Should we penalize smokers and the obese?

[Papageorgio]

As the article asks, should we just let them die early?

"We" shouldn't be making this call at all. "We" should mind our own fucking business.

Oh hell, why would liberals want that?

 

[sitarro]

Sorry folks but it ain't none of your business if someone smokes, eats too much, drinks, or does drugs.

Mind your own fucking business will ya?

Actually, it is. I don't want to be paying more taxes to cover the costs of these filthy smokers, or the fat heifers who can't stop feeding their faces. Why should my taxes have to pay for their medical treatment?

They should only be entitled to free medical treatment up to the amount of tax they have paid in their life time. If they have paid $10,000 tax in their lifetime, that's $10,000 of medical treatment they get for free, and the rest they have to cough up for.

That'll fix em.

Most of my property taxes go to schools, I don't have kids, don't want kids.....don't like kids. Why should I have to pay anything for schools?

 

[Dragonlady]

Most of my property taxes go to schools, I don't have kids, don't want kids.....don't like kids. Why should I have to pay anything for schools?

Do you want doctors and nurses who can look after you when you get old, since you'll have no children to do it for you? Do you use the services of accountants, lawyers, ministers, professionals of any type? Do you shop in stores, drive on roads, or use public transportation? Do you keep your money in the bank? Do you eat in restaurants, go to theatres, and live your life in the modern worlds?

If you do any of these things, then you need educated people in your community who can provide you with the services you need, or who can create the goods or services you wish to purchase. Just because you don't have children doesn't mean you don't need a well educated team of caregivers available to you.

 

[zeke]

Having read most of the posts you all have written, I have to think that none of you understand how insurance works.

The hated government is not going to do anything about fat people and smokers.

The insurance companies are difinitely going to adjust your insurance costs based on your health profile.

One of the "great" things about digitizing medical records will be the ease of sorting through all those records to adjust your premium costs.

My wifes insurance company is willing to slow the percentage of increase on premimums, IF we are willing to do certain screenings. ie smoking, obesity, BP and blood sugar as well as colestrol levels etc.

And Obamacare allows for all this to happen. Insurance companies may not be able to deny you coverage, but they sure can make your premiums reflect your degree of health.

You all are fooling yourself. And of course the repugs don't want to pay for their selfish, unhealthy behavior. They don't believe in that "personal responsiblity" thing anymore.

I mean hell why should I, weighing three hundred pounds, smoking three packs a day, why should that person have to pay any more premium than the person that weighs what they should and doesn't smoke. Surely you don't think that heart disease, diabetes, and cancer cost very much to treat?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry folks but it ain't none of your business if someone smokes, eats too much, drinks, or does drugs.

Mind your own fucking business will ya?

Actually, it is. I don't want to be paying more taxes to cover the costs of these filthy smokers, or the fat heifers who can't stop feeding their faces. Why should my taxes have to pay for their medical treatment?

They should only be entitled to free medical treatment up to the amount of tax they have paid in their life time. If they have paid $10,000 tax in their lifetime, that's $10,000 of medical treatment they get for free, and the rest they have to cough up for.

That'll fix em.

How will your taxes go up if your neighbor smokes?

They won't.

No one here is entitled to free medical treatment. And our taxes are not earmarked for medical treatment. Besides smoker already pay extra taxes.

 

[thanatos144]

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

... Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates...

Some have said they don't like the ACA because they can no longer get their health care for free. Should the rest of us have to pay for smoker's and the obese higher health care costs? If not, how do we make them responsible for their own higher health care costs? Or, does their right to smoke and be fat negate our right to not have to pay those extra costs.

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

Instead of worrying about women's health insurance paying for birth control, maybe its time we forced smokers and the obese to pay higher premiums.

The fact that you even ask this question is why you are progressives like you are all fascists.

 

[Connery]

The hated government is not going to do anything about fat people and smokers.

Really? Just by way of example....

State of New York - Regulation of Smoking in Public and Work Places

§ 1399-o. Smoking restrictions.

1. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke in the following indoor areas:

• Places of employment;
• Bars;
• Food service establishments, except as provided in subdivision six of section thirteen hundred ninety-nine-q of this article;
• Enclosed indoor areas open to the public containing a swimming pool;
• public means of mass transportation, including subways, underground subway stations, and when occupied by passengers, buses, vans, taxicabs and limousines;
• Ticketing, boarding and waiting areas in public transportation terminals;
• Youth centers and facilities for detention as defined in sections five hundred twenty-seven-a and five hundred three of the executive law;
• Any facility that provides child care services as defined in section four hundred ten-p of the social services law, provided that such services provided in a private home are excluded from this subdivision when children enrolled in such day care are not present;
• Child day care centers as defined in section three hundred ninety of the social services law and child day care centers licensed by the city of New York;
• Group homes for children as defined in section three hundred seventy-one of the social services law;
• Public institutions for children as defined in section three hundred seventy-one of the social services law;
• Residential treatment facilities for children and youth as defined in section 1.03 of the mental hygiene law;
• All public and private colleges, universities and other educational and vocational institutions, including dormitories, residence halls, and other group residential facilities that are owned or operated by such colleges, universities and other educational and vocational institutions, except that these restrictions shall not apply in any off-campus residential unit occupied by a person who is not enrolled as an undergraduate student in such college, university or other educational institution;
• General hospitals and residential health care facilities as defined in article twenty-eight of this chapter, and other health care facilities licensed by the state in which persons reside; provided, however, that the provisions of this subdivision shall not prohibit smoking by patients in separate enclosed rooms of residential health care facilities, adult care facilities established or certified under title two of article seven of the social services law, community mental health residences established under section 41.44 of the mental hygiene law, or facilities where day treatment programs are provided, which are designated as smoking rooms for patients of such facilities or programs;
• Commercial establishments used for the purpose of carrying on or exercising any trade, profession, vocation or charitable activity;
• Indoor arenas;
• Zoos; and
• Bingo facilities.

2. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke in the following outdoor areas: Ticketing, boarding or platform areas of railroad stations operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority or its subsidiaries.
3. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke within one hundred feet of the entrances, exits or outdoor areas of any public or private elementary or secondary schools; provided, however, that the provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to smoking in a residence, or within real property boundary lines of such residential real property. The provisions of section Thirteen Hundred Ninety-Nine-P of this article shall not apply to this subdivision.

State of New York - Regulation of Smoking in Public and Work Places

Obesity

"The city's Board of Health approved Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s ban on large sugar-sweetened drinks at its monthly meeting Thursday morning. Eight members voted for it, and one abstained; no one voted against the proposal.

Under the plan, all restaurants, fast-food joints, delis, movie theaters, sports stadiums and even food carts will be barred from selling sugar-sweetened drinks in cups larger than 16 ounces.

“This is the single biggest step any city has ever taken to curb obesity,” Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at a press conference after the vote. “We believe that it will help save lives"
Ban on Large Sodas Rubber-Stamped by Board of Health - DNAinfo.com New York

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Having read most of the posts you all have written, I have to think that none of you understand how insurance works.

The hated government is not going to do anything about fat people and smokers.

The insurance companies are difinitely going to adjust your insurance costs based on your health profile.

One of the "great" things about digitizing medical records will be the ease of sorting through all those records to adjust your premium costs.

My wifes insurance company is willing to slow the percentage of increase on premimums, IF we are willing to do certain screenings. ie smoking, obesity, BP and blood sugar as well as colestrol levels etc.

And Obamacare allows for all this to happen. Insurance companies may not be able to deny you coverage, but they sure can make your premiums reflect your degree of health.

You all are fooling yourself. And of course the repugs don't want to pay for their selfish, unhealthy behavior. They don't believe in that "personal responsiblity" thing anymore.

I mean hell why should I, weighing three hundred pounds, smoking three packs a day, why should that person have to pay any more premium than the person that weighs what they should and doesn't smoke. Surely you don't think that heart disease, diabetes, and cancer cost very much to treat?

Wow. Another FACTUAL post.

But, reading other posts, FACTS be damned. The rw's are still gonna blame Obama. Or, stupidly, call libs "fascists", even though they obviously don't even know what the word means!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The hated government is not going to do anything about fat people and smokers.

Really? Just by way of example....

State of New York - Regulation of Smoking in Public and Work Places

§ 1399-o. Smoking restrictions.

1. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke in the following indoor areas:

• Places of employment;
• Bars;
• Food service establishments, except as provided in subdivision six of section thirteen hundred ninety-nine-q of this article;
• Enclosed indoor areas open to the public containing a swimming pool;
• public means of mass transportation, including subways, underground subway stations, and when occupied by passengers, buses, vans, taxicabs and limousines;
• Ticketing, boarding and waiting areas in public transportation terminals;
• Youth centers and facilities for detention as defined in sections five hundred twenty-seven-a and five hundred three of the executive law;
• Any facility that provides child care services as defined in section four hundred ten-p of the social services law, provided that such services provided in a private home are excluded from this subdivision when children enrolled in such day care are not present;
• Child day care centers as defined in section three hundred ninety of the social services law and child day care centers licensed by the city of New York;
• Group homes for children as defined in section three hundred seventy-one of the social services law;
• Public institutions for children as defined in section three hundred seventy-one of the social services law;
• Residential treatment facilities for children and youth as defined in section 1.03 of the mental hygiene law;
• All public and private colleges, universities and other educational and vocational institutions, including dormitories, residence halls, and other group residential facilities that are owned or operated by such colleges, universities and other educational and vocational institutions, except that these restrictions shall not apply in any off-campus residential unit occupied by a person who is not enrolled as an undergraduate student in such college, university or other educational institution;
• General hospitals and residential health care facilities as defined in article twenty-eight of this chapter, and other health care facilities licensed by the state in which persons reside; provided, however, that the provisions of this subdivision shall not prohibit smoking by patients in separate enclosed rooms of residential health care facilities, adult care facilities established or certified under title two of article seven of the social services law, community mental health residences established under section 41.44 of the mental hygiene law, or facilities where day treatment programs are provided, which are designated as smoking rooms for patients of such facilities or programs;
• Commercial establishments used for the purpose of carrying on or exercising any trade, profession, vocation or charitable activity;
• Indoor arenas;
• Zoos; and
• Bingo facilities.

2. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke in the following outdoor areas: Ticketing, boarding or platform areas of railroad stations operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority or its subsidiaries.
3. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke within one hundred feet of the entrances, exits or outdoor areas of any public or private elementary or secondary schools; provided, however, that the provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to smoking in a residence, or within real property boundary lines of such residential real property. The provisions of section Thirteen Hundred Ninety-Nine-P of this article shall not apply to this subdivision.

State of New York - Regulation of Smoking in Public and Work Places

Obesity

"The city's Board of Health approved Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s ban on large sugar-sweetened drinks at its monthly meeting Thursday morning. Eight members voted for it, and one abstained; no one voted against the proposal.

Under the plan, all restaurants, fast-food joints, delis, movie theaters, sports stadiums and even food carts will be barred from selling sugar-sweetened drinks in cups larger than 16 ounces.

“This is the single biggest step any city has ever taken to curb obesity,” Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at a press conference after the vote. “We believe that it will help save lives"
Ban on Large Sodas Rubber-Stamped by Board of Health - DNAinfo.com New York

So smokers can't pollute other people's breathing space. Works for me. I would think that rw's would be in favor of not allowing one group to force another group to engage in behavior against their will but, as with other issues, I am wrong. In FACT, the rw's love nothing more than to force others to abide by their rules. (That's why abortion and marriage equality enter into it. But, you already knew that, didn't you.)

Where is the part where government charges smokers more than non-smokers. Or, did you cherry pick that one phrase so you would not have to address the actual topic of the conversation?

BTW, I really like #3 under the smoking law. I really get sick (literally) of walking through a haze of stench just to get into a building. Smoke all you want but you do not have the right to force me to smoke as well.

 

[thanatos144]

Having read most of the posts you all have written, I have to think that none of you understand how insurance works.

The hated government is not going to do anything about fat people and smokers.

The insurance companies are difinitely going to adjust your insurance costs based on your health profile.

One of the "great" things about digitizing medical records will be the ease of sorting through all those records to adjust your premium costs.

My wifes insurance company is willing to slow the percentage of increase on premimums, IF we are willing to do certain screenings. ie smoking, obesity, BP and blood sugar as well as colestrol levels etc.

And Obamacare allows for all this to happen. Insurance companies may not be able to deny you coverage, but they sure can make your premiums reflect your degree of health.

You all are fooling yourself. And of course the repugs don't want to pay for their selfish, unhealthy behavior. They don't believe in that "personal responsiblity" thing anymore.

I mean hell why should I, weighing three hundred pounds, smoking three packs a day, why should that person have to pay any more premium than the person that weighs what they should and doesn't smoke. Surely you don't think that heart disease, diabetes, and cancer cost very much to treat?

Wow. Another FACTUAL post.

But, reading other posts, FACTS be damned. The rw's are still gonna blame Obama. Or, stupidly, call libs "fascists", even though they obviously don't even know what the word means!

We call you a fascist you fucking idiot cause you are a fascist.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Or, stupidly, call libs "fascists", even though they obviously don't even know what the word means!

Please look it up.

Thanks.

 

[thanatos144]

Or, stupidly, call libs "fascists", even though they obviously don't even know what the word means!

Please look it up.

Thanks.

Yes why dont you look it up ????? Maybe cause it would show the turth that it is you who want to control others lives?

 

[BillyV]

Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

... Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates...

Some have said they don't like the ACA because they can no longer get their health care for free. Should the rest of us have to pay for smoker's and the obese higher health care costs? If not, how do we make them responsible for their own higher health care costs? Or, does their right to smoke and be fat negate our right to not have to pay those extra costs.

And, yes, the extra costs do fall to the entire society to pay.

Instead of worrying about women's health insurance paying for birth control, maybe its time we forced smokers and the obese to pay higher premiums.

Absolutely! Those darn smokers and fatties should pay extra for their bad habits! Why should society support them?

I also think that non-smoking, thin, "healthy" people should pay extra into social security and medicare; the societal costs of paying for them to live to 100 shouldn't be borne by those who will be lucky just to reach 65. Fair is fair, right?

The fact is that the lifetime societal costs of medical care is highest for those who live the longest; while unheathy habits may lead to expensive mid-life health issues, the long-lived actually have access to medical care for a longer period and therefore cost the most.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No individual has any additional monetary obligation to "society" than the taxes required by law.

So if you want some people to pay more than others get it passed into law and good luck with that.

 

[BillyV]

No individual has any additional monetary obligation to "society" than the taxes required by law.

So if you want some people to pay more than others get it passed into law and good luck with that.

Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

No individual has any additional monetary obligation to "society" than the taxes required by law.

So if you want some people to pay more than others get it passed into law and good luck with that.

Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it?

My sarcasm detector runs on caffeine and I am out of coffee

 

[GHook93]

Some of the same people that bemoan smoking and the OBese health care costs are some of the same people that want to legalize weed. Now tell me how weed smoke is any better than cigarette smoke.
Theres too much phony indignation as far as im concerned.

Weed doesn't have tar or nicortine that cause cancer, but it does give one the munchies and makes the gordo!

 

[Dragonlady]

Actually, some of the by-products of combustion are just as harmful in weed as they are in cigarettes. Using a vaporizer solves those issues.

 

[Connery]

The hated government is not going to do anything about fat people and smokers.

Really? Just by way of example....

State of New York - Regulation of Smoking in Public and Work Places

§ 1399-o. Smoking restrictions.

1. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke in the following indoor areas:

• Places of employment;
• Bars;
• Food service establishments, except as provided in subdivision six of section thirteen hundred ninety-nine-q of this article;
• Enclosed indoor areas open to the public containing a swimming pool;
• public means of mass transportation, including subways, underground subway stations, and when occupied by passengers, buses, vans, taxicabs and limousines;
• Ticketing, boarding and waiting areas in public transportation terminals;
• Youth centers and facilities for detention as defined in sections five hundred twenty-seven-a and five hundred three of the executive law;
• Any facility that provides child care services as defined in section four hundred ten-p of the social services law, provided that such services provided in a private home are excluded from this subdivision when children enrolled in such day care are not present;
• Child day care centers as defined in section three hundred ninety of the social services law and child day care centers licensed by the city of New York;
• Group homes for children as defined in section three hundred seventy-one of the social services law;
• Public institutions for children as defined in section three hundred seventy-one of the social services law;
• Residential treatment facilities for children and youth as defined in section 1.03 of the mental hygiene law;
• All public and private colleges, universities and other educational and vocational institutions, including dormitories, residence halls, and other group residential facilities that are owned or operated by such colleges, universities and other educational and vocational institutions, except that these restrictions shall not apply in any off-campus residential unit occupied by a person who is not enrolled as an undergraduate student in such college, university or other educational institution;
• General hospitals and residential health care facilities as defined in article twenty-eight of this chapter, and other health care facilities licensed by the state in which persons reside; provided, however, that the provisions of this subdivision shall not prohibit smoking by patients in separate enclosed rooms of residential health care facilities, adult care facilities established or certified under title two of article seven of the social services law, community mental health residences established under section 41.44 of the mental hygiene law, or facilities where day treatment programs are provided, which are designated as smoking rooms for patients of such facilities or programs;
• Commercial establishments used for the purpose of carrying on or exercising any trade, profession, vocation or charitable activity;
• Indoor arenas;
• Zoos; and
• Bingo facilities.

2. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke in the following outdoor areas: Ticketing, boarding or platform areas of railroad stations operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority or its subsidiaries.
3. Smoking shall not be permitted and no person shall smoke within one hundred feet of the entrances, exits or outdoor areas of any public or private elementary or secondary schools; provided, however, that the provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to smoking in a residence, or within real property boundary lines of such residential real property. The provisions of section Thirteen Hundred Ninety-Nine-P of this article shall not apply to this subdivision.

State of New York - Regulation of Smoking in Public and Work Places

Obesity

"The city's Board of Health approved Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s ban on large sugar-sweetened drinks at its monthly meeting Thursday morning. Eight members voted for it, and one abstained; no one voted against the proposal.

Under the plan, all restaurants, fast-food joints, delis, movie theaters, sports stadiums and even food carts will be barred from selling sugar-sweetened drinks in cups larger than 16 ounces.

“This is the single biggest step any city has ever taken to curb obesity,” Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at a press conference after the vote. “We believe that it will help save lives"
Ban on Large Sodas Rubber-Stamped by Board of Health - DNAinfo.com New York

So smokers can't pollute other people's breathing space. Works for me. I would think that rw's would be in favor of not allowing one group to force another group to engage in behavior against their will but, as with other issues, I am wrong. In FACT, the rw's love nothing more than to force others to abide by their rules. (That's why abortion and marriage equality enter into it. But, you already knew that, didn't you.)

Where is the part where government charges smokers more than non-smokers. Or, did you cherry pick that one phrase so you would not have to address the actual topic of the conversation?

BTW, I really like #3 under the smoking law. I really get sick (literally) of walking through a haze of stench just to get into a building. Smoke all you want but you do not have the right to force me to smoke as well.

Cherry pick my ass pal.

That has been addressed in the taxes that are levied upon cigarettes.


As far as number 3 is concerned, you have been blowing smoke in this thread since inception and we tolerate your intellectual stench.

 

[Dragonlady]

The smoking bans in public buildings, bars and restaurants have made it possible for those of use who don't like cigarette smoke to go out in public again. I quit going to bars and restaurants completely in the 1990's because I couldn't stand the smoke. Now eating in restaurants is pleasant again.