Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

[uscitizen]

Ahh the fat smokers who use birth control?

 

[Meathead]

I smoke and I should be spanked for it, please!

 

[Dragonlady]

So, does this thread illustrate anything to you? This particular issue is the number one reason I don't want to see government in charge of health care. It creates a strong incentive for state intrusion in our lives. Socializing personal responsibilities subjugates us to the state, making our personal decisions public concerns. With programs like PPACA, how do you prevent such intrusion? Or is the intrusion the goal?

Bullshit. I live in a country with government funded healthcare. The state is far less intrusive in MY life as a Canadian, than your health care system is in yours. We smoke and drink at our peril, and yes, those who get cancer, have problems with alcohol abuse, drug abuse and obesity get treatment from our health care programs the same as anybody else.

We also have state funded abortion on demand and yet we have 60% fewer abortions than you people.

YOUR government is far more intrusive and "nanny state" than ours. Nobody tells people how to live their lives. We're not banning sodas and transfat. We tax the hell out of cigarettes and booze and let those who are dealing themselves health problems with their addictions, pay for it.

Every liberal idea is not so the state can take over your lives. In fact, lots of liberal ideas are about getting the state out of your lives. Our great Liberal Prime Minister, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, once said "The state has no business in the bedrooms of our nation.

In the US, Conservatives say you can't marry someone of the same sex, women can't get abortions without "informed consent" which amounts to anti-abortionist brain washing, teenagers can't get birth control without their parents' consent, and all sorts of other "nanny state" crap. These are the self-same Conservatives who are calling for "personal responsibility".

Conservatives seemed to be trying to suck and blow at the same time, and that never works well.

 

[Misty]

Some of the same people that bemoan smoking and the OBese health care costs are some of the same people that want to legalize weed. Now tell me how weed smoke is any better than cigarette smoke.
Theres too much phony indignation as far as im concerned.

Not that I disagree with you however marijuana doesn't have nicotine which is an addictive component and it also is what causes cancer.

But I do not think people should be punished for smoking cigarettes nor for being fat.

I don't think the government should run our lives.

Even though i think abortion is horrible I don't think the government should encourage it or discourage it.

 

[April]

Obesity is its own worst punishment - kinda like virginity.

I can see an association between obesity and virginity.
I would not be surprised if these two women were virgins:


Two Women Who Were “Amply Proportioned”

Is that a diet pop and some bottled water sitting next to them?
lol.

 

[skye]

Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

I smoke ..and let me tell you...smokers are already penalized.


It's all about a Nanny society....getting nannier and nannier by the second....we are all living in a big Kindergarten . Coffee will be next.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

... Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates...

Some have said they don't like the ACA because they can no longer get their health care for free. Should the rest of us have to pay for smoker's and the obese higher health care costs? If not, how do we make them responsible for their own higher health care costs? Or, does their right to smoke and be fat negate our right to not have to pay those extra costs.

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

Instead of worrying about women's health insurance paying for birth control, maybe its time we forced smokers and the obese to pay higher premiums.

Why not go after cigarette makers who lied before Congress and go after trans fats in foods?

Why punish the addicted? Very Judeo-Christian take on things.

I would think punishment would be a last resort after all else failed. Punishment is what conservatives and progressives usually advocate for societal and personal ills. Why is that? We don't punish motorcyclists. we insist they wear helmets and it is publicized if they don't they will be fined.

 

[Zander]

Authoritarians simply want to help you! It's for your own good!!! Give up your personal liberty, you are simply not capable of handling that level of freedom...

 

[kwc57]

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

... Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates...

Some have said they don't like the ACA because they can no longer get their health care for free. Should the rest of us have to pay for smoker's and the obese higher health care costs? If not, how do we make them responsible for their own higher health care costs? Or, does their right to smoke and be fat negate our right to not have to pay those extra costs.

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

Instead of worrying about women's health insurance paying for birth control, maybe its time we forced smokers and the obese to pay higher premiums.

If the government ever decides to penalize the stoopid, you're in a world of hurt.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

I smoke ..and let me tell you...smokers are already penalized.


It's all about a Nanny society....getting nannier and nannier by the second....we are all living in a big Kindergarten . Coffee will be next.

you stink.

anyone who takes up smoking in this day and age is an idiot. How long have you been a slave to tobacco and the secret ingredients?

 

[skye]

Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

I smoke ..and let me tell you...smokers are already penalized.


It's all about a Nanny society....getting nannier and nannier by the second....we are all living in a big Kindergarten . Coffee will be next.

you stink.

anyone who takes up smoking in this day and age is an idiot. How long have you been a slave to tobacco and the secret ingredients?

And who are you to tell me what to do?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Authoritarians simply want to help you! It's for your own good!!! Give up your personal liberty, you are simply not capable of handling that level of freedom...

Progressives, whether of the conservative or liberal stripe...and of course populism which most here get behind...always end up advocating things that lean towards Authoritarianism

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

I smoke ..and let me tell you...smokers are already penalized.


It's all about a Nanny society....getting nannier and nannier by the second....we are all living in a big Kindergarten . Coffee will be next.

you stink.

anyone who takes up smoking in this day and age is an idiot. How long have you been a slave to tobacco and the secret ingredients?

And who are you to tell me what to do?

smoking has clouded your brain.

never TOLD you what to do. Now suck on something else besides a cig...that would be telling you what to do.

:the wave:

 

[skye]

you stink.

anyone who takes up smoking in this day and age is an idiot. How long have you been a slave to tobacco and the secret ingredients?

And who are you to tell me what to do?

smoking has clouded your brain.

never TOLD you what to do. Now suck on something else besides a cig...that would be telling you what to do.

:the wave:

The 18th Amendment didn't work in the 1920s.

Haven't you learned anything from History?

 

[Connery]

I have a little gadget I use to tell me what the effects of not smoking has been on me since I quit.

Here are the latest figures:
Cigarettes NOT smoked: 176350
Lifetime Saved: 44 months, 27 days, 2 hours
Money Saved: $70,528.00


I penalized myself enough when I did smoke. I did not need any government intervention.

 

[skye]

I have a little gadget I use to tell me what the effects of not smoking has been on me since I quit.

Here are the latest figures:
Cigarettes NOT smoked: 176350
Lifetime Saved: 44 months, 27 days, 2 hours
Money Saved: $70,528.00


I penalized myself enough when I did smoke. I did not need any government intervention.

And that is what I mean.

It was your decision not a Nanny Government that made that decision for you!

 

[Connery]

I have a little gadget I use to tell me what the effects of not smoking has been on me since I quit.

Here are the latest figures:
Cigarettes NOT smoked: 176350
Lifetime Saved: 44 months, 27 days, 2 hours
Money Saved: $70,528.00


I penalized myself enough when I did smoke. I did not need any government intervention.

And that is what I mean.

It was your decision not a Nanny Government that made that decision for you!

Exactly. Moreover, I support a person's decision to smoke if want to. I have bought smokes for people and booze as well, not an issue for me. Smoking worked for me, then it did not, so I quit.

 

[skye]

I have a little gadget I use to tell me what the effects of not smoking has been on me since I quit.

Here are the latest figures:
Cigarettes NOT smoked: 176350
Lifetime Saved: 44 months, 27 days, 2 hours
Money Saved: $70,528.00


I penalized myself enough when I did smoke. I did not need any government intervention.

And that is what I mean.

It was your decision not a Nanny Government that made that decision for you!

Exactly. Moreover, I support a person's decision to smoke if want to. I have bought smokes for people and booze as well, not an issue for me. Smoking worked for me, then it did not, so I quit.

I agree.

You could go tell that ... to the Anti-Smoking-Nazi brigade!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

And who are you to tell me what to do?

smoking has clouded your brain.

never TOLD you what to do. Now suck on something else besides a cig...that would be telling you what to do.

:the wave:

The 18th Amendment didn't work in the 1920s.
Haven't you learned anything from History?

No one is proposing anything like it. grow up

and stating the fact that "you stink because you smoke" does not make one part of any Anti-Smoking-Nazi brigade.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dante is for people smoking if they want to, as long as they do not harm others in the process

the societal costs cannot be ignored. Look at China. They had a difficult time buying enough equipment to deal with the costs of increased smoking after the Tobacco Liars left America for more ignorant shores