Should the gop be willing to shut down nonessential govt functions to stop obamacare?

[Polk]

Laws are not written in stone. Who told you they were?

True. And the "it's the law of the land" argument is kinda stupid for that reason, but it does contain a morsel of truth. Namely, that when you've had two consecutive presidential elections fought on the same topic and the same side of the question won both times, it's properly worth considering that it's the popular will.

You did not answer the question.

The question wasn't addressed to me and I rejected the core argument being made by the person you were replying to.

 

[Polk]

?

IDIOT. He made mention of it.

You realize there is a difference between raising money and spending money, right?

That is correct. Funding is the spending. Revenue is the confiscation of monies.

The HOUSE is the only agency that can legislate spending. Period.

Since the discussion is about Spending, that is where I will continue to focus.

The HOUSE is controlled by the GOP. This means that the Senate must play ball with the HOUSE to spend any money... This means that when the HOUSE sends a bill to the Senate that funds (spends money) the Government, the Senate will then have to work with them to get this spending (funds) passed so that government can function.

Since the Senate (Democrats) have not worked with the HOUSE (GOP) and in fact, have stated that any funding (spending) is dead on arrival, that means that the Senate has closed down the government.

It does NOT get any more clear than that.

So now you're going back to your initial argument, which was wrong. There is no Constitutional requirement that spending originate in the House.

 

[Polk]

Increased local cost of services can increase premiums, but it doesn't change the fact that insurers would flock to the less restrictive jurisdictions.

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Insurance is all about spreading the risk and sharing the cost. I would suggest an insurance 101 class for you.

Requiring them to compete in every state won't matter, because their contracts will only be bound by the regulations of the state they're writing the contracts out of.

 

[bendog]

That is correct. Funding is the spending. Revenue is the confiscation of monies.

The HOUSE is the only agency that can legislate spending. Period.

Since the discussion is about Spending, that is where I will continue to focus.

The HOUSE is controlled by the GOP. This means that the Senate must play ball with the HOUSE to spend any money... This means that when the HOUSE sends a bill to the Senate that funds (spends money) the Government, the Senate will then have to work with them to get this spending (funds) passed so that government can function.

Since the Senate (Democrats) have not worked with the HOUSE (GOP) and in fact, have stated that any funding (spending) is dead on arrival, that means that the Senate has closed down the government.

It does NOT get any more clear than that.

Clear as mud. But, don't expect rational people to agree with you.

Rational people DO agree with Me. Liberals and progressives however..........

If you really think the gop will be able blame the dems for shutting down the gummit because the dems refuse to agree to defund obamacare, you're frigging nuts. And irrational. Faux viewers may agree.

And I'm neither a dem nor a fan of obamacare. I do object to goebbels like propaganda, however.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Increased local cost of services can increase premiums, but it doesn't change the fact that insurers would flock to the less restrictive jurisdictions.

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Insurance is all about spreading the risk and sharing the cost. I would suggest an insurance 101 class for you.

Requiring them to compete in every state won't matter, because their contracts will only be bound by the regulations of the state they're writing the contracts out of.

This is the same type of irrational argument that cripples our government.

 

[Mertex]

The GOP needs to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting like a bunch of 3 years throwing a pissy fit because they didn't get their way (even though the individual mandate was a republican plan to begin with)

The affordable care act is the law of the land, deal with it.

Many laws were the "law of the land"

Doesn't mean shit

They have to get it through House and Senate and the President. They've tried 42 times. Time to figure it out, don't you think? It's not going to happen. All that is going to happen is the GOP shutting down the government and getting everyone mad, including Republicans who will be victims of the ramifications - and you will lose badly in 2014.

The GOP has been warned, but alas, they have a hard time learning anything.

 

[Redfish]

Increased local cost of services can increase premiums, but it doesn't change the fact that insurers would flock to the less restrictive jurisdictions.

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Insurance is all about spreading the risk and sharing the cost. I would suggest an insurance 101 class for you.

Requiring them to compete in every state won't matter, because their contracts will only be bound by the regulations of the state they're writing the contracts out of.

they would have to be licensed in every state. but their risk distribution would be national, and therefore premiums would be lower.

Rather than just having blue cross and humana, you could have 10 companies competing for your business.

competition brings prices down----every place, every time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If we Republicans are stupid enough to do this, the GOP gets smashed in the elections next year and possibly could lose the House.

 

[Redfish]

The GOP needs to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting like a bunch of 3 years throwing a pissy fit because they didn't get their way (even though the individual mandate was a republican plan to begin with)

The affordable care act is the law of the land, deal with it.

Many laws were the "law of the land"

Doesn't mean shit

They have to get it through House and Senate and the President. They've tried 42 times. Time to figure it out, don't you think? It's not going to happen. All that is going to happen is the GOP shutting down the government and getting everyone mad, including Republicans who will be victims of the ramifications - and you will lose badly in 2014.

The GOP has been warned, but alas, they have a hard time learning anything.

a majority of americans do not want obamacare, the unions don't want it, small business does not want it, big business does not want it, CONGRESS does not want it for themselves, OBAMA does not want it for him and his family.

Sorry, but its you dem/libs who have a hard time learning anything.

But, here's your chance. Do you approve of congress exempting themselves from obamacare? yes or no.

 

[Polk]

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Insurance is all about spreading the risk and sharing the cost. I would suggest an insurance 101 class for you.

Requiring them to compete in every state won't matter, because their contracts will only be bound by the regulations of the state they're writing the contracts out of.

This is the same type of irrational argument that cripples our government.

It's only irrational if you don't understand how contracts work.

 

[Polk]

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Insurance is all about spreading the risk and sharing the cost. I would suggest an insurance 101 class for you.

Requiring them to compete in every state won't matter, because their contracts will only be bound by the regulations of the state they're writing the contracts out of.

they would have to be licensed in every state. but their risk distribution would be national, and therefore premiums would be lower.

Rather than just having blue cross and humana, you could have 10 companies competing for your business.

competition brings prices down----every place, every time.

They have to be licensed in the state, but that doesn't mean they have to follow state regulations where they differ from the chosen headquarters. So it turns out like credit cards, where you just go to whichever state has the lowest amount of regulation.

 

[candycorn]

As long as the GOP keeps digging their own graves; the Dems should keep handing them shovels.

 

[Mustang]

I can understand it when people reach an incorrect conclusion based on incomplete information or a lack of historical perspective so that they therefore don't truly understand the likely consequences of their actions.

This isn't like that. This is the antithesis of that. There's enough information and historical perspective to predict the likely outcome in terms of public opinion if the GOP chooses this path. But it seems as if they intend to do it anyway, actually believing it will work in their favor.

No offense, but this is just plain stupidity. Now, let's forget the PR consequences for just one moment to ask ourselves a different question.

Would any of us want people who are apparently this stupid and this clueless running our country?

 

[bendog]

I can understand it when people reach an incorrect conclusion based on incomplete information or a lack of historical perspective so that they therefore don't truly understand the likely consequences of their actions.

This isn't like that. This is the antithesis of that. There's enough information and historical perspective to predict the likely outcome in terms of public opinion if the GOP chooses this path. But it seems as if they're intend to do it anyway, actually believing it will work in their favor.

No offense, but this is just plain stupidity. Now, let's forget the PR consequences for just one moment to ask ourselves a different question.

Would any of us want people who are apparently this stupid and this clueless running our country?

True, and what's dispiriting is that they could instead pass bill that repeals obamacare and replaces it with something provides all people with the means to access preventive care at no out of pocket cost to themselves, and allows those people w/o employer insurance to buy into a very low cost HC plan that would cover serious, non-chronic, injury and illness. And NOT expand medicaid.

But the bottom line is the TPM do not believe the fed govt has much, if any, biz in making HC affordable by using public taxes to do it. And, that is a politically untenable position for a party if it has any interest in winning national elections.

 

[TooTall]

You realize there is a difference between raising money and spending money, right?

That is correct. Funding is the spending. Revenue is the confiscation of monies.

The HOUSE is the only agency that can legislate spending. Period.

Since the discussion is about Spending, that is where I will continue to focus.

The HOUSE is controlled by the GOP. This means that the Senate must play ball with the HOUSE to spend any money... This means that when the HOUSE sends a bill to the Senate that funds (spends money) the Government, the Senate will then have to work with them to get this spending (funds) passed so that government can function.

Since the Senate (Democrats) have not worked with the HOUSE (GOP) and in fact, have stated that any funding (spending) is dead on arrival, that means that the Senate has closed down the government.

It does NOT get any more clear than that.

So now you're going back to your initial argument, which was wrong. There is no Constitutional requirement that spending originate in the House.

Wrong!

The House of Representatives must begin the process when it comes to raising and spending money. It is the chamber where all taxing and spending bills start. The Senate can offer changes and must ultimately approve the bills before they go to the president, but only the House may introduce a bill that involves taxes.

 

[Redfish]

I can understand it when people reach an incorrect conclusion based on incomplete information or a lack of historical perspective so that they therefore don't truly understand the likely consequences of their actions.

This isn't like that. This is the antithesis of that. There's enough information and historical perspective to predict the likely outcome in terms of public opinion if the GOP chooses this path. But it seems as if they intend to do it anyway, actually believing it will work in their favor.

No offense, but this is just plain stupidity. Now, let's forget the PR consequences for just one moment to ask ourselves a different question.

Would any of us want people who are apparently this stupid and this clueless running our country?

we agree that we have a lot of stupid clueless people running our country, starting with obozo the kenyan clown prince.

refusing to fund obamacare is what a majority of americans want, including unions, small businesses, and large businesses.

If the GOP sends a budget bill that funds every function of govt but obamacare, and obama and dems block it, then obama will be responsible for shutting down the govt and the results will be on him, reid, and the rest of the dem/libs.

 

[Redfish]

I can understand it when people reach an incorrect conclusion based on incomplete information or a lack of historical perspective so that they therefore don't truly understand the likely consequences of their actions.

This isn't like that. This is the antithesis of that. There's enough information and historical perspective to predict the likely outcome in terms of public opinion if the GOP chooses this path. But it seems as if they're intend to do it anyway, actually believing it will work in their favor.

No offense, but this is just plain stupidity. Now, let's forget the PR consequences for just one moment to ask ourselves a different question.

Would any of us want people who are apparently this stupid and this clueless running our country?

True, and what's dispiriting is that they could instead pass bill that repeals obamacare and replaces it with something provides all people with the means to access preventive care at no out of pocket cost to themselves, and allows those people w/o employer insurance to buy into a very low cost HC plan that would cover serious, non-chronic, injury and illness. And NOT expand medicaid.

But the bottom line is the TPM do not believe the fed govt has much, if any, biz in making HC affordable by using public taxes to do it. And, that is a politically untenable position for a party if it has any interest in winning national elections.

you are wrong, dog. No one in the USA was denied healthcare before obamacare, NO ONE! Even illegals got it free.

There were a few million (3 or 4) who did not have insurance but wanted it. The govt could have provided those people with free insurance for much less than the obozocare fiasco is going to cost us.

but since not one of the other libs will answer this maybe you will: Do you approve of congress and the administration exempting themselves from obamacare? yes or no.

 

[Mertex]

Many laws were the "law of the land"

Doesn't mean shit

They have to get it through House and Senate and the President. They've tried 42 times. Time to figure it out, don't you think? It's not going to happen. All that is going to happen is the GOP shutting down the government and getting everyone mad, including Republicans who will be victims of the ramifications - and you will lose badly in 2014.

The GOP has been warned, but alas, they have a hard time learning anything.

a majority of americans do not want obamacare, the unions don't want it, small business does not want it, big business does not want it,

A majority of Americans want the GOP to quit trying to repeal it. The majority that favor repeal are conservatives who believe the misinformation that they have created about Obamacare.

A clear majority of Americans are opposed to the Republican-led effort to defund Obamacare, a new poll shows.
Fifty-seven percent of Americans say they disapprove of the proposal to cut off funding as a way to stop the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, according to a new survey from the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation.
There are clear partisan divides -- six in 10 Republicans say they approve of the idea, while just 15 percent of Democrats and 39 percent of independents support it.
The current effort to defund Obamacare has driven a wedge in the GOP and ultimately would have little impact on the implementation of the health law, but a passionate contingent of Republicans has nevertheless kept the idea alive.
Majority oppose GOP plan to defund Obamacare, poll finds - CBS News

CONGRESS does not want it for themselves, OBAMA does not want it for him and his family.

Members of Congress would have preferred to stay under the FEHBP, but now, they will be receiving subsidies, just like they did before. They do not want you to have what they have, they would rather you continue to struggle with unreliable insurance companies that drop whomever they please, raise premiums whenever they want and make excuses why they can't cover your illness. You should be mad at Congress for not wanting you to have what they have. If they were to succeed in repealing Obamacare, they would go back to FEHBP, while the rest of the country can go back to what I mentioned above.


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congress has won some partial relief for lawmakers and their staffs from the "Obamacare" health reforms that it passed and subjected itself to three years ago.
In a ruling issued on Wednesday, U.S. lawmakers and their staffs will continue to receive a federal contribution toward the health insurance that they must purchase through soon-to-open exchanges created by President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law.
Congress wins relief on Obamacare health plan subsidies

Sorry, but its you dem/libs who have a hard time learning anything.

We have learned that the Republicans in Congress are willing to sacrifice it's own party and the country to satisfy the erroneous policies of a few newcomers.

But, here's your chance. Do you approve of congress exempting themselves from obamacare? yes or no.

They have basically the same coverage now under FEHBP, except for the subsidies, which they have now been guaranteed. Why would they want to opt out?

And why is that my chance? If they are wealthy, they can probably pay a private doctor whatever it charges to take care of them and their family, and they probably have enough money to take care of any hospital expense that would probably put the rest of us at risk.

I really don't care if they are exempt or not. It's about the rest of the country.

 

[bendog]

I just don't understand the entire 'shut down government' meme being perpetrated by both sides.

The House simply needs to craft a budget that funds the government but leaves off any monetary stipends for Obamacare.

Then send it to the Senate for ratification.

If it fails, then it is the Senate (aka, Democrats) who have failed (yet again) to fund the government.

That's a matter of semantics. The Senate has already passed a funding bill, so you could just as easily (and honestly) argue that the House is the one who has failed to act. It's a massive circle.

The Senate CANNOT pass a funding bill. Or did you sleep through that part of the Constitution?

The real truth here is that the Democrats have repeatedly failed to work with the GOP over the past 4 years. A lot of the problems we face with regard to budgetary issues could very well have been solved if the Democrats followed the law.

When you play tennis, you don't get to let the returned ball sail past you and then claim that your opponent did not hit the ball in the manner you like and then claim the point.

You play the return and go whine to your wife or cry in your beer or whatever, later.

CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Article I

Read the legislative process. I know, Cornell Law School is "liberal."

 

[Redfish]

They have to get it through House and Senate and the President. They've tried 42 times. Time to figure it out, don't you think? It's not going to happen. All that is going to happen is the GOP shutting down the government and getting everyone mad, including Republicans who will be victims of the ramifications - and you will lose badly in 2014.

The GOP has been warned, but alas, they have a hard time learning anything.

a majority of americans do not want obamacare, the unions don't want it, small business does not want it, big business does not want it,

A majority of Americans want the GOP to quit trying to repeal it. The majority that favor repeal are conservatives who believe the misinformation that they have created about Obamacare.

A clear majority of Americans are opposed to the Republican-led effort to defund Obamacare, a new poll shows.
Fifty-seven percent of Americans say they disapprove of the proposal to cut off funding as a way to stop the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, according to a new survey from the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation.
There are clear partisan divides -- six in 10 Republicans say they approve of the idea, while just 15 percent of Democrats and 39 percent of independents support it.
The current effort to defund Obamacare has driven a wedge in the GOP and ultimately would have little impact on the implementation of the health law, but a passionate contingent of Republicans has nevertheless kept the idea alive.
Majority oppose GOP plan to defund Obamacare, poll finds - CBS News


Members of Congress would have preferred to stay under the FEHBP, but now, they will be receiving subsidies, just like they did before. They do not want you to have what they have, they would rather you continue to struggle with unreliable insurance companies that drop whomever they please, raise premiums whenever they want and make excuses why they can't cover your illness. You should be mad at Congress for not wanting you to have what they have. If they were to succeed in repealing Obamacare, they would go back to FEHBP, while the rest of the country can go back to what I mentioned above.


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congress has won some partial relief for lawmakers and their staffs from the "Obamacare" health reforms that it passed and subjected itself to three years ago.
In a ruling issued on Wednesday, U.S. lawmakers and their staffs will continue to receive a federal contribution toward the health insurance that they must purchase through soon-to-open exchanges created by President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law.
Congress wins relief on Obamacare health plan subsidies

Sorry, but its you dem/libs who have a hard time learning anything.

We have learned that the Republicans in Congress are willing to sacrifice it's own party and the country to satisfy the erroneous policies of a few newcomers.

But, here's your chance. Do you approve of congress exempting themselves from obamacare? yes or no.

They have basically the same coverage now under FEHBP, except for the subsidies, which they have now been guaranteed. Why would they want to opt out?

And why is that my chance? If they are wealthy, they can probably pay a private doctor whatever it charges to take care of them and their family, and they probably have enough money to take care of any hospital expense that would probably put the rest of us at risk.

I really don't care if they are exempt or not. It's about the rest of the country.

WE, the taxpayers are subsidizing a blue ribbon health plan for congress, while congress is forcing the rest of into plans that are worse than what we had, cost more, and provide less coverage.

but I guess you are OK with congress as the monrachy class of the USA.

this is exactly the kind of thing that the founders ran from in europe. and now you silly fuckers want to create a ruling class in the USA while the rest of us are serfs and peons. are you really that stupid?