Singers vs Musicians.

I've never had much respect for people who only sing. Especially these days. Singers are a dime-a-dozen. One singer sounds like another.

And the shows now like The Voice and American Idol. I'm much less than impressed. IMO, singing takes very little in the way of talent. It might take dedication, but talent? No. Unless your definition of talent is simply "ability". I, do not have the ability. No amount of singing lessons or effort can make this voice sound appealing. My vocal range is very narrow. You are eithr born with the ability to sing, or you aren't.

Not so with musicians. No one is born knowing how to play a guitar, or a piano, or a violin. Learning to play an instrument takes almost a lifetime of dedication and sacrifice. I would watch a show like American Idol, if it featured musicians battling it out for the top prize. Singers bore me to tears.

The problem with the music today is that people are paying more attention to the singers, and not caring about the musicians. Today's music will continue to suck ass until that trend reverses itself.

Another problem today is that many musicians are not learning their craft as well.

Hasn't that always been the case though? I'm 57 and have known many musicians, some talented, some only adequate. My daughter is engaged to a drummer who is currently in two bands. I would rate him as somewhere in the middle of the talent pool. He works hard at it though.
 
No, it takes work and dedication to pound on some drums or strum a guitar and actually make music come out of it. Not an even playing field at all.

Just as it takes years of hard work and dedication to play on an NFL or MLB field or to sing on a stage.

I don't believe that is true for the singer. I believe that with about 1 year of professional training, my 14 year old daughter could compete as a singer. Her voice now, without one second of training is superb naturally.

I spent three years singing in a bar band, back in the day. You're absolutely wrong.
 
Suggesting that vocalists do not hone and develop their craft betrays a fundamental ignorance of what is actually involved. Sure, people aren't born knowing how to play a guitar, but there are still plenty of people who would suck at it no matter how much time they put in, just like the OP says about singing.
 
I however, will never be able to sing no matter how much I try. You are born with a voice, or you aren't.

So basically it boils down to, you can't do it, therefore you have no respect for those who can.

Do you apply the same standard to Doctors and Physicists?
 
Just as it takes years of hard work and dedication to play on an NFL or MLB field or to sing on a stage.

I don't believe that is true for the singer. I believe that with about 1 year of professional training, my 14 year old daughter could compete as a singer. Her voice now, without one second of training is superb naturally.

I spent three years singing in a bar band, back in the day. You're absolutely wrong.

Oh, you know my daughter? Sorry, I didn't know that.
 
Suggesting that vocalists do not hone and develop their craft betrays a fundamental ignorance of what is actually involved. Sure, people aren't born knowing how to play a guitar, but there are still plenty of people who would suck at it no matter how much time they put in, just like the OP says about singing.

I NEVER suggested that vocalists do not hone or develop their craft.
 
Suggesting that vocalists do not hone and develop their craft betrays a fundamental ignorance of what is actually involved. Sure, people aren't born knowing how to play a guitar, but there are still plenty of people who would suck at it no matter how much time they put in, just like the OP says about singing.

I NEVER suggested that vocalists do not hone or develop their craft.

Sure you did. You dismissed vocal talent as something people are born with.

Did you forget already? :cuckoo:
 
Think Freddy Mercury.

I know he was born with it. But he refined his voice through hard work.

I'm really torn on this issue. And I would kill to have a singing voice like Adele or Nancy or Grace or my favorite diva of all times Ronnie.

I have said all along that there are some who are born with a mediocre voice that through work, achieve greatness, but there are also those who are born with great voices and require only refinement.

No one is born knowing how to play the violin.

Rare very rare.

Kenny Wayne it's like Jehovah threw him the guitar.

I understand where you are coming from. Like I said in another post we are in a American Idol lifetime.

But and I hope you will listen to me on this. The great vocalists of the past are everything one can admire because they weren't cookie cutters from Simon.

Think Freddy. Think Joplin. Think Neil Young. Think Dylan.Think Ian Underwood.

So I agree but beg to differ.
 
Sorry, but having an unusual voice is not the same as being a great singer. Bob Dylan was not a great singer. Ozzy Osbourne has an unusual voice, which is a big part of why he remained popular for so long, but I wouldn't call him a great singer. :)
 
I don't believe that is true for the singer. I believe that with about 1 year of professional training, my 14 year old daughter could compete as a singer. Her voice now, without one second of training is superb naturally.

I spent three years singing in a bar band, back in the day. You're absolutely wrong.

Oh, you know my daughter? Sorry, I didn't know that.

Your first sentence, wise ass.
 
Sorry, but having an unusual voice is not the same as being a great singer. Bob Dylan was not a great singer. Ozzy Osbourne has an unusual voice, which is a big part of why he remained popular for so long, but I wouldn't call him a great singer. :)

Having worked the crazy ones, I'll take them over perfect.

How do you class Ronnie? How do you class Genya? How do you class Gracie?

All these voices were mine for a moment. How about Sylvia Tyson my mentor. Satin on Stone.
Do you know how fabulous she is?

These women were killer.

Very different voices. That's what made them special.
 
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Sorry, but having an unusual voice is not the same as being a great singer. Bob Dylan was not a great singer. Ozzy Osbourne has an unusual voice, which is a big part of why he remained popular for so long, but I wouldn't call him a great singer. :)

They got past their voices and past their A&R rep Anyone who has been in the business knows this shit.
 
Talent and skill at singing are only one part of what many great artists do. So, for someone like Dylan, it wasn't about his singing ability so much as his songwriting and lyrics IMO. Contrast that with a Whitney Houston, who I think was a great singer, but I don't know if she ever wrote any of her own music or lyrics. I'm not trying to denigrate Dylan as a performer or artist. :) He just didn't have the best singing voice.
 
I've never had much respect for people who only sing. Especially these days. Singers are a dime-a-dozen. One singer sounds like another.

And the shows now like The Voice and American Idol. I'm much less than impressed. IMO, singing takes very little in the way of talent. It might take dedication, but talent? No. Unless your definition of talent is simply "ability". I, do not have the ability. No amount of singing lessons or effort can make this voice sound appealing. My vocal range is very narrow. You are eithr born with the ability to sing, or you aren't.

Not so with musicians. No one is born knowing how to play a guitar, or a piano, or a violin. Learning to play an instrument takes almost a lifetime of dedication and sacrifice. I would watch a show like American Idol, if it featured musicians battling it out for the top prize. Singers bore me to tears.

The problem with the music today is that people are paying more attention to the singers, and not caring about the musicians. Today's music will continue to suck ass until that trend reverses itself.

Another problem today is that many musicians are not learning their craft as well.

Hasn't that always been the case though? I'm 57 and have known many musicians, some talented, some only adequate. My daughter is engaged to a drummer who is currently in two bands. I would rate him as somewhere in the middle of the talent pool. He works hard at it though.

I was a professional musician for many years and then gave it up because the lifestyle was endangering my existence. Few younger musicians today really impress me. When I go to see musicians like Richard Thompson and Steve Winwood they blow me away, and so do their bands.
 
Talent and skill at singing are only one part of what many great artists do. So, for someone like Dylan, it wasn't about his singing ability so much as his songwriting and lyrics IMO. Contrast that with a Whitney Houston, who I think was a great singer, but I don't know if she ever wrote any of her own music or lyrics. I'm not trying to denigrate Dylan as a performer or artist. :) He just didn't have the best singing voice.

I don't know if he a great singer but here sure sings great..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_swaxOidGU&list=PLC6A34B0A470967CF]Bob Dylan-Knockin' on Heaven's Door - YouTube[/ame]
 

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