Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[Ray From Cleveland]

Medicare Part B is ok. Medicare Part A (hospitalizations) trust funds will go bust in 2026. This is due to the amount of loans CMS & Medicaid Services gave to providers in advance and accelerated payments last year due to Corvid. Someone had to pay for all those weeks and months spent in the hospital with Corvid. I can't even imagine what 45 days in the hospital, most of it in ICU must cost

The reason Part B is okay is because it's conducted by private companies. They will be putting me on Medicare the first of May this year. I have to figure out the private companies I wish to use for prescription and co-pays. I'm sure it will be a nightmare.

 

[Flopper]

The reason Part B is okay is because it's conducted by private companies. They will be putting me on Medicare the first of May this year. I have to figure out the private companies I wish to use for prescription and co-pays. I'm sure it will be a nightmare.

Sorry Ray, you can't claim it's ok because government doesn't manage it. Both Part A and Part B are managed by CMS, Center for Medicare Services which is a government agency. Med Advantage Plans are a front end for Medicare. They cover what Medicare covers unitize the same rules and bundle claims and send them to CMS for reimbursement by Medicare. For those that do not have MediAdvantage Plans, both part A and B claims go directly to CMS.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sorry Ray, you can't claim it's ok because government doesn't manage it. Both Part A and Part B are managed by CMS, Center for Medicare Services which is a government agency. Med Advantage Plans are a front end for Medicare. They cover what Medicare covers unitize the same rules and bundle claims and send them to CMS for reimbursement by Medicare. For those that do not have MediAdvantage Plans, both part A and B claims go directly to CMS.

I'm no expert on Medicare and only relaying what they sent me. I'll have to look into it further when I get closer to the date. I want to make sure I'm covered for anything under the sun. I hate writing checks for things especially medical. I have to write enough checks as it is for my business given I'm an older guy that likes a paper trail in the event of an IRS audit which has never happened to me before.

My 90 year old father talks about part J. I never heard of it before and I explained to him what they sent me didn't even mention a Part J. He says he has Part J and never seen a bill in spite of getting over a million dollars of medical care since he started Medicare. The receptionist at my dentist says to use United Healthcare for my supplemental. She said it covers everything she's ever billed for 100%. I have really bad teeth.

 

[Blues Man]

Yes, semantics, but those semantics have very import meaning.
Cash into fund is limited to payroll taxes, interest on treasury bills, and redemption of T bills.
Cash out of the fund is limited to payment to beneficiary's and purchases of T bills.
The exceptions in the law allow for deduction for operating expenses, currently zero.
30 day cash loans to the other treasury managed funds, primary Medicare. This option has not been used since 1983.

Specials Issue Treasury bills were a hot topic some years ago when the Fund was investing hundreds million of excess funds. Today, essentially all payroll taxes received by the fund and monthly redemptions of treasury bills are used to pay beneficiaries. Those redemptions will continue to increase until the fund is depleted, estimate to be about 12 years. Then 75% of beneficiary checks will be by payroll taxes and most probably the government will pay the 25%. This will be the easiest thing for congress to do which is why I think it will be done in this way. The disability fund should be good till 2057.

Not really.

The special issue T bills name is just more semantics. They are worthless outside of a government agency.

The fact is that everyone would be better off if that 12.4% of their lifetime income that is taken ans squandered by the government could be invested in a private account

 

[Blues Man]

Sorry Ray, you can't claim it's ok because government doesn't manage it. Both Part A and Part B are managed by CMS, Center for Medicare Services which is a government agency. Med Advantage Plans are a front end for Medicare. They cover what Medicare covers unitize the same rules and bundle claims and send them to CMS for reimbursement by Medicare. For those that do not have MediAdvantage Plans, both part A and B claims go directly to CMS.

So the government doesn't manage it but a government agency does.

It's the same thing.

 

[WorldWatcher]

My 90 year old father talks about part J. I never heard of it before and I explained to him what they sent me didn't even mention a Part J. He says he has Part J and never seen a bill in spite of getting over a million dollars of medical care since he started Medicare. The receptionist at my dentist says to use United Healthcare for my supplemental. She said it covers everything she's ever billed for 100%. I have really bad teeth.

Medicare Part J is a private insurance medigap plan that provided certain benefits to cover costs Medicare doesn't cover, the specifics of that plan are no longer open for new enrollees, but those that had enrolled before are allowed to maintain it.

Medicare Supplement Plan J | Healthline.com

Medicare Supplement Plan J (Medigap Plan J) was discontinued in 2010. Anyone who already had the plan can keep it and receive its benefits. Learn more about Medigap Plan J coverage, costs, and what to do if you're enrolled.

www.healthline.com

WW

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Medicare Part J is a private insurance medigap plan that provided certain benefits to cover costs Medicare doesn't cover, the specifics of that plan are no longer open for new enrollees, but those that had enrolled before are allowed to maintain it.

Medicare Supplement Plan J | Healthline.com

Medicare Supplement Plan J (Medigap Plan J) was discontinued in 2010. Anyone who already had the plan can keep it and receive its benefits. Learn more about Medigap Plan J coverage, costs, and what to do if you're enrolled.

www.healthline.com

WW

I kinda figured it was something along those lines. All the supplementals are private plans though. It's just a matter of which plan and from who you choose.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Just want to say thank you to all the participants in the thread.

Not trying to toot my/our own horn here, just a recounting of how blessed my wife and I have been over the years of our working careers along with raising two great children that are now grown and doing just fine. One is a JAG Lawyer and the other is an IT Sys Admin. Preparing for retirement isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon.

I left my parents’ home over 40 years ago after enlisting in the Navy at 17 and leaving for Boot Camp the following summer at 18 with nothing but the cloths on my back and a small duffle bag. My family wasn’t poor, but there wasn’t a lot of extra money to send me to college and I came along late in their lives so they were eyeing retirement themselves. My wife’s story is pretty similar. In my case even if I’d gone to college I’d have probably dropped out, I had a lot of growing up to do. We met, fell in love, and married when we were both at about the 10 year point in our Navy careers. We didn’t really start looking at retirement planning until our early 30’s and thank God we did, but to tell the truth my wife is smarter at this stuff then I am. (Don’t tell her I said that.) I entered the Navy with a High School diploma and retired after 20 years with a Master’s Degree (my wife was similar but stopped at a Bachelors). Met with a couple of different financial advisors over the years through our employer 401k/403b plans (2nd Career).

The basic structure of the plan I think of in terms of the old Nuclear Triade concept (ICBM, SLBM, and Air Delivered). Enlisted military retirement isn’t something I’d want to live on alone, but it has provided great flexibility over the years. So we EACH have our own triade resulting in 6 primary revenue sources:

• My Employer Pension
• Her Employer Pension
• My Military Retirement
• Her Military Retirement
• My Social Security
• Her Social Security

When we met with the financial counselors figuring some costs will go up, but others will go down – but to establish a plan. For example increased medical costs, but in retirement we wouldn’t need to maintain two cars, professional wardrobes, and the kids would be on their own, etc.).

• Our goal was to maintain at least 90% of our Disposable Income*** in retirement which would allow us to maintain at least our current standard of living and still do some travel.
• In addition, if something happened to either one of us, sure income would go down, but the other would be financially secure and able to maintain a comfortable standard of living as a single person. I have a Survivor Benefit Plan on my Navy retirement and she will receive – basically – my social security amount if something happens to me. Looking at my spreadsheets and the way things are mapped out, either one of is fine on our own.

***Disposable Income was an important point for us and may not be a true financial planning term so here is what we looked at.

• Current Disposable Income is a function of Total Income – Adjustments (i.e. 401k/403b contributions, IRA contributions, etc.). How much money is available to live on after taxes and savings are accounted for.
• Retirement Disposable Income will primarily be based on the revenue streams we planned for with some adjustments. There will be savings in some areas, increased costs in others. We’d stop making contributions to retirement accounts which for the last few years has had a big impact on current Disposable Income as we play catchup.

Every year around tax time we kind of review the plan at a high level and make adjustments to retirement savings coming out of our checks. Every year we get a pay raise, part of the raise goes directly to retirement. We’ll we screwed up on the 90% figure, looks like we really blew through that and Disposable Income will actually INCREASE with retirement in a few years at 65 and will provide an income in the low-mid 100K range and if something happens to me she will still be in the 90K range.

Supplemental income. Notice the above doesn’t include tax sheltered retirement savings accounts (401k/403b, Traditional IRA, Roth IRA, Annuity Plans, etc.). So our “insurance policies” against any one of the triade being impacted are tax sheltered savings. The 401k/403b savings balance for people in their early 60’s is: average = 230K and median = 85K. We’re well above average and we can actually use our Primary Revenue Streams and live comfortably without having to touch our tax sheltered savings until we reach the Requirement Minimum Distribution (RMD) age of 70. And even then, if we are in good health, the RMD will come out and go into some other conservatives investment vehicle. Of course if something happens to either one of us, the other then has the combined power of both accounts.

That’s the plan and is set. However, we think it would be beneficial to meet with a financial counselor who understands tax sheltered distributions and social security because recently we’ve bounced around the idea of delaying SS benefits and using distributions from the tax sheltered savings. So take SS and keep tax sheltered savings in reserve OR use the tax sheltered savings and delay SS until later is the question. Taking SS means you are getting checks earlier but are smaller than if you delay. There are some calculations you can do which show a breakeven point between (in years). Taking it early or delaying, which gives you a better benefits in the short term v. long term comparison. It’s really a function of how many years you expect to draw benefits. Both sets of our parents are still with us and are now in their late 80’s/early 90’s. Initial research is that the breakeven point is around the 15 year mark. If you take early payments, you will draw more money if you collect SS benefits for less than 15 years. On the other hand if you delay benefits, after 15 years you will draw more money by waiting. BUT, you will be even older so you have to hope to reach that far.

We’ve impressed on the kids (both now in their early 30’s) about paying themselves now slowly over the years to plan for retirement and they are both onboard and already have made significant progress in their own plans for their age group.

MEDICAL:
Financial ruin caused by medical issues was something we’ve read scare stories about and has been a major concern of ours. We have done periodic evaluations of TRICARE for retirees v. our Employer plans and due to employers picking up the main cost of the annual premiums at about 80% means we’ve used an employer plan as primary with TRICARE as a secondary insurance. It was actually cheaper to have employer sponsored insurance than is was to pay for our own TRICARE gap insurance. But once we retire the equation changes.

Medicare and “TRICARE For Life” (military retirees 65+) actually appears to be viable as they coordinate benefits. Medicare will be the primary for most things and TRICARE will pay as a secondary insurance. We need to do some reach to see if there are gap plans that will fill the gap on things that Medicare/TRICARE don’t cover and for prescriptions. Prescription coverage being Medicare Part D. But that is a work in progress.

Again thank you all.

WW

 

[kaz]

I've been drawing for 8 years and not about to give it up. It's no lie and it's no lie you're one of the dumbest fucks I've come across in a while.

With your severely limited reasoning skills, I'm impressed you could even come up with a claim like that. Nice job, Little Deb

 

[kaz]

The Social Security Trust Funds have money; that is credit balances when the Treasury pays interest on treasury bills, when payroll taxes are deposited, and when Treasury bills are redeemed. The money goes out of the fund when monthly checks to beneficiaries are written and when any treasury bills are purchased. So yes the fund does have a cash balances at times but it's transitory. Most assets of the fund are treasury bills.

Your knowledge of finance is so low I can't even explain it to you. Dude, this is just gibberish. I mean starting with that you have no idea what the general fund even is. I mean dude, that's basic 101 and you don't even know that

 

[Flopper]

I'm no expert on Medicare and only relaying what they sent me. I'll have to look into it further when I get closer to the date. I want to make sure I'm covered for anything under the sun. I hate writing checks for things especially medical. I have to write enough checks as it is for my business given I'm an older guy that likes a paper trail in the event of an IRS audit which has never happened to me before.

My 90 year old father talks about part J. I never heard of it before and I explained to him what they sent me didn't even mention a Part J. He says he has Part J and never seen a bill in spite of getting over a million dollars of medical care since he started Medicare. The receptionist at my dentist says to use United Healthcare for my supplemental. She said it covers everything she's ever billed for 100%. I have really bad teeth.

Part J is a Medicare Supplement for those who have just the original Medicare. Someone who has a Medicare Supplement plan F or above with the Original Medicare pays no deductibles and no copay ever. No referrals are needed and there are no networks. You can go to any health provider in the US that accepts Medicare. If you feel sick for any reason, you go to an ER or any doctor and there is no cost. In most cases there no bill ever sent. The Supplement pays what Medicare doesn't pay. And if have a plan F or above, it pays 80% of medical cost outside the US. It is fantastic coverage I wish everyone had. If you're sick you go doctor or hospital. You never have to worry about being able to afford care. And since there are no networks, you never have to worry about your providers being dropped from network.

That's the good, now the bad. In addition to paying the Part B coverage coverage you pay for the supplement that costs about $150 to $250 a month and that does not include drugs so you would probably want a Part D drug Plan. Also there's a few medical costs that Medicare does not cover that some Medicare Advantage plans provide some coverage, such eye exams, glasses, hearing test, and hearing aids. Also supplements can be hard to get after 6 mos. after you start start Medicare.

I had a Medadvattage plan for about 8 years when I was younger and did not have many medical costs. As I grew older and saw a half dozens doctors with numerous tests and other medical services, staying in network, got to be a problem as the insurance company dropped and added providers. I made one mistake going to a provider that I thought was in network but wasn't and that cost me $2000. Then the coup de gras came when the insurance company dropped my hospital and it's large clinic where all my healthcare providers were. So I was faced with changing all of my medical providers are getting new insurance. That is when I dropped my Medadvattage plan and went with original Medicare with a supplement. It has proved to be the best move I every made in health insurance. And I recommend it if cost is not a consideration.

I think MedAdvanage plans are really good if you don't mind dealing with network restrictions and changes in coverage yearly. When you are older with a lot of health problems, changes can be a problem and mistakes in network coverage and referrals can costly.

 

[beagle9]

The chance of making meaningful reductions in welfare cost is gone. The number of people on some form of welfare is about 59 million people. The number that have been on some form of welfare in their live is over 65 million. The federal goverment spends 85% of welfare dollars on 3 programs, Medicaid, SSI, SNAP. of these the most used is SNAP (food stamps). The rest of programs about a dozen, serve selected groups such as childcare for working mothers, job training, housing, free and reduce school lunches etc. To make meaningful cuts you have to cut programs that benefit large numbers of voters in both parties and that is just about impossible.

Creating dependency for votes is as wrong as it gets. We've been duped, and the evidence is all around us to take note of.

 

[beagle9]

So the government doesn't manage it but a government agency does.

It's the same thing.

I caught that too... LOL

 

[Jessica-stormlover]

At this point it doesn't matter. We're so far in debt and are so fucked that we're circling the drain. Better to restart with a clean deck.

 

[beagle9]

At this point it doesn't matter. We're so far in debt and are so fucked that we're circling the drain. Better to restart with a clean deck.

Forgiving our own debt is an option right ? It happens all the time for individual's, so why not government's ?? Yes a clean relaunch might be the best solution as corporation's do such reorganizations all the time... It's either sink or swim eh ? We should choose to swim.

 

[Flopper]

Forgiving our own debt is an option right ? It happens all the time for individual's, so why not government's ?? Yes a clean relaunch might be the best solution as corporation's do such reorganizations all the time... It's either sink or swim eh ? We should choose to swim.

Yes, and their credit rating goes in the toilet. US 10 year treasury interest is running about 1.7%. and is AAA rated. Most EU countries are running 1.3% to 3% with ratings that run BBB to AAA. There is little chance that the demand for US debt will fall unless we do something incredibly stupid such as defaulting on our debt. This could happen if right wing extremists were able control congress and stood firm on not raising the debt limit. This could eventually result in a default if the administration was not able to cut spending fast enough.

Once a nation defaults on it's debt which means refusing to make good on their debts or failing to make interest payments, their bond rating would drop to D (default). The value of the debt could drop as much 90% or more as would other debts secured by US treasuries.

Republicans' would get what they have wanted for years, zero deficits. However, the unintended consequences would be a drop in the US dollar that would result in a drastically cut in foreign imports first leading to shortages, hyperinflation followed by a depression with the US unable strengthen the US dollars. The economic fall of the US would drag down many of our allies who hold US debt. The winners would be China, Russia, and Saadia Arabia. It the US were able to recover, it would be some sort of fascist republic. It would be the end of the "Great American Experiment". All this is highly unlikely but possible.

 

[sealybobo]

SS and MC were started in 1934 and 1965 respectfully. In 1934 job were much more physical and people’s bodies broke down starting in their 50s. Nowadays go to any company and you see people working well into their 70s… heck even construction are less strenuous on the person’s body. The trend is only going to increase. In addition, medicine is getting better and people are living longer. This reality should be recognized.

In addition it is much easier to take care of oneself and eat better and feel better at older ages.

Our safety nets need to reflect this new reality.

It’s 67 for people my age. 51. Do you think people want to work when they are 68?

I wish they would give medicare at 62. I might have to wait till 65 because of healthcare.

What do you think about lowering Medicare to 62? Then if you want to raise the age on people younger than me, sure.

How much would you take to buy out of social security? At age 60. What if they said take $20,000 and you’ll get no social security. Would you take it?

 

[Flopper]

It’s 67 for people my age. 51. Do you think people want to work when they are 68?

I wish they would give medicare at 62. I might have to wait till 65 because of healthcare.

What do you think about lowering Medicare to 62? Then if you want to raise the age on people younger than me, sure.

How much would you take to buy out of social security? At age 60. What if they said take $20,000 and you’ll get no social security. Would you take it?

Since the average retired worker will be receiving $1658 a month in 2022, you would probably need to add a zero to your offer to make it look attractive.

I retired early at 59 1/2. Had to wait 3 years for early S.S. retirement and 6 years for Medicare. I don't recommend early retirement at 59 or 62 unless you can't continue working or you have a large nest egg set aside for retirement and a plan for what you're going to do. The two biggest mistakes people make in retiring are:

• Not having a real plan for retirement. Too many people retire with the idea, that life will be just wonderful if only they didn't have to go to work. Sitting under the old oak tree, watering the grass, visiting the kids, grocery shopping, watching the grass grow is not a good way to live unless that is the kind of life you led before retirement. I did this for about 4 years and then started a small business and continued to work till our was 70. At that age, I was ready for retirement. My health was not that good and we had a ton of money due to the extra years of work so we were able to do a lot of stuff like buying an RV and seeing the country, 3 cruises, a trip to Europe, a new condo, and a vacation yearly to visit the kids.
• Living too long. Most people underestimate how long they will live by about 5 to 10 years. More years in retirement coupled with the false assumption that you won't need much money when you're retired puts millions of retiree in a situation where all they have is a roof over their head, food to eat, and years do little but waiting to die. That is not the way to spend your golden years.

 

[Flopper]

Since the average retired worker will be receiving $1658 a month in 2022, you would probably need to add a zero to your offer to make it look attractive.

I retired early at 59 1/2. Had to wait 3 years for early S.S. retirement and 6 years for Medicare. I don't recommend early retirement at 59 or 62 unless you can't continue working or you have a large nest egg set aside for retirement and a plan for what you're going to do. The two biggest mistakes people make in retiring are:

• Not having a real plan for retirement. Too many people retire with the idea, that life will be just wonderful if only they didn't have to go to work. Sitting under the old oak tree, watering the grass, visiting the kids, grocery shopping, watching the grass grow is not a good way to live unless that is the kind of life you led before retirement. I did this for about 4 years and then started a small business and continued to work till our was 70. At that age, I was ready for retirement. My health was not that good and we had a ton of money due to the extra years of work so we were able to do a lot of stuff like buying an RV and seeing the country, 3 cruises, a trip to Europe, a new condo, and a vacation yearly to visit the kids.
• Living too long. Most people underestimate how long they will live by about 5 to 10 years. More years in retirement coupled with the false assumption that you won't need much money when you're retired puts millions of retirees in a situation where all they have is a roof over their head, food to eat, and years doing little but waiting to die. That is not the way to spend your golden years.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Since the average retired worker will be receiving $1658 a month in 2022, you would probably need to add a zero to your offer to make it look attractive.

I retired early at 59 1/2. Had to wait 3 years for early S.S. retirement and 6 years for Medicare. I don't recommend early retirement at 59 or 62 unless you can't continue working or you have a large nest egg set aside for retirement and a plan for what you're going to do. The two biggest mistakes people make in retiring are:

• Not having a real plan for retirement. Too many people retire with the idea, that life will be just wonderful if only they didn't have to go to work. Sitting under the old oak tree, watering the grass, visiting the kids, grocery shopping, watching the grass grow is not a good way to live unless that is the kind of life you led before retirement. I did this for about 4 years and then started a small business and continued to work till our was 70. At that age, I was ready for retirement. My health was not that good and we had a ton of money due to the extra years of work so we were able to do a lot of stuff like buying an RV and seeing the country, 3 cruises, a trip to Europe, a new condo, and a vacation yearly to visit the kids.
• Living too long. Most people underestimate how long they will live by about 5 to 10 years. More years in retirement coupled with the false assumption that you won't need much money when you're retired puts millions of retiree in a situation where all they have is a roof over their head, food to eat, and years do little but waiting to die. That is not the way to spend your golden years.

It all depends. Everybody's situation is different. I was forced to go on disability at 59 1/2. I have my rental property income to help out, and not going to touch my IRA until I can no longer be a landlord. I found out six months ago I had stage four cancer. They gave me 6 months to a year to live. They said with chemo, I could extend that by a year, two, three or more depending on how the chemo goes which from what I told, very successful.

I was devastated when the doctor told me I could no longer work. Seeing what happened only two years later, I'm glad it worked out this way. At least I get to enjoy life a bit. My sister wants to ride it out until she's 67 which is two more years. She struggles every day to continue working and it's killing her. What happens if she gets sick like me when she nears that age? She will have worked all her life hating every minute.