Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[beagle9]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

 

[Skylar]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

An 'option' that allows Christians to ignore any law they don't like. While the rest of us still have to follow the law.

Nope. Christians don't get special privileges. They don't get special exemptions. They're treated like everyone else.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Christians offend others all the time, and some lie about it, as we see above. You folks use the same old-anti civil rights arguments.

This is going to happen.

You can't stop it.

You will never repeal it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Can you please provide a link to where the US Supreme Court already decided the homosexuals vs the States case of 2015? I wasn't aware that had been heard and Decided yet..

Can you assure the readers here how if individual christians are being successfully sued by the aggressive LGBT cult/lobby, how collections of individual christians (churches) will be immune to those same lawsuits?

Yes, so the question is how does one separate themselves from their religion and faith, and become enablers of things in which the Bible speaks against ?

Nope. PA laws explicitly exempt religious corporations. If you're not a religious corporation, you're not exempt.

The question is....why do you keep ignoring this crystal clear distinction? Surely you realize that the law doesn't change just because you ignore it.

Oh, and the Bible says nothing about selling wedding cake.

No one is ignoring anything, but rather just challenging the rational and validity behind the laws at hand. Do you think that man isn't or can't be falable in life? Judges and lawmakers are men and women, and yes they can make huge mistakes when making rulings, interpretations, or laws.

I think that the law should apply the same way to everyone. And that Christians should be treated with the same respect and consideration that everyone else receives under these laws.

If you don't like PA laws, change them.

They may need to be changed some, and that might be what the court will recognize if the right lawyers with their presentations and interpretations being presented can convince them of. They need another way of looking at things finally in the end. The cake baker should have been able to opt out of the situation as based upon his religion and faith. The Church exist within the person as it is carried within that person's heart and soul, and it really amazes me how the courts can't see it that away when they should see it that way according to the constitution. Like I said how does one practice ones faith and religion in his or her life, if the state or feds say otherwise about it ? So as one comes out of the shadows, then the other has to go in to the shadows I guess.

Once the Christians were free and offended no one, but now their religion and faith is offensive in America ? Now the President is on the bandwagon against the Christians in America as well ? How did this happen, because this is absolutely not the America that our families and forefathers grew up in, so what is it then ? Is it a police state for some that are considered as the others now, where as they are no longer granted their freedoms as it were, but instead they are chastised and harassed under the current conditions in which they are living under ? The Bible tells of these things in it's writings that are over hundreds and hundreds of years old, but it is being scoffed at by an evil generation now ? WOW!

Christians offend all the time.

 

[beagle9]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

An 'option' that allows Christians to ignore any law they don't like. While the rest of us still have to follow the law.

Nope. Christians don't get special privileges. They don't get special exemptions. They're treated like everyone else.

What's happened to the children who are now adults in this nation, is simply a shame and disgrace to say the least. Payday is coming for those who have turned this nation into what it is now fast becoming, and it is not man for whom they should worry about no, but rather it is God who holds the keys to life and the second death within his hands, and for whom can take those who refused his guidance upon how to stay away from the evil one as best they could in life (none perfect), and to give them their due in which they have sought after hard and heavy in life, but only if he does not truly repent.. Now even though they were warned time and time again about such things, they still refuse instruction. Now it is their freedom of choice however in which he has given them to use, and there will be no complaining come the day of judgement. Their eyes shall be opened to the truth in which they have refused in their life as adults, and there will be no place in which to hide from him (NO PLACE), and they shall know this. All Christians want to do, is to give them their space, and to expect the same in return, but that is not what is happening anymore now is it ? The challenging of Christians will get worse and worse as the days and possible years go by (no man shall no the time nor the hour, yet a man can read the whether can't he ?). Can not the signs of the times be read as a man can read the whether ? When a man see's a storm, does he not call it a storm that is approaching him ? When a man see's sin in action, does he not call it sin when he see's it in action ? If a man see's a looming disaster, does he not take cover ? Think about it..

 

[Skylar]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

An 'option' that allows Christians to ignore any law they don't like. While the rest of us still have to follow the law.

Nope. Christians don't get special privileges. They don't get special exemptions. They're treated like everyone else.

What's happened to the children who are now adults in this nation, is simply a shame and disgrace to say the least. Payday is coming for those who have turned this nation into what it is now fast becoming, and it is not man for whom they should worry about no, but rather it is God who holds the keys to life and the second death within his hands, and for whom can take those who refused his guidance upon how to stay away from the evil one as best they could in life (none perfect), and to give them their due in which they have sought after hard and heavy in life, but only if he does not truly repent.. Now even though they were warned time and time again about such things, they still refuse instruction. Now it is their freedom of choice however in which he has given them to use, and there will be no complaining come the day of judgement. Their eyes shall be opened to the truth in which they have refused in their life as adults, and there will be no place in which to hide from him (NO PLACE), and they shall know this. All Christians want to do, is to give them their space, and to expect the same in return, but that is not what is happening anymore now is it ? The challenging of Christians will get worse and worse as the days and possible years go by (no man shall no the time nor the hour, yet a man can read the whether can't he ?). Can not the signs of the times be read as a man can read the whether ? When a man see's a storm, does he not call it a storm that is approaching him ? When a man see's sin in action, does he not call it sin when he see's it in action ? If a man see's a looming disaster, does he not take cover ? Think about it..

Its neither a 'disgrace' nor a 'shame' that Christians are treated like everyone else. Its equal protection under the law. CHristians have no special privileges sand no special exemptions from the law.

 

[Syriusly]

Would you require muslims to perform gay weddings? I keep looking for a muslim baker, florist or photographer getting sued by gays but for some odd reason I cannot find them anywhere.

Links anyone?

This is not complicated

ANY business is obligated to follow public accomodation laws- if your local PA laws forbid discrimination against homosexuals, then it doesn't matter whether the business owner is Christian, Muslim, black, white, man, woman- he or she is obligated to do business with a person regardless of whether they are a homosexual or not.

 

[Syriusly]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

An 'option' that allows Christians to ignore any law they don't like. While the rest of us still have to follow the law.

Nope. Christians don't get special privileges. They don't get special exemptions. They're treated like everyone else.

What's happened to the children who are now adults in this nation, is simply a shame and disgrace to say the least. Payday is coming for those who have turned this nation into what it is now fast becoming, and it is not man for whom they should worry about no, but rather it is God who holds the keys to life and the second death within his hands, and for whom can take those who refused his guidance upon how to stay away from the evil one as best they could in life (none perfect), and to give them their due in which they have sought after hard and heavy in life, but only if he does not truly repent.. Now even though they were warned time and time again about such things, they still refuse instruction. Now it is their freedom of choice however in which he has given them to use, and there will be no complaining come the day of judgement. Their eyes shall be opened to the truth in which they have refused in their life as adults, and there will be no place in which to hide from him (NO PLACE), and they shall know this. All Christians want to do, is to give them their space, and to expect the same in return, but that is not what is happening anymore now is it ? The challenging of Christians will get worse and worse as the days and possible years go by (no man shall no the time nor the hour, yet a man can read the whether can't he ?). Can not the signs of the times be read as a man can read the whether ? When a man see's a storm, does he not call it a storm that is approaching him ? When a man see's sin in action, does he not call it sin when he see's it in action ? If a man see's a looming disaster, does he not take cover ? Think about it..

What a wall of text.

Christians receive equal treatment under the law and are expected to follow the law equally.

 

[Syriusly]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

Again- you are asking for special rules just for Christians.

Do you not even see the problem with that?

 

[Syriusly]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

No. What is being said quite plainly is that you cannot use your religion as an excuse to violate civil law. Satanists wanting to practice human sacrifice can't do that either. Tyranny!!!!!

You compare satanist wanting to practice human sacrifice with Christians merely wanting to opt out of participating in something that the Bible tells them is sinful activity or the promoting of sexual immorality if they do participate in it ? In your world, can a Christian even own a business any more, and somehow remain a Christian ? How does a Christian separate oneself from his or her faith, and to somehow keep from promoting the things in which the Bible says is sin ? .

Such an excuse can be used to justify any behavior by a Christian- look at this court ruling

Here, for example, is the declaration that the Supreme Court of Virginia used to invalidate a marriage between a black man and a white woman in 1878:

The purity of public morals," the court declared, "the moral and physical development of both races….require that they should be kept distinct and separate… that connections and alliances so unnatural that God and nature seem to forbid them, should be prohibited by positive law, and be subject to no evasion.

- See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/4708#sthash.ulRMAqia.dpuf

 

[Jarlaxle]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

What we're saying is what we've always said: Christians are subject to the same laws as everyone else. They don't get special treatment. They don't get special exceptions.

You're demanding one special, more lenient set of rules for Christians. And a second, stricter set of rules for everyone else.

Nope.

Nope just an option needed to not be forced to participate in something that is anti-Christian belief is all, and nope there is no need for a stricter set of rules wanted for everyone else, but just an allowance to allow a Christian to not be forced to participate or partake in the things that are dangerous to a Christians core values and understandings of the very religion that a Christian believes in. How hard can that be ?

An 'option' that allows Christians to ignore any law they don't like. While the rest of us still have to follow the law.

Nope. Christians don't get special privileges. They don't get special exemptions. They're treated like everyone else.

What's happened to the children who are now adults in this nation, is simply a shame and disgrace to say the least. Payday is coming for those who have turned this nation into what it is now fast becoming, and it is not man for whom they should worry about no, but rather it is God who holds the keys to life and the second death within his hands, and for whom can take those who refused his guidance upon how to stay away from the evil one as best they could in life (none perfect), and to give them their due in which they have sought after hard and heavy in life, but only if he does not truly repent.. Now even though they were warned time and time again about such things, they still refuse instruction. Now it is their freedom of choice however in which he has given them to use, and there will be no complaining come the day of judgement. Their eyes shall be opened to the truth in which they have refused in their life as adults, and there will be no place in which to hide from him (NO PLACE), and they shall know this. All Christians want to do, is to give them their space, and to expect the same in return, but that is not what is happening anymore now is it ? The challenging of Christians will get worse and worse as the days and possible years go by (no man shall no the time nor the hour, yet a man can read the whether can't he ?). Can not the signs of the times be read as a man can read the whether ? When a man see's a storm, does he not call it a storm that is approaching him ? When a man see's sin in action, does he not call it sin when he see's it in action ? If a man see's a looming disaster, does he not take cover ? Think about it..

Please confine your sermons to the appropriate forum, dude.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Christians are subject to the same law as all Americans.

Why would anyone expect special treatment in a secular state because of his religion.

 

[Seawytch]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

No. What is being said quite plainly is that you cannot use your religion as an excuse to violate civil law. Satanists wanting to practice human sacrifice can't do that either. Tyranny!!!!!

You compare satanist wanting to practice human sacrifice with Christians merely wanting to opt out of participating in something that the Bible tells them is sinful activity or the promoting of sexual immorality if they do participate in it ? In your world, can a Christian even own a business any more, and somehow remain a Christian ? How does a Christian separate oneself from his or her faith, and to somehow keep from promoting the things in which the Bible says is sin ? A Christian is not to partake in such things as is written right, but to instead help those for whom want help if they ask for it, but not force it upon them right ? Will America soon get to the point that a Christian becomes an outsider who will have no rights what so ever in this nation, and so they will have to go underground in order to practice the faith when it is all said and done ? Will the Christians in this nation be treated like the Christians in other nations, where they are being persecuted and killed for being Christian ? Will all these wants of a new generation, now make this nation a new non-Christian unfriendly nation for Christians to live, and otherwise make it a nation of evilness and sorrows that will soon become the new norm or has become the new norm ?

It appears that this nation is on it's way to that level just as fast and hard as it can go. Again no one is fooled by any of this, but it is interesting to actually see it unfold right before our very eyes finally. For so long the youth figured that these things would not come in their life times when they were spoken about, and that is what their hopes were when such things were spoken about to them, but here it all is, and here it all comes, so be ready always for the signs of the times are being revealed to all in these latter days in which we all do live.

It's an analogy, Drama Queen. You want Christians to be exempt from civil law...but no other religion? How about them moooooslums. Should they get to just "opt out" of whatever laws they feel violate their religion?

 

[beagle9]

Would you require muslims to perform gay weddings? I keep looking for a muslim baker, florist or photographer getting sued by gays but for some odd reason I cannot find them anywhere.

Links anyone?

This is not complicated

ANY business is obligated to follow public accomodation laws- if your local PA laws forbid discrimination against homosexuals, then it doesn't matter whether the business owner is Christian, Muslim, black, white, man, woman- he or she is obligated to do business with a person regardless of whether they are a homosexual or not.

Yes, but did the government, judges or lawmakers consider all angles of every possible scenario in which the laws would bring about when they were enacted and/or were considered before being enacted for all or against all who opposed them ? Can any group with a new twist in life, just make use of the laws willy nilly now, in which were maybe not intended to cover every single scenario or situation out there ? They are doing this by adopting the laws in order to protect their interest against the opposition for whom they know will be soon mounting a case against them or maybe even trying to avoid them in a situation or case such as with the baker. They do this whether they are right or wrong upon what they might be asking for in life, and both parties involved will fight for what they believe in, and that is always expected. The problem here is exactly what the baker and customer had encountered, where as the Christian baker should be allowed to opt out of the situation instead of being forced to go along with it by governments strong arming him to do so in that situation, but there was no relief mechanism or definitions added in the law in which should have been added for some citizens to opt out as based upon their religious beliefs or cultural standards in which they live by and go by in life.

Now It's the same isn't it, where as the debate rages on about federal funds (tax payer money's), in which are attempting to be thrown at or could be next to fund abortion right, and to promote abortion through that planned parenthood group or organization in which is also causing havoc and debate now in America right ? Again there are Christians along with countless others who are not wanting to engage in that mess either or to have their tax dollars fund that mess at all. So now the government has been wringing it's hands over that issue just as well, and so far the tax payers pushing back along with these religious organizations have held back the tidal wave coming down on them from above. There will be no place safe for people to practice their faith in the end if it all keeps up, and this is why democracy should be allowed to work as it should in America, and the votes should be honored when they are in on the issues about these things be it one way or the other. Both or all parties can exist together in our society, but they must be allowed the proper space in order to do so, and then respect for one another as human beings comes next until the day of judgement comes for all. If by popularity one shrinks and the other grows in areas, then this is no different than what has always went on in America, but when government intervenes or meddles where it shouldn't, then people begin to get abused by this action taken by government.

The baker and the customer could have easily resolved the issue on their own with maybe proper mediation added (in order to protect both peoples rights in a situation), and this by either local government or even federal gov. helping out and not using force against either of them instead. It can be done (remember the beer summit or sit down?). Not sure how that went, but it was an example of the tricky situations that people can get themselves into at times, and how the government tried diplomatically to resolve the issue. Did it work ?

Now it seems that the federal government has got to come to the rescue of every single crying group or individual out there anymore, and it's not because they actually care, but it's more about the potential voter base they figure is at stake over all else in the nation now. The government seems to be living in some sort of bubble that some groups has placed it in, and so it has become impotent to some, but on fire for others.

The only thing that the government should be doing is keeping the peace always in America, and then arresting people who break the law with violence in which damages the peace and harmony between all groups that live peacefully in America. Disagreements between people shouldn't ever be on the Federal Governments radar and/or agenda ever, unless it gets ugly and violent between the groups or individuals in which can cause serious harm in society towards one another when that occurs. We have been far from this type of problem in these situations, but government has been meddling badly, and has been stirring up or creating a lot of bad stuff out in the societies lately. We need better government, who represents all in America again, and even the Christians once again in America as well.

 

[beagle9]

Christians don't get a pass because they are Christians.

So what you are saying, is that a christian is not allowed to be a christian in certain settings in America?

No. What is being said quite plainly is that you cannot use your religion as an excuse to violate civil law. Satanists wanting to practice human sacrifice can't do that either. Tyranny!!!!!

You compare satanist wanting to practice human sacrifice with Christians merely wanting to opt out of participating in something that the Bible tells them is sinful activity or the promoting of sexual immorality if they do participate in it ? In your world, can a Christian even own a business any more, and somehow remain a Christian ? How does a Christian separate oneself from his or her faith, and to somehow keep from promoting the things in which the Bible says is sin ? .

Such an excuse can be used to justify any behavior by a Christian- look at this court ruling

Here, for example, is the declaration that the Supreme Court of Virginia used to invalidate a marriage between a black man and a white woman in 1878:

The purity of public morals," the court declared, "the moral and physical development of both races….require that they should be kept distinct and separate… that connections and alliances so unnatural that God and nature seem to forbid them, should be prohibited by positive law, and be subject to no evasion.

- See more at: History News Network Why the Ugly Rhetoric Against Gay Marriage Is Familiar to this Historian of Miscegenation

It was wrong and it was corrected, so what's your point ? The issues of today are still being debated as to their validity or potential wrong that they may be, and they will be worked out soon just like they always have been in America. Our issues of today could be wrong and they could be right, so I guess some guy like you will pick up a book 85 years from now, and possibly see all the things we may have gotten wrong right now in this nation or society, and then try and use that on his society in order to justify something he wants just as well for that society ? LOL

 

[Skylar]

Would you require muslims to perform gay weddings? I keep looking for a muslim baker, florist or photographer getting sued by gays but for some odd reason I cannot find them anywhere.

Links anyone?

This is not complicated

ANY business is obligated to follow public accomodation laws- if your local PA laws forbid discrimination against homosexuals, then it doesn't matter whether the business owner is Christian, Muslim, black, white, man, woman- he or she is obligated to do business with a person regardless of whether they are a homosexual or not.

Yes, but did the government, judges or lawmakers consider all angles of every possible scenario in which the laws would bring about when they were enacted and/or were considered before being enacted for all or against all who opposed them ? Can any group with a new twist in life, just make use of the laws willy nilly now, in which were maybe not intended to cover every single scenario or situation out there ?

PA laws certainly cover this one. If you're going to do business with the public, you can't discriminate against someone because of their race, sexual orentation, religion, gender, etc.

Christians are subject to these laws just like Hindus just like agnostics, just like Muslims. You're not special and you're not exempt.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Almost any guy who picks up a book in 2100 and reads that there were folks like you, beagle9, is going to ask, "What was wrong with those folks?"

 

[beagle9]

Almost any guy who picks up a book in 2100 and reads that there were folks like you, beagle9, is going to ask, "What was wrong with those folks?"

LOL

 

[JakeStarkey]

 

[beagle9]

Almost any guy who picks up a book in 2100 and reads that there were folks like you, beagle9, is going to ask, "What was wrong with those folks?"

Or say wow look at where it all went wrong back then, and you know that beagle9 was right because look at where we are right now because of all of that back then. We are slaves now, so when can we steal another book to read about the past without our slave masters catching us, and thank God we can still read...