Do Natural Rights Actually Exist?

[Procrustes Stretched]

@Procrustes

I guess it makes no sense to ask you why you are happy and laugh now.

I am happy and laugh often. I even laugh at most tragedy. Life can be a joke.

You're just not very bright.

 

[HikerGuy83]

okay
View attachment 995467

Into hero worship ?

Trump is really screwing this up.

 

[dblack]

Do Natural Rights Actually Exist? If they do not then it's all intellectual bs. If they do, what are they? Can and do people who believe natural rights actually exist, agree on them -- what they are and are not?

I often see things similar to this Wikipedia entry:
Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and so are universal, fundamental and inalienable (they cannot be repealed by human laws, though one can forfeit their enjoyment through one's actions, such as by violating someone else's rights).

Do natural rights trump laws? If so...

Natural rights, inalienable rights, etc - are merely a recognition of human capacity for volition. All of them originate from the right to think, and act, for yourself. Which is "endowed by the creator", or otherwise innate to the human mind. It's just a feature of human intelligence. Governments can choose to either honor these rights, or violate them. But they can't take them away. Short of killing or imprisoning someone, every human will have the capacity to think for themselves.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Into hero worship ?

Trump is really screwing this up.

You believe Trump is a hero?

 

[HikerGuy83]

You believe Trump is a hero?

View attachment 995469

No, but apparently you do.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Natural rights, inalienable rights, etc - are merely a recognition of human capacity for volition. All of them originate from the right to think, and act, for yourself. Which is "endowed by the creator", or otherwise innate to the human mind. It's just a feature of human intelligence. Governments can choose to either honor these rights, or violate them. But they can't take them away. Short of killing or imprisoning someone, every human will have the capacity to think for themselves.

Let's start here:
noun: volition
the faculty or power of using one's will. What exactly is a "will?"

"originate from the right to?" Here we are. Where does this "right" originate from? I am not against rights, but I do not mistake metaphors like "rights" for something it is not. This injection of a 'creator" endowing rights on beings? It's childish, magical thinking.

"Innate to the human mind?" The latest in brain science does not support this.

Arguing about governments and rights is great. We get as human beings to demand and insist we have rights, but rights are nothing but human constructs.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

No, but apparently you do.

I forgot how demented and delusional you are.

bye

 

[dblack]

Let's start here:
noun: volition
the faculty or power of using one's will. What exactly is a "will?"

"originate from the right to?" Here we are. Where does this "right" originate from? I am not against rights, but I do not mistake metaphors like "rights" for something it is not. This injection of a 'creator" endowing rights on beings? It's childish, magical thinking.

"Innate to the human mind?" The latest in brain science does not support this.

Arguing about governments and rights is great. We get as human beings to demand and insist we have rights, but rights are nothing but human constructs.

mkay.

Liberals get all hung up on this shit. I can never quite figure out why. Why is it so important for you that rights be "human constructs"? Why does it matter?

 

[HikerGuy83]

mkay.

Liberals get all hung up on this shit. I can never quite figure out why. Why is it so important for you that rights be "human constructs"? Why does it matter?

He just needs to feel smart.

 

[dblack]

The concept of inalienable rights is merely a recognition of the base human state. Without anyone else around to interfere, humans are free to think and act for themselves. When there's more than one person, it complicates things and rights can come into conflict. That's where government comes in.

 

[dblack]

He just needs to feel smart.

The best way to do that is to say something smart.

 

[zaangalewa]

when the guy down the street looses his freedoms, so do the rest of us Zaang

one might say it's a collectivist concept , others might claim it democracy

~S~

Yes and no. Natural rights are god given rights. We don't know them all - and sometimes we still have no words for - but we feel them in our well educated hearts. Every creature has rights!

Very short my Christian statement in this context: The Israelites left the slavery of Egypt where "death" was in the centre of every single life. Egypt was a great and wonderful culture - but to live as a kind of living dead centered always only in death is not really nice. Now "we" - the followers of the Israelites - are in a country where unborn human beings will be killed and call this country somehow "the country where milk and honey flows". We are mighty, rich and powerful. No one suffers hunger. But "milk and honey" is not abortion. Milk and honey is baby food. We are happy with babies - we are not happy with aborted babies. All of us. All mankind since we live and as long as we will live. Look at the people who see a baby of whatever species in a zoo. We are not here to kill this planet - we are here to protect this planet. With all lifeforms - and not only centered in egocentrism. We are a noble species - and not an intergalactic joke of weirdos who murder even their own breed. We are the children of god.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

mkay.

Liberals get all hung up on this shit. I can never quite figure out why. Why is it so important for you that rights be "human constructs"? Why does it matter?

Liberals? Like all those liberal churches and synagogues?


It's not all that important. We all (most people) demand and fight for rights. Like my forebears and the MAGNA CARTA thing. It matters because WE the people made it happen. The King, the Sovereign was said to have that silly god on his side.

Magna Carta was issued in June 1215 and was the first document to put into writing the principle that the king and his government was not above the law. It sought to prevent the king from exploiting his power, and placed limits of royal authority by establishing law as a power in itself.

https://www.parliament.uk/magnacarta/

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

He just needs to feel smart.

Feel smart? You rally are dumb, aren't you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The concept of inalienable rights is merely a recognition of the base human state. Without anyone else around to interfere, humans are free to think and act for themselves. When there's more than one person, it complicates things and rights can come into conflict. That's where government comes in.

Without anyone else around... most humans are breakfast, lunch, dinner or fertilizer. The so-called natural state -- another human construct.

You don't get it. My family fought and earned us all rights. Again, the MAGNA CARTA thing. That started it all for the English/British colonists in North America (my family).

 

[HikerGuy83]

The best way to do that is to say something smart.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The best way to do that is to say something smart.

You and HikerGuy83 would actually look smart if you would stfu on things you know little to nothing about.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes and no. Natural rights are god given rights.

And if one day we humans prove this god does not exist?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Don't hold your breath.

Please do yourself

 

[HikerGuy83]

You and HikerGuy83 would actually look smart if you would stfu on things you know little to nothing about.

Oh the irony.

You couldn't look smart even if you knew what you were talking about. Which you rarely do.