater in Britain and shooting people?

Erm…because he’s in America. I suspect he’d have to get on a plane and our airport security would probably find his gun…

 

[Vagabond63]

Guns in the hands of normal people do not increase the gun crime rate...the gun murder rate, or the violent crime rate....

Nor do they decrease it. You destroy your own argument with every post. This is too easy.

 

[Vagabond63]

...you don't even know the people involved...you are attacking Dr. Gary Kleck....not Dr. John Lott....

I know exactly to whom I was referring. Reading really isn’t your strong suit, is it?

 

[Vagabond63]

Yeah.....the mall shooting was likely a gang shooting......a hispanic 15 year old has been arrested.

How do you know that it was a "gang shooting" or that the gun was "illegal", it could have legally belonged to his parents? "In the US, 4.6 million minors live in homes with at least one loaded and unsecured firearm." according to Kids & Guns | Giffords

 

[Vagabond63]

...meanwhile in America...

Oh look, another multiple shooting...

A suspect was pictured smiling in his booking photo after two people were killed and two others were injured in a shooting at a fast food restaurant in Nebraska.

Officers were called to the Sonic Drive-In at 1307 Cornhusker Road in Bellevue, a suburb of Omaha, on Saturday night. Sonic drive-in shooting suspect smiles in mugshot after 2 killed, 2 wounded

 

[Vagabond63]

No wait... another one.

Police: Five people shot, one dead in Phoenix party shooting

A woman is dead and at least four others are injured after a shooting during a party in Phoenix, police say.

www.fox10phoenix.com

Maybe America needs some gun control, you can't shoot teenagers if you haven't got guns.

 

[2aguy]

You made the statement that crime rates were going down around the world....that includes the United States.

Well, no I didn’t as it happens, you just rushed to your cut and paste library without reading what I had written. My actual post said:
“And again we have a fine example of the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy. No social survey or academic research has ever mentioned gun ownership as a factor in the decline in gun murder rates or crime rates. This is further illustrated that the same rates declined throughout the Western world over the same period in countries with gun control laws. “ Post #493 (my emphasis)

And you are wrong....there have been a number of studies on this......you simply don't know what you are talking about...

 

[2aguy]

Guns in the hands of normal people do not increase the gun crime rate...the gun murder rate, or the violent crime rate....

Nor do they decrease it. You destroy your own argument with every post. This is too easy.

Are you really this stupid?

The central argument of anti-gun extremists is simply.....if there are more guns there will be more gun crime.

That argument is wrong......as I keep showing you with your help.

You said that crime rates around the world dropped at the same time.

I showed you the fact that as crime rates dropped around the world, more Americans were actually buying and carrying guns.

This fact, according to you, should have increased the gun crime rate in the United States as the rest of the world experienced crime rates going down....since, again, your argument is more guns will increase gun crime and regular crime.


The fact that that didn't happen....and gun murder rates went down 49%, and gun crime rates went down 75%, shows your argument is completely wrong.

As to lowering the crime rate, there are about a dozen studies that show that armed citizens lower the violent crime rate and drive lots of criminals into non-human crime, into burglary over robbery....

And at the very core? The victim with a gun that stops the rape, robbery or murder lowers the crime rate against them....you doofus.

 

[2aguy]

Mayfair Mall is a gun free zone...which means normal Americans can't bring their legal guns with them to the mall....

Fair point, I checked the state laws on this, but never thought to look at the Mall’s own policy on acceptable behaviour. Still, given the shooting happened outside the Mall where presumably all these “good guys with guns” presumably had access to them in their cars, trucks, etc. before entering the Mall, my question stands, where were they?

Are you really going to be this stupid and petty? There are over 19.4 million Americans who can legally carry guns in this country.....a country of over 330 million people.....spread out across a land mass the size of western europe.......

And since the mall is a gun free zone....and you can't carry your gun into the mall, you doofus, if there are people in the area who can legally carry guns, they leave them at home rather than store them in their car where they are susceptible to criminals breaking into the car and stealing the guns....

That, you idiot, is another problem with gun free zones. They force gun owners to leave their legal guns at home, rather than carrying them for self defense in specific, gun free locations.....because getting caught with a gun in a gun free zone can cause you to lose your Right to carry a gun permanently....since normal gun owners obey laws...while this 15 year old criminal ignored the gun laws...

 

[2aguy]

...you don't even know the people involved...you are attacking Dr. Gary Kleck....not Dr. John Lott....

I know exactly to whom I was referring. Reading really isn’t your strong suit, is it?

No, you don't since you attacked Dr. Lott who didn't do the research you were attacking...you dumb ass....that research that you attacked was done by Dr. Kleck........and copied by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....

 

[2aguy]

Yeah.....the mall shooting was likely a gang shooting......a hispanic 15 year old has been arrested.

How do you know that it was a "gang shooting" or that the gun was "illegal", it could have legally belonged to his parents? "In the US, 4.6 million minors live in homes with at least one loaded and unsecured firearm." according to Kids & Guns | Giffords

The gun was illegal, you dumb ass, because the kid who had it was 15, and it is illegal for a 15 year old to buy, own, or carry a handgun anywhere, let alone a mall......and a 15 year old carrying a gun has the hallmarks of a gang member here in the U.S.

If he wasn't a gang member he was still breaking the law. But likely was a gang member.

 

[2aguy]

...meanwhile in America...

Oh look, another multiple shooting...

A suspect was pictured smiling in his booking photo after two people were killed and two others were injured in a shooting at a fast food restaurant in Nebraska.

Officers were called to the Sonic Drive-In at 1307 Cornhusker Road in Bellevue, a suburb of Omaha, on Saturday night. Sonic drive-in shooting suspect smiles in mugshot after 2 killed, 2 wounded

Yeah...he broke the law and will be punished....meanwhile, the 1.1 million Americans who don't break the law, used their legal guns to stop guys like this from committing rape, robbery and murder........

Like this.....Which of these guns would you take away from the victim before they were used for self defense?

Auto shop employees credited with taking down accused Rockledge gunman

ROCKLEDGE — A man armed with a .45-caliber handgun and a lot of ammunition wandered onto an auto repair shop property and began firing in the parking lot Friday afternoon, police said.

The gunman killed one employee and paralyzed a second. That's when the employees at Schlenker Automotive fought back with equal force, Rockledge police chief Joseph La Sata said.

"The manager, who was a concealed weapons permit holder, came out and engaged in gunfire in the parking lot," La Sata said. "The manager fled back inside the building, being chased by the gunman. Another Schlenker employee, who also had concealed weapons permit, engaged in gunfire with the suspect."

Police said the suspect in the homicide is Robert Lorenzo Bailey Jr., 28, of Cocoa. He was shot twice and was in critical condition at Health First's Holmes Regional Medical Center in Melbourne. Officers are keeping him under watch.
===================

And this....

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/good-guy-gun-stops-sex-assault-hiking-trail

According to The Blaze, Josh Williams, 39, nearly left his handgun at home when heading out to the hiking trail on a dark morning back in September, but he felt the nagging sensation that he should take it anyway. That turned out to be the right call because while on the trail at 5:30 a.m., Williams heard a woman scream loud enough to get past his music-blaring earbuds.

In the darkness, Williams shined his flashlight and discovered a woman being sexually assaulted and approached the perpetrator.

“I came up, pulled my gun and told him to get off of her,” Williams recalled. He then asked the man to get on his knees and asked to see his hands: “That way I knew he didn’t have a weapon. And at that point he was no threat, so I didn’t feel the need to shoot him.”

The perp ran away but thanks to a good description from both the victim and Williams, police were able to later apprehend 22-year-old Richard McEachern and charge him with sexual assault.

The victim was very glad Williams decided to carry that day and used a gun to save her from a dangerous situation. That was the first time Williams ever pointed his weapon at another person, but it confirmed for him the importance of the Second Amendment:

“It’s dark, and I don’t know what’s out there, so I have it to protect myself and other people. That’s what it’s all about anyway — to help other people with it, not just myself.
“I didn’t think I’d ever have to pull it. Did I want to? No, not at all. But just … right place, right time.”

And this.....

Good guy with a gun stops kidnapping

It was habit, not heroism, that caused Justin Pearson to grab his gun.

But seconds later, that weapon enabled Pearson to stop a kidnapping taking place just outside his Las Vegas home on Oct. 5.

“We heard this real loud noise outside,” said Pearson, 36. “I opened up the door, and this big BMW goes flying by — 60 mph in a 25 mph zone. I dialed 911 immediately.”

As he always does before leaving his house, Pearson, a concealed-carry weapon permit holder, put his pistol on his hip. The 911 operator asked for a license plate number, so Pearson moved down the street to get it.

“He had lost control of the car and almost went into a house at the end of the street,” Pearson said. The BMW then turned around and stopped in front of a neighbor’s yard, where a 6-year-old boy was standing.

“About 50 yards in front of me, the driver grabs this young child and starts stuffing him in the car,” Pearson said.

“‘Holy crap, he just took a child, and he’s trying to stuff him into the car!’” Pearson remembers telling the operator.

Pearson is 6-foot-4 but makes a beanpole look stocky. The kidnapper, Pearson recalls, was a similar height, but was a “solid” 250 pounds.

“He was a very big dude, and I’m not a menacing person by any means,” Pearson said. “I don’t think I could have physically stopped the guy. It would have been super ugly if it was just me versus him.”

Fortunately, Pearson had a trump card — a Heckler & Koch VP9 pistol legally resting on his right hip.


“I carry a concealed firearm everywhere I go,” Pearson said. “I lifted up my shirt and put my hand on my gun.”

“‘Hey, stop!’ I said, real loud. He turned and looked at me. There was just enough of a delay for the kid to get out of the car. I know he saw the firearm.”

With the boy out of the car and an armed citizen staring him down, the man decided to drive away. Pearson and his still-holstered pistol stopped a kidnapping. Police wouldn’t arrive for 17 minutes.

“If I didn’t have a firearm, I don’t think there’s much I could have done,” Pearson said.

A Metropolitan Police Department spokeswoman confirmed many of the details in Pearson’s story, including the date, time and location. Pearson said — and Metro confirmed — that the would-be kidnapper was the boy’s biological father, who didn’t have parental rights or permission to take the child.

This isn’t the first time Pearson has used a firearm to stop a crime.

“Many years ago, I was carrying and a guy pulled a knife on a friend of mine,” Pearson said. “I quickly drew my firearm, and the kid ran away.”


These kinds of stories rarely make the news. But they happen more often than we realize and underscore an important point. Concealed-carry weapon permit holders prevent crimes.

====

And this......

Attacker with knife flees after woman reveals her concealed carry gun, police say

A woman in Illinois was reportedly able to protect herself with her concealed carry firearm after a stranger with a knife jumped into her car.

Police said a woman who was parked near a shopping mall in Moline on Sunday was attacked by a man who fought his way into her car, according to WQAD 8.

During the fight, the man reportedly slashed the woman’s arm with a knife. He then ordered the woman to drive to Rock Island County, a rural area, according to police.
DC GUN-FREE ZONES CAUSE CONFUSION OVER LEGALITY OF GUN CARRY EVEN WITH A PERMIT

Once the woman stopped the car, she was able to reach her gun, which she had a concealed carry firearm permit for, WQAD 8 reported.

After the attacker saw the weapon, he reportedly ran off and she was able to drive herself to the hospital.

Police subsequently opened an investigation and arrested Floyd R. May, 61.

May was charged with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated battery with a weapon, unlawful use of a weapon by a felon and aggravated assault.
------

And this...

Fatal Lawndale shooting ruled self-defense, woman not charged

A woman who shot a man after he stabbed her multiple times Thursday afternoon in Lawndale acted in self-defense and will not be charged, police said.

About 4:05 p.m. Oct. 5, the 25-year-old man was shot in the chest when he stabbed the 25-year-old woman multiple times in the 4000 block of West 21st Street, Chicago Police said.

The woman was taken in serious condition to Mount Sinai Hospital, and the man was pronounced dead at the scene at 4:48 p.m., authorities said.

The Cook County medical examiner’s office identified him as Pleasure Cardell Singleton Jr.

The stabbing was believed to be a domestic incident, police said, but the nature of the relationship between the two wasn’t released.
======

And these.....

Would-be robber fatally shot by resident after forcing family into basement

A man was shot and killed inside a home in Hammond, Indiana, Friday morning while attempting to rob the residents.

According to a statement from the Hammond Police Department, the suspect, who has not been publicly identified, entered the home through the front door around 7:30 a.m. The suspect said he knew of a safe in the basement of the home and announced a robbery while threatening the residents with the firearm.

The suspect then forced three residents into the basement, but unbeknown to the would-be robber, there was a fourth resident inside the house as well. The fourth resident retrieved a handgun, and when the suspect came out of the basement and walked into the kitchen, he shot the suspect multiple times in the chest.

Police were called, and when officers arrived on the scene, the suspect, who was only identified as a black male, was found lying on the kitchen floor. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

==========

9/8/17

Taco Bell employees shoot, kill armed robbery suspect

CLEVELAND – Three employees at a Cleveland Taco Bell shot and killed a suspect during an attempted robbery, according to police.

Officers responded to the restaurant on W. 117th street at 2:45 a.m. Wednesday morning for a report of a robbery with shots fired.

When police arrived, they found a suspect with multiple gunshot wounds. Officers administered first aid until EMS arrived. The suspect later died at MetroHealth Medical Center. The medical examiner later identified the suspect as 24-year-old Cleveland resident De'Carlo Jackson.

Another man, believed to be Jackson's accomplice, had already taken off by the time officers arrived.

Police say a preliminary investigation indicates that three Taco Bell employees, all armed, shot at the two suspects after they came into the restaurant wearing masks and ordered the employees to the ground at gunpoint.
==============

8/23/17

Police: Robber tries to take woman's purse, flees when 57-year-old shows gun at west Little Rock shopping center

The would-be robber reportedly grabbed the woman’s purse while it rested on her shoulder, at which point, the victim brandished a weapon she had stored inside.

According to the report, the assailant then fled west through the parking lot of the grocery store and behind Belk.

No items were listed as stolen from the woman

 

[2aguy]

No wait... another one.

Police: Five people shot, one dead in Phoenix party shooting

A woman is dead and at least four others are injured after a shooting during a party in Phoenix, police say.

www.fox10phoenix.com

Maybe America needs some gun control, you can't shoot teenagers if you haven't got guns.

And you can't stop rape, robbery and murder with nice thoughts......

 

[2aguy]

No wait... another one.

Police: Five people shot, one dead in Phoenix party shooting

A woman is dead and at least four others are injured after a shooting during a party in Phoenix, police say.

www.fox10phoenix.com

Maybe America needs some gun control, you can't shoot teenagers if you haven't got guns.

We have plenty of gun control......what we need more of is democrat party members losing office....it is their policies that drive 95% of our gun crime in this country....they keep releasing known, violent, repeat gun offenders over and over again....

 

[2aguy]

Hey, genius.....which British gun control law stops this guy from walking into a mall, a church or a theater in Britain and shooting people?

Erm…because he’s in America. I suspect he’d have to get on a plane and our airport security would probably find his gun…

The shooter who was already in Britain, you moron....

Three men have been stabbed to death in a weekend of bloodshed in London that also left an “innocent" woman fighting for her life.
-----
Also on Sunday, police were called following reports of a shooting in Westgate Street, Hackney, at around 8.50pm.
-----
"We have been told that the area was busy at the time of the shooting, and I am confident that someone has information that will help our investigation.

Three men killed and woman shot in weekend of bloodshed in London

Scotland Yard are investigating three separate killings

www.standard.co.uk

 

[2aguy]

Hey, genius.....which British gun control law stops this guy from walking into a mall, a church or a theater in Britain and shooting people?

Erm…because he’s in America. I suspect he’d have to get on a plane and our airport security would probably find his gun…

This shooter is already in Britain with his illegal gun...

Detectives investigating the death of a “loving and devoted” father-of-two in east London have charged a man.
Jason Diallo, 30, died after being shot in the head by suspects who fled the scene in a 4x4.
Paramedics battled to save him but he died at the scene in Balfour Road, Ilford, on Sunday, November 1.

Murder charge after father-of-two, 30, gunned down in Ilford drive-by

Jason Diallo, 30, from Ilford, was described as a ‘kind, gentle and loving man’

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Vagabond63]

...there have been a number of studies on this...

Yes there have and none of them outside the “John (lies a) Lott gun nut bubble” show any corelation between declining crime rates and increased gun ownership. Even the last link you posted to support your theory doesn’t mention guns. Homicide is declining around the world because we’re getting old