Should the gop be willing to shut down nonessential govt functions to stop obamacare?

[Polk]

actually both sides, and that is probably a good thing. Total congressional gridlock is the best thing for the country.

Everything they do is wrong, send them all home.

I'll give you credit, because labeling both sides as obstructionists has more logical import than the claims being made by others.

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

I never made that claim. I've consistently stated through this thread that the "guilty party" is a matter of opinion, but I did point out a deficiency in the argument that says the Democrats are more at fault. If you consider that blaming Republicans, that's your view, but it doesn't mesh with what I've stated.

 

[Redfish]

I'll give you credit, because labeling both sides as obstructionists has more logical import than the claims being made by others.

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

I never made that claim. I've consistently stated through this thread that the "guilty party" is a matter of opinion, but I did point out a deficiency in the argument that says the Democrats are more at fault. If you consider that blaming Republicans, that's your view, but it doesn't mesh with what I've stated.

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

 

[zeke]

Hey redfish, what are the items on the agenda of the Dems in Congress that, if they don't get their way, that they are willing to shut down the government?

From what I read it is only the Repubs in Congress that are declaring they will shut down the government IF Obamacare is not de funded.

But then again, I don't watch FOX or read Breitbart or follow the Heritage Foundation.

So what do the Dems feel so strongly about that they will shut down government?

 

[Edgetho]

actually both sides, and that is probably a good thing. Total congressional gridlock is the best thing for the country.

Everything they do is wrong, send them all home.

I'll give you credit, because labeling both sides as obstructionists has more logical import than the claims being made by others.

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

Think about this.... Republicans don't like Politics and we REALLY don't like Politicians.

Most of us could go through the rest of our lives without ever thinking about Politics and be very happy.

dimocraps? dimocraps think the world centers around politics. dimocraps think that only the government is capable of dispensing justice, that only the government can be fair, that only the government can be equitable and that only the government can be trusted.

dimocraps are BIG believers in Big Government with one Major caveat.... As long as they have control.

So if they can convince the average Republican that "They all do it" (the 'bandwagon' equivalency) or that "Your side does it too" (the tu quoque equivalency) then they quite correctly assume that the average Conservative is just going to stay home

It's Voter Suppression. And it works.

And it's popular.

Most dimocrap morons don't even realize what they're doing when they do it. No clue. It's just by rote. Like a child wearing her Mother's Lipstick or the little boy putting on his Father's shoes.

But it still has the desired effect.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen otherwise good, decent, hard-working, tax-paying, God Fearing, patriotic Americans fall for it.

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE PARTIES. GIGANTIC

But if dimocrap scum can convince you that it's not worth your time to vote..... Guess who wins? Guess who's gonna go vote for their free obama phone or the continuation of massive food stamp give-aways or stealing from people who work for it and giving it to dimocraps scum.

Don't fall for it. And when ever you hear a decent Patriotic American say it, or even hint it.... Set him or her straight.

The parties are not the same. It's the difference between Freedom and tyranny.

That important

 

[zeke]

I'll give you credit, because labeling both sides as obstructionists has more logical import than the claims being made by others.

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

Think about this.... Republicans don't like Politics and we REALLY don't like Politicians.

Most of us could go through the rest of our lives without ever thinking about Politics and be very happy.

dimocraps? dimocraps think the world centers around politics. dimocraps think that only the government is capable of dispensing justice, that only the government can be fair, that only the government can be equitable and that only the government can be trusted.

dimocraps are BIG believers in Big Government with one Major caveat.... As long as they have control.

So if they can convince the average Republican that "They all do it" (the 'bandwagon' equivalency) or that "Your side does it too" (the tu quoque equivalency) then they quite correctly assume that the average Conservative is just going to stay home

It's Voter Suppression. And it works.

And it's popular.

Most dimocrap morons don't even realize what they're doing when they do it. No clue. It's just by rote. Like a child wearing her Mother's Lipstick or the little boy putting on his Father's shoes.

But it still has the desired effect.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen otherwise good, decent, hard-working, tax-paying, God Fearing, patriotic Americans fall for it.

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE PARTIES. GIGANTIC

But if dimocrap scum can convince you that it's not worth your time to vote..... Guess who wins? Guess who's gonna go vote for their free obama phone or the continuation of massive food stamp give-aways or stealing from people who work for it and giving it to dimocraps scum.

Don't fall for it. And when ever you hear a decent Patriotic American say it, or even hint it.... Set him or her straight.

The parties are not the same. It's the difference between Freedom and tyranny.

That important

Smells like desperation in here today. You all are grasping at ANYTHING to explain why fewer and fewer people identify with Repub causes. Or why Repubs aren't winning broader support.

If it is not the "lame stream media" it's "voter suppression" by claiming they "all do it".

Funny shit and crazy excuses. But that's all they are; excuses.

Because face it, Repub ideas for todays world SUCK. Whatever those ideas are.

 

[Seawytch]

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

Read more: The New New Deal: Why the GOP Became the Party of No | TIME.com
QUOTE]




when the president is a marxist collectivist, trying to keep him from passing marxist collectivist legislation is the right thing to do.

During the 2 years that the dems had both houses, we got the worst piece of legislation in the history of the nation rammed up our asses (obamacare).

Call it whatever you like, the GOP is doing the right thing for our country by blocking obama as much as they possibly can.

The "two year majority" lie has been debunked to Sunday. It was more like two months.

It's called unprecedented obstructionism by the minority party. You can google it.

I wonder how you would feel if it were a Republican President that won two elections in an electoral landslide, but the minority Democratic party decided they would oppose any and all of that Republican President's agenda. I'm sure you'd be just hunky dory with the cloture and fillibuster rules then wouldn't you?

 

[Redfish]

It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

Read more: The New New Deal: Why the GOP Became the Party of No | TIME.com
QUOTE]




when the president is a marxist collectivist, trying to keep him from passing marxist collectivist legislation is the right thing to do.

During the 2 years that the dems had both houses, we got the worst piece of legislation in the history of the nation rammed up our asses (obamacare).

Call it whatever you like, the GOP is doing the right thing for our country by blocking obama as much as they possibly can.

The "two year majority" lie has been debunked to Sunday. It was more like two months.

It's called unprecedented obstructionism by the minority party. You can google it.

I wonder how you would feel if it were a Republican President that won two elections in an electoral landslide, but the minority Democratic party decided they would oppose any and all of that Republican President's agenda. I'm sure you'd be just hunky dory with the cloture and fillibuster rules then wouldn't you?

you just described Bush's second term.

 

[Redfish]

Hey redfish, what are the items on the agenda of the Dems in Congress that, if they don't get their way, that they are willing to shut down the government?

From what I read it is only the Repubs in Congress that are declaring they will shut down the government IF Obamacare is not de funded.

But then again, I don't watch FOX or read Breitbart or follow the Heritage Foundation.

So what do the Dems feel so strongly about that they will shut down government?

The house is going to pass a CR that will fund all govt functions except obamacare, there will be no shutdown of the govt if this bill is passed and signed into law. The house is complying with the will of a vast majority of american citizens, large businesses, unions, and small businesses in stopping obamacare from implementation.

If the dems and obama do not approve this bill then THEY will be the ones shutting down the government.

But, in answer to your question, the dems will shut down the govt if they don't get full implementation of the worst piece of legislation in the history of this nation,

 

[Redfish]

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

Think about this.... Republicans don't like Politics and we REALLY don't like Politicians.

Most of us could go through the rest of our lives without ever thinking about Politics and be very happy.

dimocraps? dimocraps think the world centers around politics. dimocraps think that only the government is capable of dispensing justice, that only the government can be fair, that only the government can be equitable and that only the government can be trusted.

dimocraps are BIG believers in Big Government with one Major caveat.... As long as they have control.

So if they can convince the average Republican that "They all do it" (the 'bandwagon' equivalency) or that "Your side does it too" (the tu quoque equivalency) then they quite correctly assume that the average Conservative is just going to stay home

It's Voter Suppression. And it works.

And it's popular.

Most dimocrap morons don't even realize what they're doing when they do it. No clue. It's just by rote. Like a child wearing her Mother's Lipstick or the little boy putting on his Father's shoes.

But it still has the desired effect.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen otherwise good, decent, hard-working, tax-paying, God Fearing, patriotic Americans fall for it.

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE PARTIES. GIGANTIC

But if dimocrap scum can convince you that it's not worth your time to vote..... Guess who wins? Guess who's gonna go vote for their free obama phone or the continuation of massive food stamp give-aways or stealing from people who work for it and giving it to dimocraps scum.

Don't fall for it. And when ever you hear a decent Patriotic American say it, or even hint it.... Set him or her straight.

The parties are not the same. It's the difference between Freedom and tyranny.

That important

Smells like desperation in here today. You all are grasping at ANYTHING to explain why fewer and fewer people identify with Repub causes. Or why Repubs aren't winning broader support.

If it is not the "lame stream media" it's "voter suppression" by claiming they "all do it".

Funny shit and crazy excuses. But that's all they are; excuses.

Because face it, Repub ideas for todays world SUCK. Whatever those ideas are.

sorry, dude. but its the marxist socialist collectivist ideas of the dem/libs that the people are fed up with. We tried them and they failed miserably.


americans want freedom, not oppressive intrusive government.

 

[mudwhistle]

Hey red fish, what are the items on the agenda of the Dems in Congress that, if they don't get their way, that they are willing to shut down the government?

From what I read it is only the Repubs in Congress that are declaring they will shut down the government IF Obamacare is not de funded.

But then again, I don't watch FOX or read Breitbart or follow the Heritage Foundation.

So what do the Dems feel so strongly about that they will shut down government?

The Dems agenda was to first take over the media.

Then they bad-mouthed everything the GOP did.

Then when they took back Congress pass nothing but protest legislation.

Then when they won the White House they stop passing budgets and blame it on Bush or the GOP.

That's their agenda.

 

[TooTall]

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

I never made that claim. I've consistently stated through this thread that the "guilty party" is a matter of opinion, but I did point out a deficiency in the argument that says the Democrats are more at fault. If you consider that blaming Republicans, that's your view, but it doesn't mesh with what I've stated.

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

These are the facts that are ignored by Dem partisan hacks.

 

[Ava]

The GOP needs to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting like a bunch of 3 years throwing a pissy fit because they didn't get their way (even though the individual mandate was a republican plan to begin with)

The affordable care act is the law of the land, deal with it.

so was slavery at one time. so was the prohibition of women voting.

all laws are not good laws. ACA is terrible legislation, probably the worst in our history

Yes, and this is what we get when laws that are not read, are passed. Now, who doesn't know it is a train-wreck to quote the bill's author....Max Baucus....

 

[thereisnospoon]

.

I've got a dumb question here, but I'd love an answer.

So according to the poll, most respondents say shutting down much of the government to stop Obamacare would be worth any ramifications, I assume political. So let's walk through what I think you're saying:

1. Much of the government is shut down, the shit hits the fan
2. The Dems can point at the GOP and say, "they did it"
3. The GOP says "yeah, we did it, we don't care about the consequences"
4. The consequences are that an angry public votes a bunch of Republicans out
5. Now there are more Dems and they have more power
6. These new Dems team with the old Dems and come up with all kinds of new shit the GOP hates
7. The GOP is powerless to stop it, since they fell on the sword over Obamacare

Is that what we're saying here? That this act of defiance is worth handing even more power to the Dems?

.

I do not think 'shutting down government' is a logical position to take.

 

[earlycuyler]

Yes or no and what do you believe the ramifications would be? And I don't mean lost elections. Individual political seats are not more important than the health (not medical) of our nation as a whole.
The dems screamed the sky was falling when the thought of sequester wasmentioned. Reality showed different.

Im sick of the gop being forced to "go along" just to keep the gun away from their heads. This is a bipartisan mess overall and im sick of the dems getting a free pass. If the govt shuts down it will be because BOTH sides refused to compromise. BOTH

Congress is there to fulfill the will of the people not FUCKING KING OBAMA.

I say fuck these stupid games and play hardball. Sadly I don't think Boehner has the spine required to do what's right.

The ramifications would be this, life will go for normal people, and some gubment workers would get a week or two off. Thats about it.

 

[Polk]

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?

I never made that claim. I've consistently stated through this thread that the "guilty party" is a matter of opinion, but I did point out a deficiency in the argument that says the Democrats are more at fault. If you consider that blaming Republicans, that's your view, but it doesn't mesh with what I've stated.

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

The House passed a budget that they knew wouldn't pass the Senate and wouldn't be signed by the President.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I never made that claim. I've consistently stated through this thread that the "guilty party" is a matter of opinion, but I did point out a deficiency in the argument that says the Democrats are more at fault. If you consider that blaming Republicans, that's your view, but it doesn't mesh with what I've stated.

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

The House passed a budget that they knew wouldn't pass the Senate and wouldn't be signed by the President.

How many votes did Obama's budget get?

Now sit down and be quiet.

 

[Redfish]

I never made that claim. I've consistently stated through this thread that the "guilty party" is a matter of opinion, but I did point out a deficiency in the argument that says the Democrats are more at fault. If you consider that blaming Republicans, that's your view, but it doesn't mesh with what I've stated.

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

The House passed a budget that they knew wouldn't pass the Senate and wouldn't be signed by the President.

that is always what happens, thats why they discuss the bill in the senate, have a vote and then convene a conference committee to negotiate a bill that is acceptable to both sides, it has always worked that way until dingy harry refused to allow the process to operate.

Do you know why? Was he afraid that a house bill would pass in the senate ?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Bingo

 

[Polk]

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

The House passed a budget that they knew wouldn't pass the Senate and wouldn't be signed by the President.

that is always what happens, thats why they discuss the bill in the senate, have a vote and then convene a conference committee to negotiate a bill that is acceptable to both sides, it has always worked that way until dingy harry refused to allow the process to operate.

Do you know why? Was he afraid that a house bill would pass in the senate ?

No, it's because the Senate calendar is jammed with filibusters.

 

[Polk]

If the topic is 5 years with no budget, then the dems are clearly the obstructors. The GOP led house has passed budget bills every year but Reid has not let a single one be discussed or voted on in the senate. He has not allowed a conference committee on any budget bill. Reid is the reason we have not had a national budget for 5 years.

The House passed a budget that they knew wouldn't pass the Senate and wouldn't be signed by the President.

How many votes did Obama's budget get?

Now sit down and be quiet.

The President can't introduce a budget, since he's not a member of the chamber. Senate Republicans have pushed bills that they've labeled as "Obama's budget" based off of stated negotiating positions.