"Silence Patton" and Follow-Up Book Shed Crucial Light on End of WWII and the Cold War

[mikegriffith1]

Those hundreds of millions (Not really) threw in with the Axis during the war. Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, - All members of the Axis, hoping to get territory from Germany's victims. All of them were happy to send their Jewish neighbors to the camps. Can't work up a lot of sympathy for them.

But you spew all kinds of sympathy for Mao Tse Tung, one of the worst mass murderers in world history, who murdered a bare minimum of 20 million of his fellow Chinese to consolidate his power, and who killed thousands of American soldiers in the Korean War. You've also spoken warmly of Joseph Stalin, who murdered at least 20 million Russians to seize and maintain his power, and who caused untold horror and suffering in Eastern Europe during and after WWII.

CrusaderFrank said:
Patton averaged 100 miles a month after the Normandy landing. Third Army soundly defeated the Germany at Arracort end of September and would have covered the last hundred miles to the German border by early November.

He defeated one German Corps... not the entire Wehrmacht, most of which was engaged on the eastern front. This is what you guys don't get. At any given time, 70% of the Wehrmacht, and most of Germany's allies, were engaged on the Eastern Front.

Oh my goodness. What a ridiculous argument. How can you post this stuff and expect to be taken seriously? You can't even admit facts that are acknowledged by historians from all across the spectrum. Patton did what Bradley and Montgomery had proved incapable of doing.

CrusaderFrank said:
Your love of Communism is demented.

Hardly. I can actually read a history book, which you clearly can't.

Wow! Well, at least you've once again admitted you're a Communist.

And, yes, your love of Communism is demented. It's also shameful and inexcusable, given all we now know about the horrors of Communist rule.

 

[JoeB131]

But you spew all kinds of sympathy for Mao Tse Tung, one of the worst mass murderers in world history, who murdered a bare minimum of 20 million of his fellow Chinese to consolidate his power, and who killed thousands of American soldiers in the Korean War. You've also spoken warmly of Joseph Stalin, who murdered at least 20 million Russians to seize and maintain his power, and who caused untold horror and suffering in Eastern Europe during and after WWII.

Hardly sympathy. I've been very critical of the Cultural Revolution or the Great Leap Forward, which were practically Trumpian in their level of incompetence. (Actually, come to think of it, the Red Guards and MAGA have a lot in common!)

Okay, here's the thing. Civil Wars suck. Because you know everyone you kill.

Was China stronger in 1976 than it was in 1949? Of course it was, by any measure.
Was the USSR stronger in 1952 than it was in 1918? Absolutely.

If you ask an average Chinese about Mao, they will say glowing things. Heck, my wife still admires Mao, and she was born in the middle of the Great Leap famine.
And a recent poll of Russians listed Stalin (who wasn't even a Russian) as the third greatest leader in their history.

Oh my goodness. What a ridiculous argument. How can you post this stuff and expect to be taken seriously? You can't even admit facts that are acknowledged by historians from all across the spectrum. Patton did what Bradley and Montgomery had proved incapable of doing.

Again, Patton had some accomplishments, and he had some screwups. But it doesn't take away from the fact that 70% of the Wehrmacht was fighting the Soviets, not the Western Allies. The USSR did most of the heavy lifting during the war. It's why they were in control of 2/3rds of Europe when the war ended. Thankfully for us, they were as tired of war as we were.

Wow! Well, at least you've once again admitted you're a Communist.

And, yes, your love of Communism is demented. It's also shameful and inexcusable, given all we now know about the horrors of Communist rule.

Communism is horrible. So is capitalism. You whine like a little twat over all the people Stalin supposedly killed, but you never talk about how your fellow Mormon Cultists came to be in charge of Utah, and what happened to the Pauite again? Let's talk about what happened to the Aboriginal Australians. That's a genocide that no one seems to talk all that much about for some reason. Hey, let's talk about what King Leopold did in the Belgian Congo. 2 million died there because he was making a profit off of rubber!!!

 

[eagle7-31]

Hardly sympathy. I've been very critical of the Cultural Revolution or the Great Leap Forward, which were practically Trumpian in their level of incompetence. (Actually, come to think of it, the Red Guards and MAGA have a lot in common!)

Okay, here's the thing. Civil Wars suck. Because you know everyone you kill.

Was China stronger in 1976 than it was in 1949? Of course it was, by any measure.
Was the USSR stronger in 1952 than it was in 1918? Absolutely.

If you ask an average Chinese about Mao, they will say glowing things. Heck, my wife still admires Mao, and she was born in the middle of the Great Leap famine.
And a recent poll of Russians listed Stalin (who wasn't even a Russian) as the third greatest leader in their history.



Again, Patton had some accomplishments, and he had some screwups. But it doesn't take away from the fact that 70% of the Wehrmacht was fighting the Soviets, not the Western Allies. The USSR did most of the heavy lifting during the war. It's why they were in control of 2/3rds of Europe when the war ended. Thankfully for us, they were as tired of war as we were.


Communism is horrible. So is capitalism. You whine like a little twat over all the people Stalin supposedly killed, but you never talk about how your fellow Mormon Cultists came to be in charge of Utah, and what happened to the Pauite again? Let's talk about what happened to the Aboriginal Australians. That's a genocide that no one seems to talk all that much about for some reason. Hey, let's talk about what King Leopold did in the Belgian Congo. 2 million died there because he was making a profit off of rubber!!!

Katyn massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sure Stalin was very accomplished.

 

[JoeB131]

Katyn massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sure Stalin was very accomplished.

No one denied he did awful things.

But did the USSR have a net benefit from his rule? Um, yeah. It emerged as a world power, gained territory, and expanded its influence worldwide.

 

[eagle7-31]

No one denied he did awful things.

But did the USSR have a net benefit from his rule? Um, yeah. It emerged as a world power, gained territory, and expanded its influence worldwide.

And slaughtered millions in the process.

 

[JoeB131]

And slaughtered millions in the process.

Well, I kind of doubt that, because the population of the USSR increased on Stalin's watch. (Despite the wars and the famines and the supposed mass murders)

 

[eagle7-31]

Well, I kind of doubt that, because the population of the USSR increased on Stalin's watch. (Despite the wars and the famines and the supposed mass murders)

Try telling that to the Ukraine about Stalin. BTW Stalin AFTER the Cassablanca conference offered Hitler a deal to end the war in Russia.


The above youtube link is mostly about Himmler but goes into the spring 1943 offer Stalin made to Hitler.

 

[mikegriffith1]

eagle7-31 said:
And slaughtered millions in the process.

Well, I kind of doubt that, because the population of the USSR increased on Stalin's watch. (Despite the wars and the famines and the supposed mass murders)

Just incredible, and shameful. So you are, once again, denying that Stalin was a mass murderer. This is further proof that you are a Marxist loon. No serious, reputable scholar denies that Stalin murdered at least 15-20 million Russians to maintain his power.

You are every bit as bad as a neo-Nazi who defends Hitler and denies the Holocaust or a radical Muslim who defends Osama Bin Laden. You have no business posting in serious threads because you have zero credibility. I don't even advocate banning Holocaust deniers, but I do believe in calling them out for what they are. Holocaust deniers are denying the execution of 6 million Jews. You are denying the execution of tens of millions of Russians.

When you denied that Stalin committed mass murder in a previous thread a few years ago, I provided numerous scholarly links to educate you. But, of course, you did not read them, or you read them but rejected them. In this day and age, I don't know what sources you could be using that are denying that Stalin was a mass murderer. You never cited a single source to support your obscene, looney position.

For your education, here are just a few scholarly links that discuss the universally acknowledged fact that Stalin murdered tens of millions of people even before WWII.

Stalin's Genocides

Review of Stalin's Genocides

Stalin Killed Millions

How Many People Did Stalin Kill?

Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died as Victims of Stalin

How Joseph Stalin Starved Millions in the Ukrainian Famine

Revelations from the Russian Archives

Killed by USSR

Stalin's Purges Added to Vast Human Cost of WWII

New Insights into the Scale of Killing in the USSR during the 1930s

Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-1933: 7,000,000 Deaths

Joseph Stalin (Wilson Center Biography)

Worldwide Recognition of the Holodomor as Genocide

Holodomor Basic Facts

The Truth About Stalin's Prison Camps

 

[San Souci]

Thats just Bullshit, and just why would you have wanted the Nazis to murder more soviet citizens unless you are deranged or a Nazi?

So what? If the Nazis and the fuckin' Reds had killed each other ,it would have saved the World much grief.

 

[eagle7-31]

Just incredible, and shameful. So you are, once again, denying that Stalin was a mass murderer. This is further proof that you are a Marxist loon. No serious, reputable scholar denies that Stalin murdered at least 15-20 million Russians to maintain his power.

You are every bit as bad as a neo-Nazi who defends Hitler and denies the Holocaust or a radical Muslim who defends Osama Bin Laden. You have no business posting in serious threads because you have zero credibility. I don't even advocate banning Holocaust deniers, but I do believe in calling them out for what they are. Holocaust deniers are denying the execution of 6 million Jews. You are denying the execution of tens of millions of Russians.

When you denied that Stalin committed mass murder in a previous thread a few years ago, I provided numerous scholarly links to educate you. But, of course, you did not read them, or you read them but rejected them. In this day and age, I don't know what sources you could be using that are denying that Stalin was a mass murderer. You never cited a single source to support your obscene, looney position.

For your education, here are just a few scholarly links that discuss the universally acknowledged fact that Stalin murdered tens of millions of people even before WWII.

Stalin's Genocides

Review of Stalin's Genocides

Stalin Killed Millions

How Many People Did Stalin Kill?

Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died as Victims of Stalin

How Joseph Stalin Starved Millions in the Ukrainian Famine

Revelations from the Russian Archives

Killed by USSR

Stalin's Purges Added to Vast Human Cost of WWII

New Insights into the Scale of Killing in the USSR during the 1930s

Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-1933: 7,000,000 Deaths

Joseph Stalin (Wilson Center Biography)

Worldwide Recognition of the Holodomor as Genocide

Holodomor Basic Facts

The Truth About Stalin's Prison Camps

Not; all but many on the left were played like fools with effective communist propaganda over the years.

 

[JoeB131]

Just incredible, and shameful. So you are, once again, denying that Stalin was a mass murderer. This is further proof that you are a Marxist loon. No serious, reputable scholar denies that Stalin murdered at least 15-20 million Russians to maintain his power.

Then how is it that the USSRs population increased from 147MM when Stalin took power in 1926 to 208MM in 1959. This on top of the 20 million people the USSR lost in WWII.

They still managed to gain 61MM people over a 30-year period. You claimed 20 Million were being murdered.

Demographics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are every bit as bad as a neo-Nazi who defends Hitler and denies the Holocaust or a radical Muslim who defends Osama Bin Laden. You have no business posting in serious threads because you have zero credibility. I don't even advocate banning Holocaust deniers, but I do believe in calling them out for what they are. Holocaust deniers are denying the execution of 6 million Jews. You are denying the execution of tens of millions of Russians.

Someone who thinks OJ didn't do it has no business being treated seriously... especially after OJ Admitted he did it.

Here's the thing about whining about mass murder in China or Russia or even Germany.

My Cherokee ancestors would like to have a word. We live in a country where white Europeans EXTERMINATED the indigenous cultures through centuries of ACTUAL genocide. We could talk about what your Mormon co-religionists did to the Paiute, where they were worked to death in Silver mines.

When you denied that Stalin committed mass murder in a previous thread a few years ago, I provided numerous scholarly links to educate you. But, of course, you did not read them, or you read them but rejected them. In this day and age, I don't know what sources you could be using that are denying that Stalin was a mass murderer. You never cited a single source to support your obscene, looney position.

No need to. The population of the USSR INCREASED under Stalin's rule. INCREASED, despite the famines and wars.

Now, yes, I do believe Stalin is responsible for deaths. The Ukrainian famine was a huge case of mismanagement, but so was the Bengal Famine, where the British let 4 Million Indians die, and Churchill quipped, "Did Ghandi Starve?" (Churchill hated Ghandi more than he hated Hitler.) World War II could have been avoided if Stalin hadn't played footsie with Hitler.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Then how is it that the USSRs population increased from 147MM when Stalin took power in 1926 to 208MM in 1959. This on top of the 20 million people the USSR lost in WWII.

They still managed to gain 61MM people over a 30-year period. You claimed 20 Million were being murdered.

Demographics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Someone who thinks OJ didn't do it has no business being treated seriously... especially after OJ Admitted he did it.

Here's the thing about whining about mass murder in China or Russia or even Germany.

My Cherokee ancestors would like to have a word. We live in a country where white Europeans EXTERMINATED the indigenous cultures through centuries of ACTUAL genocide. We could talk about what your Mormon co-religionists did to the Paiute, where they were worked to death in Silver mines.

No need to. The population of the USSR INCREASED under Stalin's rule. INCREASED, despite the famines and wars.

Now, yes, I do believe Stalin is responsible for deaths. The Ukrainian famine was a huge case of mismanagement, but so was the Bengal Famine, where the British let 4 Million Indians die, and Churchill quipped, "Did Ghandi Starve?" (Churchill hated Ghandi more than he hated Hitler.) World War II could have been avoided if Stalin hadn't played footsie with Hitler.

Many forums would have banned you by now. You partially back-pedal in one post and then return to your full-throated Maoist/Stalinist propaganda a short time later. You are a Marxist wingnut and a Mao and Stalin apologist. You are worse than a Holocaust denier.

I have more credibility in my pinky finger than you have in your entire Mao-loving body. You're not worth dealing with.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And slaughtered millions in the process.

And declared FDR as a dependent oh his USSR taxes

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Then how is it that the USSRs population increased from 147MM when Stalin took power in 1926 to 208MM in 1959. This on top of the 20 million people the USSR lost in WWII.

They still managed to gain 61MM people over a 30-year period. You claimed 20 Million were being murdered.

Demographics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Someone who thinks OJ didn't do it has no business being treated seriously... especially after OJ Admitted he did it.

Here's the thing about whining about mass murder in China or Russia or even Germany.

My Cherokee ancestors would like to have a word. We live in a country where white Europeans EXTERMINATED the indigenous cultures through centuries of ACTUAL genocide. We could talk about what your Mormon co-religionists did to the Paiute, where they were worked to death in Silver mines.



No need to. The population of the USSR INCREASED under Stalin's rule. INCREASED, despite the famines and wars.

Now, yes, I do believe Stalin is responsible for deaths. The Ukrainian famine was a huge case of mismanagement, but so was the Bengal Famine, where the British let 4 Million Indians die, and Churchill quipped, "Did Ghandi Starve?" (Churchill hated Ghandi more than he hated Hitler.) World War II could have been avoided if Stalin hadn't played footsie with Hitler.

Did the population “increase” take captured Eastern European nations into account??

 

[JoeB131]

Many forums would have banned you by now. You partially back-pedal in one post and then return to your full-throated Maoist/Stalinist propaganda a short time later. You are a Marxist wingnut and a Mao and Stalin apologist. You are worse than a Holocaust denier.

I have more credibility in my pinky finger than you have in your entire Mao-loving body. You're not worth dealing with.

When did I deny the Holocaust? I just don't think it should be an excuse for the Zionist Squatters to genocide Palestinians.

I never backpedal. I just engage in bullshit calling famines mass murders like you seem to.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I recommend military historian James Holland's 2022 article "Rethinking How We View General Patton." Although Holland argues that Patton's achievements have been overstated by some, he acknowledges that Patton was an effective commander and discusses an often-overlooked aspect of Patton's skill in warfare:

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not for a moment disputing Patton’s tactical acumen, but I would suggest that what lay behind the sweeping gains in Sicily and then France was operational brilliance. In Sicily, the Seventh Army was the first field army the U.S. had put into action in the war—yet within a week of landing, Patton had created a new corps, an all-arms mechanized force, that was able to advance more than 100 miles in a matter of days. That doesn’t just happen with a click of the fingers. That requires deep understanding and sublimely good staff work—by a team that Patton put together. The same was true of the Third Army’s drive through Brittany and their turn east to the Moselle, some 350 miles away.

By the second week of September 1944, all Allied armies in the West had made similarly large strides through France and into Belgium. At that point they ran out of steam. Patton lobbied for the Third Army to be given priority for diminishing supplies in order to cross the Moselle and smash the German border defenses at the Siegfried Line, but was overruled. This prompted him to go on the defensive and focus all the more on preparation. Patton very sensibly did not consider launching a major offensive unless he had overwhelming amounts of men and supplies to guarantee success. So he began bringing up bridging equipment and large numbers of engineers, and instigated intensive training. This was not tactical chutzpah, but methodical and painstaking operational planning. And the subsequent capture of the northeastern French city of Metz, the help his forces provided in the Ardennes, and the later crossing of the mighty Rhine were as much to do with planning and preparation—the operational art—as with tactical dash. Patton’s tactical flair, in fact, was only possible because of his operational skill. It’s time, I think, to reconsider Patton afresh. (LINK)