Should the gop be willing to shut down nonessential govt functions to stop obamacare?

[ScienceRocks]

The nws, border protrol, and ssi isn't unessential.

All needed for being a first world country.

 

[mudwhistle]

They should change the name of the Affordable Health Care Act to "Fuck Over America While We Skate" Act.

 

[TemplarKormac]

.

I've got a dumb question here, but I'd love an answer.

So according to the poll, most respondents say shutting down much of the government to stop Obamacare would be worth any ramifications, I assume political. So let's walk through what I think you're saying:

1. Much of the government is shut down, the shit hits the fan
2. The Dems can point at the GOP and say, "they did it"
3. The GOP says "yeah, we did it, we don't care about the consequences"
4. The consequences are that an angry public votes a bunch of Republicans out
5. Now there are more Dems and they have more power
6. These new Dems team with the old Dems and come up with all kinds of new shit the GOP hates
7. The GOP is powerless to stop it, since they fell on the sword over Obamacare

Is that what we're saying here? That this act of defiance is worth handing even more power to the Dems?

.

Simple answer:

At least our government won't be screwing us over while its shut down.

 

[mudwhistle]

I wonder how Obama has been able to rationalize this statement yesterday:

In a speech at the Business Roundtable headquarters in Washington, D.C., Obama dismissed concerns about raising the debt ceiling by noting that it'd been done so many times in the past:

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you've already racked up, Congress. It's a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved."
- See more at: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 100 Times' | CNS News​

 

[Billo_Really]

Many laws were the "law of the land"

Doesn't mean shit

This is a country, based on the rule of law.

Saying laws don't mean shit, is un-American.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yes or no and what do you believe the ramifications would be? And I don't mean lost elections. Individual political seats are not more important than the health (not medical) of our nation as a whole.
The dems screamed the sky was falling when the thought of sequester wasmentioned. Reality showed different.

Im sick of the gop being forced to "go along" just to keep the gun away from their heads. This is a bipartisan mess overall and im sick of the dems getting a free pass. If the govt shuts down it will be because BOTH sides refused to compromise. BOTH

Congress is there to fulfill the will of the people not FUCKING KING OBAMA.

I say fuck these stupid games and play hardball. Sadly I don't think Boehner has the spine required to do what's right.

How is it the dems fault republicans choose to hold this country hostage?

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes or no and what do you believe the ramifications would be? And I don't mean lost elections. Individual political seats are not more important than the health (not medical) of our nation as a whole.
The dems screamed the sky was falling when the thought of sequester wasmentioned. Reality showed different.

Im sick of the gop being forced to "go along" just to keep the gun away from their heads. This is a bipartisan mess overall and im sick of the dems getting a free pass. If the govt shuts down it will be because BOTH sides refused to compromise. BOTH

Congress is there to fulfill the will of the people not FUCKING KING OBAMA.

I say fuck these stupid games and play hardball. Sadly I don't think Boehner has the spine required to do what's right.

How is it the dems fault republicans choose to hold this country hostage?

This country doesn't want Obamacare. What you mean is "Hold Our Oppressive Government Hostage".



Obama calls it extortion.

Great way to win over one's enemies, call them criminals.

 

[mudwhistle]

Obama's "We Won,........Deal with it" and his my way or the highway attitude is what caused this.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I wonder how Obama has been able to rationalize this statement yesterday:

In a speech at the Business Roundtable headquarters in Washington, D.C., Obama dismissed concerns about raising the debt ceiling by noting that it'd been done so many times in the past:

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you've already racked up, Congress. It's a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved."
- See more at: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 100 Times' | CNS News​

This is like saying "you won't get high off this crack, it'll just make you feel good."

 

[Greenbeard]

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Who's responsible for regulation and oversight of them? The federal government?

All states have an insurance commissioner.

And? Does that mean each insurer in this proposal is operating under the rules of the state it's selling in? Or is it operating under a single set of rules that apply to its products in all 50 states? If the latter, whose rules would those be?

 

[zeke]

You right wing whack jobs can blame whoever you want for shutting down our government. The rest of us who are not right wing whack jobs will know what really happened. And you all will be punished in the 2014 elections.

Then not only will you whacks have the satisfaction of blaming who ever you want for your defeat, the rest of us Americans will have the satisfaction of not having to put up with the Tea Parties bull shit.

It will be so great listening to you right wingers whine. That's about all you do anymore. Whine.

 

[Polk]

A better questions is, is Obama willing to shut the government down over Obamacare?

I think he is because he feels that the GOP will get blamed.

So the only shutdowns will be at the hands of Obama and the obstructionist Democrats, not the GOP. The GOP has made no decision to shut anything down because it is not within their power to do so. The House has continued to govern while Democrats have decided not to. The House has continued to vote for and submit budgets for the last several years and the Democrat controlled Senate has not. Obama has submitted ridiculous budget proposals that nobody will vote for, so we're stuck with a series of continuing resolutions rather than budgets to keep the government running. This has never been done before.

Basically, the Dems and the White House have decided that they will use the budget as a foil to attack and to undermine their opposition. They haven't governed, just acted politically.

The Dems decided to exempt themselves from Obamacare and they think they can impose it on the rest of us. This is the ultimate of hypocrisy.

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

 

[Polk]

I wonder how Obama has been able to rationalize this statement yesterday:

In a speech at the Business Roundtable headquarters in Washington, D.C., Obama dismissed concerns about raising the debt ceiling by noting that it'd been done so many times in the past:

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you've already racked up, Congress. It's a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved."
- See more at: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 100 Times' | CNS News​

Raising the debt ceiling doesn't increase our debt...

 

[TemplarKormac]

A better questions is, is Obama willing to shut the government down over Obamacare?

I think he is because he feels that the GOP will get blamed.

So the only shutdowns will be at the hands of Obama and the obstructionist Democrats, not the GOP. The GOP has made no decision to shut anything down because it is not within their power to do so. The House has continued to govern while Democrats have decided not to. The House has continued to vote for and submit budgets for the last several years and the Democrat controlled Senate has not. Obama has submitted ridiculous budget proposals that nobody will vote for, so we're stuck with a series of continuing resolutions rather than budgets to keep the government running. This has never been done before.

Basically, the Dems and the White House have decided that they will use the budget as a foil to attack and to undermine their opposition. They haven't governed, just acted politically.

The Dems decided to exempt themselves from Obamacare and they think they can impose it on the rest of us. This is the ultimate of hypocrisy.

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

You do realize Democrats are the ones in control of the Senate, right?

 

[Seawytch]

A better questions is, is Obama willing to shut the government down over Obamacare?

I think he is because he feels that the GOP will get blamed.

So the only shutdowns will be at the hands of Obama and the obstructionist Democrats, not the GOP. The GOP has made no decision to shut anything down because it is not within their power to do so. The House has continued to govern while Democrats have decided not to. The House has continued to vote for and submit budgets for the last several years and the Democrat controlled Senate has not. Obama has submitted ridiculous budget proposals that nobody will vote for, so we're stuck with a series of continuing resolutions rather than budgets to keep the government running. This has never been done before.

Basically, the Dems and the White House have decided that they will use the budget as a foil to attack and to undermine their opposition. They haven't governed, just acted politically.

The Dems decided to exempt themselves from Obamacare and they think they can impose it on the rest of us. This is the ultimate of hypocrisy.

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

Read more: The New New Deal: Why the GOP Became the Party of No | TIME.com

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMV44yoXZ0"]Whatever it is I'm against it![/ame]

 

[Polk]

A better questions is, is Obama willing to shut the government down over Obamacare?

I think he is because he feels that the GOP will get blamed.

So the only shutdowns will be at the hands of Obama and the obstructionist Democrats, not the GOP. The GOP has made no decision to shut anything down because it is not within their power to do so. The House has continued to govern while Democrats have decided not to. The House has continued to vote for and submit budgets for the last several years and the Democrat controlled Senate has not. Obama has submitted ridiculous budget proposals that nobody will vote for, so we're stuck with a series of continuing resolutions rather than budgets to keep the government running. This has never been done before.

Basically, the Dems and the White House have decided that they will use the budget as a foil to attack and to undermine their opposition. They haven't governed, just acted politically.

The Dems decided to exempt themselves from Obamacare and they think they can impose it on the rest of us. This is the ultimate of hypocrisy.

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

You do realize Democrats are the ones in control of the Senate, right?

And the White House and their position has the support of a majority in the House. So who are the obstructionists again?

 

[Redfish]

A better questions is, is Obama willing to shut the government down over Obamacare?

I think he is because he feels that the GOP will get blamed.

So the only shutdowns will be at the hands of Obama and the obstructionist Democrats, not the GOP. The GOP has made no decision to shut anything down because it is not within their power to do so. The House has continued to govern while Democrats have decided not to. The House has continued to vote for and submit budgets for the last several years and the Democrat controlled Senate has not. Obama has submitted ridiculous budget proposals that nobody will vote for, so we're stuck with a series of continuing resolutions rather than budgets to keep the government running. This has never been done before.

Basically, the Dems and the White House have decided that they will use the budget as a foil to attack and to undermine their opposition. They haven't governed, just acted politically.

The Dems decided to exempt themselves from Obamacare and they think they can impose it on the rest of us. This is the ultimate of hypocrisy.

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

Read more: The New New Deal: Why the GOP Became the Party of No | TIME.com
QUOTE]




when the president is a marxist collectivist, trying to keep him from passing marxist collectivist legislation is the right thing to do.

During the 2 years that the dems had both houses, we got the worst piece of legislation in the history of the nation rammed up our asses (obamacare).

Call it whatever you like, the GOP is doing the right thing for our country by blocking obama as much as they possibly can.

 

[Redfish]

The idea that the Democrats are the obstructionists in this situation are laughable. There are three institutional veto points and an additional artificial one created by the Republican leadership in the House. The artificial one is the only one a "clean" CR can't get past.

You do realize Democrats are the ones in control of the Senate, right?

And the White House and their position has the support of a majority in the House. So who are the obstructionists again?

actually both sides, and that is probably a good thing. Total congressional gridlock is the best thing for the country.

Everything they do is wrong, send them all home.

 

[Polk]

You do realize Democrats are the ones in control of the Senate, right?

And the White House and their position has the support of a majority in the House. So who are the obstructionists again?

actually both sides, and that is probably a good thing. Total congressional gridlock is the best thing for the country.

Everything they do is wrong, send them all home.

I'll give you credit, because labeling both sides as obstructionists has more logical import than the claims being made by others.

 

[Redfish]

And the White House and their position has the support of a majority in the House. So who are the obstructionists again?

actually both sides, and that is probably a good thing. Total congressional gridlock is the best thing for the country.

Everything they do is wrong, send them all home.

I'll give you credit, because labeling both sides as obstructionists has more logical import than the claims being made by others.

including you since earlier you made the false claim that only the republicans were obstructing. Are you recanting that lie?