Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

[DeeDeeJack]

I managed the health insurance for a small company for 13 years and I hate to tell everyone but insurance companies have looked at the life styles of everyone applying for health insurance for a long time. And, rates reflected bad behavior. So, if you smoked or drank too much or had any kind of pre-existing disease or were over-weight, you paid a higher premium than those who were considered average. And, if they found that you lied on your health questionaire, they could and did cancel your policy or increase the premium substantially. Also, they could deny coverage if they felt someone was a high risk. Remember ACA was partially written BY insurance companies.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I managed the health insurance for a small company for 13 years and I hate to tell everyone but insurance companies have looked at the life styles of everyone applying for health insurance for a long time. And, rates reflected bad behavior. So, if you smoked or drank too much or had any kind of pre-existing disease or were over-weight, you paid a higher premium than those who were considered average. And, if they found that you lied on your health questionaire, they could and did cancel your policy or increase the premium substantially. Also, they could deny coverage if they felt someone was a high risk. Remember ACA was partially written BY insurance companies.

Oh look folks, FACTS.

Welcome to the board DeeDee and thanks for being the voice of reason.

 

[dblack]

Smoke and eat all you want but pay your own frickin bills.

Exactly! Are we actually agreeing?

 

[Connery]

I managed the health insurance for a small company for 13 years and I hate to tell everyone but insurance companies have looked at the life styles of everyone applying for health insurance for a long time. And, rates reflected bad behavior. So, if you smoked or drank too much or had any kind of pre-existing disease or were over-weight, you paid a higher premium than those who were considered average. And, if they found that you lied on your health questionaire, they could and did cancel your policy or increase the premium substantially. Also, they could deny coverage if they felt someone was a high risk. Remember ACA was partially written BY insurance companies.

Is this higher premium reflected in a group rate for the small company or done on an individual basis for employee, in your experience.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I respect your opinion ...I have mine.


I do not want a Nanny State telling me what to do or what not to do.


That's all there is to it.

No, actually that's NOT all there is to it. Nor is the "nanny state" telling you not to smoke. Others have said it but I'll say it again - Smoke and eat all you want but pay your own frickin bills.

And who is saying the contrary???????????????? ...............WHO????????????

I pay for any possible "frickin bill" of mine


I do not belong to the party who gives entitlements and freebies!!!!!!!


I PAY FOR MY FRICKIN BLOODY BILL!

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

 

[dblack]

No, actually that's NOT all there is to it. Nor is the "nanny state" telling you not to smoke. Others have said it but I'll say it again - Smoke and eat all you want but pay your own frickin bills.

And who is saying the contrary???????????????? ...............WHO????????????

I pay for any possible "frickin bill" of mine


I do not belong to the party who gives entitlements and freebies!!!!!!!


I PAY FOR MY FRICKIN BLOODY BILL!

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

So, guilty until proven innocent? Even before you've committed any crime. Nice.

 

[skye]

No, actually that's NOT all there is to it. Nor is the "nanny state" telling you not to smoke. Others have said it but I'll say it again - Smoke and eat all you want but pay your own frickin bills.

And who is saying the contrary???????????????? ...............WHO????????????

I pay for any possible "frickin bill" of mine


I do not belong to the party who gives entitlements and freebies!!!!!!!


I PAY FOR MY FRICKIN BLOODY BILL!

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

Look...you choose your poison I choose my mine....I pay for the consequences I pay for my health if needed......that much is clear! CLEAR OK?

What I object to is a Big Brother Nanny Government telling me every step of the way how to live my life.

I have a huge problem with that.

 

[Connery]

And who is saying the contrary???????????????? ...............WHO????????????

I pay for any possible "frickin bill" of mine


I do not belong to the party who gives entitlements and freebies!!!!!!!


I PAY FOR MY FRICKIN BLOODY BILL!

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

Look...you choose your poison I choose my mine....I pay for the consequences I pay for my health if needed......that much is clear! CLEAR OK?

What I object to is a Big Brother Nanny Government telling me every step of the way how to live my life.

I have a huge problem with that.

I agree and what bugs me is that the Big Brother Nanny Government allows this substance or behavior to be conducted then penalizing a person for doing it.

 

[PixieStix]

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

No it doesn't.

Smokers are forced to pay a huge tax percentage on cigarettes.

The question IS. What is the government doing with this huge tax on cigarettes?

$30 to $35 is tax on a carton of smokes. That is more than half of the cost.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

So, does this thread illustrate anything to you?

Yes it does.

They typical rw who posts here wants to control who one marries, all facets of women's reproductive rights (while refusing responsibility for the inevitable children born). They want criminals and terrorists and illegals to get free health care that the rest of have to pay for as well as any and all guns and huge capacity ammo clips. They don't want to pay for their own health care, want to be able to get free health care at the emergency room (along with the aforementioned criminals and terrorists and illegals) and they want government to keep their hands off their Medicare/Medicaid/Soc Sec. They want to stuff their faces and pollute their lungs but don't want to pay for the resultant increased health care costs and throw a baby hissy fit if you tell them to exhale in their own home/car but not in mine (or any other place you wanna name).

They say that Obama wants to give "stuff" away but they say that only because its what they were told to say.

Fact is, its the right who wants it all for free, no responsibility for children, no responsibility for people shot dead and no responsibility for their own health care costs. The rw's don't want a nanny state but they demand exactly that.

IOW, its SSDD here at USMB.

Another wonderfully stupid post from a liberal moron. The only thing I want from the government is to repair the roads I pay for, defend me from foreign attack, and deliver the mail on time.

Fact is anything more than that invites liberal morons to affect my life.

The fact that an entire generation paid into social security their entire lives does nothing at all to faze a liberal moron. If they are actually paid what is due them from the government, they seem to think they are government mooches.

Same thing with the GI Bill. Have you ever stopped to think that the GI Bill is a perk for having done a job?

Nah, to them, it's just another handout from the government.

They want universal health care for everyone but the sick, I guess.

The idea of fair exchange is beyond their meager comprehension.

By the way, state governments have always controlled marriage. Of course, when the states don't see things their way, there's always a convenient judge to gainsay the will of the people.

Homosexuals have exactly the same right to marry as everyone else. If states want to expand marriage to people of the same sex, the states can. If the states want to keep marriage between people of different sexes, they can do that, too.

Civil rights do not extend to one's choice of a marriage partner. No, you do not have the right to marry anyone you please. No one does.

 

[Connery]

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

No it doesn't.

Smokers are forced to pay a huge tax percentage on cigarettes.

The question IS. What is the government doing with this huge tax on cigarettes?

$30 to $35 is tax on a carton of smokes. That is more than half of the cost.

The additives in cigarets have an addictive quality as well insuring repeat customers and entices new users. "Current US-style cigarettes generally contain about a 10% level of additives according to weight, mostly in the form of sugars, humectants, ammonia compounds, cocoa, and licorice.19,20 Most other additives are used in small amounts, less than 0.01% of total weight. There is evidence that the percentage of additives by weight may have increased in the 1990s, especially the use of sweeteners (which many researchers believe were added to entice younger people to smoke)."
Pharmacological and Chemical Effects of Cigarette Additives

 

[Luddly Neddite]

And who is saying the contrary???????????????? ...............WHO????????????

I pay for any possible "frickin bill" of mine


I do not belong to the party who gives entitlements and freebies!!!!!!!


I PAY FOR MY FRICKIN BLOODY BILL!

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

So, guilty until proven innocent? Even before you've committed any crime. Nice.

Yep. Just like auto insurance.

For too many years, hospitals, doctors have said, "sure, we trust you to pay your bill". The result is that we have lost most trauma and burn centers because they're too expensive to keep open while patients walk out on their bills. Hospitals are struggling to stay open and doctors are struggling to stay in business - all because "YOU" didn't pay your bill or "YOU" refuse to pay for your own health insurance.

Do you think you should be able to pick out your groceries and then promise to come back on payday to pay for them?

Name other products and/or services you get to use and then promise to pay for later, at your convenience, because you don't like the "nanny state" charging you for what you use.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

Look...you choose your poison I choose my mine....I pay for the consequences I pay for my health if needed......that much is clear! CLEAR OK?

What I object to is a Big Brother Nanny Government telling me every step of the way how to live my life.

I have a huge problem with that.

I agree and what bugs me is that the Big Brother Nanny Government allows this substance or behavior to be conducted then penalizing a person for doing it.

So, neither of you believe that Big Brother Nanny State should control your body's reproduction and who you marry.

Cool.

 

[syrenn]

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

... Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates...

Some have said they don't like the ACA because they can no longer get their health care for free. Should the rest of us have to pay for smoker's and the obese higher health care costs? If not, how do we make them responsible for their own higher health care costs? Or, does their right to smoke and be fat negate our right to not have to pay those extra costs.

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

Instead of worrying about women's health insurance paying for birth control, maybe its time we forced smokers and the obese to pay higher premiums.

what?

you want to penalize someone for a pre existing condition?

 

[dblack]

Actually, it is the right that has said they do not want to pay for their own health insurance and its the right that says they want to keep EMTALA in place.

Surely you understand why (just as with auto insurance) you should be required to prove your ability to actually pay your own bills.

If you don't understand, just look at the P&L of any hospital.

So, guilty until proven innocent? Even before you've committed any crime. Nice.

Yep. Just like auto insurance.

Exactly. And just as wrong. Corporations shouldn't be allowed to use government to force customers to buy their products.

For too many years, hospitals, doctors have said, "sure, we trust you to pay your bill". The result is that we have lost most trauma and burn centers because they're too expensive to keep open while patients walk out on their bills. Hospitals are struggling to stay open and doctors are struggling to stay in business - all because "YOU" didn't pay your bill or "YOU" refuse to pay for your own health insurance.

Take your bullshit accusations elsewhere. If and when I don't pay my bills, then we'll talk. Until then, mind your own fucking business.

I wonder if you'll ever be ready to face up to the sheer bullying at the core of your statist ideology...

 

[Connery]

Look...you choose your poison I choose my mine....I pay for the consequences I pay for my health if needed......that much is clear! CLEAR OK?

What I object to is a Big Brother Nanny Government telling me every step of the way how to live my life.

I have a huge problem with that.

I agree and what bugs me is that the Big Brother Nanny Government allows this substance or behavior to be conducted then penalizing a person for doing it.

So, neither of you believe that Big Brother Nanny State should control your body's reproduction and who you marry.

Cool.

Relevance to the OP?: Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

 

[auditor0007]

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

... Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates...

Some have said they don't like the ACA because they can no longer get their health care for free. Should the rest of us have to pay for smoker's and the obese higher health care costs? If not, how do we make them responsible for their own higher health care costs? Or, does their right to smoke and be fat negate our right to not have to pay those extra costs.

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

Instead of worrying about women's health insurance paying for birth control, maybe its time we forced smokers and the obese to pay higher premiums.

I have no problem making smokers pay more. I paid more when I was a smoker. Six months after quitting, I was given non-smoker rates. As for the obese, I do not like the idea of penalizing them, because some of them are obese for reasons pretty much beyond their control. Knowing who is just overeating and fat because of it versus those with other medical reasons would cause a mess trying to figure it out. We do need to work on reducing the obesity epidemic though. The hardest thing to do is to get an overweight person to care enough to actually do something about it. Most are not willing to do it the right way, which leads to constant failure every time they diet. The bottom line is that dieting does not work. People who are overweight must make a life change, not just go on a short term diet. And most often, that life change must involve both eating properly and exercising. Most Americans are a bunch of lazy shits when it comes to exercising.

 

[auditor0007]

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

No it doesn't.

Smokers are forced to pay a huge tax percentage on cigarettes.

The question IS. What is the government doing with this huge tax on cigarettes?

$30 to $35 is tax on a carton of smokes. That is more than half of the cost.

The additives in cigarets have an addictive quality as well insuring repeat customers and entices new users. "Current US-style cigarettes generally contain about a 10% level of additives according to weight, mostly in the form of sugars, humectants, ammonia compounds, cocoa, and licorice.19,20 Most other additives are used in small amounts, less than 0.01% of total weight. There is evidence that the percentage of additives by weight may have increased in the 1990s, especially the use of sweeteners (which many researchers believe were added to entice younger people to smoke)."
Pharmacological and Chemical Effects of Cigarette Additives

People start smoking for one reason and one reason only, to be cool. And they continue to smoke for the same reason. Their friends smoke, so they decide to give it a try, or they are pushed into trying it. Maybe they are really young kids and think it's cool, so they try it.

Here's the thing; when you first start smoking for the first time, a few things usually happen. First of all, the cigarettes taste like shit. It's a lot like licking an ashtray clean. It's absolutely disgusting. The second thing that happens, is that when a person first tries to inhale, the body says "fuck you, I don't want this in me". After finally figuring out how to inhale without completely going into a coughing frenzy, then the first time smoker gets a head rush. If they smoke too much in the beginning, they will likely become nauseous and may well puke their guts out. And yes, I remember all of these things happening to me when I was 14 years old and smoked my first few cigarettes.

Bottom line, even after people have become addicted, they find ways to tell themselves that it's cool. Since their friends do it too, they don't want to be left out, so they continue smoking. The addiction is real, but the will to quit never comes for many, because they are afraid they will lose a part of themselves if they quit. It truly is an odd addiction, because much of it is really psychological. When I finally quit, after 30 years, it was pretty easy, and I quit cold turkey.

BTW, anyone who thinks it is really hard to quit and that withdrawal is just horrible, check out a YouTube video of someone going through heroin withdrawal. Withdrawal from cigarettes is a minor annoyance. Withdrawal from caffeine can be much worse. And yea, I've done that one too. One week of a non-ending headache on top of vomiting and the dry heaves. All that from quitting caffeine cold turkey.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Look...you choose your poison I choose my mine....I pay for the consequences I pay for my health if needed......that much is clear! CLEAR OK?

What I object to is a Big Brother Nanny Government telling me every step of the way how to live my life.

I have a huge problem with that.

I agree and what bugs me is that the Big Brother Nanny Government allows this substance or behavior to be conducted then penalizing a person for doing it.

So, neither of you believe that Big Brother Nanny State should control your body's reproduction and who you marry.

Cool.

And you agree BB has no right to say what kind of arms I'm allowed you own.

How does that hypocrisy taste?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

smoking has clouded your brain.

never TOLD you what to do. Now suck on something else besides a cig...that would be telling you what to do.

:the wave:

The 18th Amendment didn't work in the 1920s.
Haven't you learned anything from History?

No one is proposing anything like it. grow up

and stating the fact that "you stink because you smoke" does not make one part of any Anti-Smoking-Nazi brigade.

Dante is for people smoking if they want to, as long as they do not harm others in the process

the societal costs cannot be ignored. Look at China. They had a difficult time buying enough equipment to deal with the costs of increased smoking after the Tobacco Liars left America for more ignorant shores


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