Six months paid maternity leave for everyone! Then, maternity leave for non-parents too!

[thereisnospoon]

I don't recall Jesus promulgating the idea that employers are obligated to pay people to sit home and raise their children.

You should read up on the old Buddhist saying about teaching people to fish.

"Sit home and raise your children"
I'm guessing you're a guy? The first four months after giving birth were the most exhausted I've ever been in my life. Sleep? Sure, for maybe four hours at a time, if you're lucky. The first month or two I had one hell of a sore ass, a five week long period, serious anemia, and breasts too tender to touch, as well. You have a mewling, puking infant tied to your hip for every quick trip to the store, the laundromat, whatever. So you don't go out much. Being a mom is a very special thing, but I can't imagine trying to drag myself back to work in order to pay the bills during those first few months. Whoever wrote that OP calling for Meternity Time has no idea what she's talking about. Neither do people who think maternity leave is to "sit home" at your leisure, having a 'vacation.' Giving birth and caring for a newborn IS work. A lot of work. We all started out as newborns with someone who took the time to care for us. Perhaps it's time our society placed some sort of value on that. Maybe not as much as Norway--we don't want to pay Norway's taxes. Just value newborns and their caretakers some way.

Oh stop complaining. My Mom did this three times. She never complained.
Biology dictates our place in life.
For my parent's generation, having children was not only socially acceptable, it was a social expectation. No one complained.
Now having children is a choice many couples make. With that in mind, once that choice is made, most deal with the ups and downs. But there is now a vocal minority who find it necessary to bitch and moan about every aspect of pregnancy and post natal care.
Ya know what? This is part of being an adult.
No one said pregnancy and child bearing/rearing was not work. it is . However, we as adults make a conscious choice to do this. Once that choice is made, there is no room for complaining. No one wants to hear it.
Me-ternity? Please. This is someone trying to stir the pot.
Although. The writer just may be on to something.
The theory I have is this is a tongue in cheek shot at this pervasive notion of equality of outcome. That if a certain interest group wants a certain benefit, yet that benefit is not extended to all, it just isn't fair.
Some may ask why it is the just because a coworker decided to pump out a kid, why they get to have a 12 week period of full pay and not having to come to the job, while others whop make the choice NOT to produce children get to come to work everyday..
He says playing Devil's advocate.

In my mother's era, MOST women did NOT have to work in order for their family's to live a good middle class, comfy life. My mother never worked, she raised my sister and me as her "job" and my father worked outside the home, joined the service at 17, without graduating high school, but then got his GED, then got his college degree paid for by the military...and then went on to work for the FAA after he retired from the air force and now in their old age, live a wealthy comfortable, life.....

It was not a rarity in my parent's era to have the comfy middle class life on simply the husband's salary, like it is today....

So yes, women like your mom and my mom had a choice to not work and didn't work for the most part, until their kids hit kindergarten at earliest....

This is simply NOT the case today.... today and yesteryear are whole different ball games in my opinion and can not be compared... as you have compared in your devil's advocate scenario....

Oh it surely can be done. One parent at home with the kids.
The problem started in the 80's when keeping up appearances became more important than family. Also the new hard line feminist movement declared that women could "have it all"...Career, family, kids......The two income family manifested itself because people felt compelled to pursue material things. Bigger house, third vehicle. high cost activities for their kids( sports, etc) two vacations instead of one. More expensive convenience foods. pay tv of the highest tier instead of what they could afford on one income. Smart phones instead of basic. And lastly two income families are a result of poor money management. People with zero spending discipline. Buying on credit instead of paying cash. Spending more than they earn.

Fact is, two parents need to work in today's America. And they're now working harder & harder for less & less. It's just the way the Slave Master wants it. Give em just a taste. Give em just enough to barely survive. Keep tossin em scraps.

working harder & harder for less & less
Oh please spare me the hammer and sickle mantra.
SO you've gone from Libertarian to full fledged flaming lib......

 

[thereisnospoon]

The four corporations that I have worked for in my lifetime all gave the mother 6 weeks PAID Maternity leave and the last Corp gave the fathers 2 weeks as well...it was no money out of the company's pocket, it was built in to the price of the products we manufactured or acquired, and sold...pennies if even that on the item price when you figure how few women that worked for the company and got pregnant...and how many items we sold a year....

Technically, it was built into your TOTAL COMPENSATION package. That is to say, you got less cash in hand to pay for paid parental leave. So people who didn't need parental leave essentially paid for YOUR parental leave, if you had taken it.

BTW, such a policy is inherently sexist and probably illegal. Men should have equal opportunity for parental leave. Other than that, I personally have no problems with a company doing this. It's the company's decision to offer this as part of their compensation package. But it should be left to the employer to decide. Meanwhile, this "me-ternity" bullshit is still bullshit.

no,
It was built in to the price of the product....just like all compensation.....you all, who bought shoes, paid for it..., not the other workers without maternity leave....and no, it's not sexist...you can't bear a child through labor....you can't breast feed....

Even so, the last Corp paid the father for a couple of weeks to bond with their child and be there to help the mother/ the wifey...mostly.... again, the Company's choice.

I think 6 months is too much for any paid maternity leave by the employers but can see 6 weeks, and I don't think father's should be getting paid leave unless the company wants to...

And I don't think it should be mandatory for small businesses, it should be their choice, but I do think a tax deduction of some sort should be available for them, to make the choice to offer it, more feasible for them to do such.

It is money out of the company's pocket. The company takes a tax deduction on the loss of wages. It is a cost of business that is factored in to the cost of the product. If no one took maternity time off, the company would not lower the cost of the product or service.

The company raised the price of their products when they decided to add benefits for their employees Papa, NOT the other way around...

Same when they decide they need a 100 million a year CEO, Vs a 2 million dollar a year CEO.

And this of course ties into the fact that an artificial increase in the minimum wage does indeed have an upward effect on prices.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Every employee should get 8 weeks paid time off every year. This would give us time to re-generate. Businesses could get government funding for their employees time off. Also the government should pay employees for their vacations, if the employee decides to stay in the US, for vacation the government would pay two weeks, if the employee wanted to visit another company, only one week.

The company I worked for paid for 8 weeks for a c section. 6 for a natural birth.

Lots of companies have paid leave if you have worked for the company for at least a year prior.

Even Starbucks.

Thanks for the info. I was always under the impression most businesses didn't offer paid Maternity Leaves. I know many do offer Maternity Leaves, but they're usually unpaid leaves. So good on Starbucks.

Most corporations offer paid leave.

You can also take FMLA if you have Heath issues related to pregancy.

I wasn't aware most offered paid Maternity Leave. I knew many offer a leave, but i thought it was unpaid. I'll check into it a bit more. Thanks.

My wife works for a bancorp. 25 years ago she got 6 weeks paid maternity leave after our son was born

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Yes, treating our fellow human beings with respect and compassion is so damn outrageous. We don't need to become an enlightened compassionate species. We just need to continue hating each other and treating each other as badly as possible. So to hell with the babies and their parents. There's bleepin money to be made dammit!!. USA! USA! USA!

You're damned right. She needs to be clocking back in 24 hours after that baby is crowning.

If she works in an area with a soft carpet under her feet, I see no reason that she cant take a moment to pop the baby out and get right back to work.

 

[paulitician]

"Sit home and raise your children"
I'm guessing you're a guy? The first four months after giving birth were the most exhausted I've ever been in my life. Sleep? Sure, for maybe four hours at a time, if you're lucky. The first month or two I had one hell of a sore ass, a five week long period, serious anemia, and breasts too tender to touch, as well. You have a mewling, puking infant tied to your hip for every quick trip to the store, the laundromat, whatever. So you don't go out much. Being a mom is a very special thing, but I can't imagine trying to drag myself back to work in order to pay the bills during those first few months. Whoever wrote that OP calling for Meternity Time has no idea what she's talking about. Neither do people who think maternity leave is to "sit home" at your leisure, having a 'vacation.' Giving birth and caring for a newborn IS work. A lot of work. We all started out as newborns with someone who took the time to care for us. Perhaps it's time our society placed some sort of value on that. Maybe not as much as Norway--we don't want to pay Norway's taxes. Just value newborns and their caretakers some way.

Oh stop complaining. My Mom did this three times. She never complained.
Biology dictates our place in life.
For my parent's generation, having children was not only socially acceptable, it was a social expectation. No one complained.
Now having children is a choice many couples make. With that in mind, once that choice is made, most deal with the ups and downs. But there is now a vocal minority who find it necessary to bitch and moan about every aspect of pregnancy and post natal care.
Ya know what? This is part of being an adult.
No one said pregnancy and child bearing/rearing was not work. it is . However, we as adults make a conscious choice to do this. Once that choice is made, there is no room for complaining. No one wants to hear it.
Me-ternity? Please. This is someone trying to stir the pot.
Although. The writer just may be on to something.
The theory I have is this is a tongue in cheek shot at this pervasive notion of equality of outcome. That if a certain interest group wants a certain benefit, yet that benefit is not extended to all, it just isn't fair.
Some may ask why it is the just because a coworker decided to pump out a kid, why they get to have a 12 week period of full pay and not having to come to the job, while others whop make the choice NOT to produce children get to come to work everyday..
He says playing Devil's advocate.

In my mother's era, MOST women did NOT have to work in order for their family's to live a good middle class, comfy life. My mother never worked, she raised my sister and me as her "job" and my father worked outside the home, joined the service at 17, without graduating high school, but then got his GED, then got his college degree paid for by the military...and then went on to work for the FAA after he retired from the air force and now in their old age, live a wealthy comfortable, life.....

It was not a rarity in my parent's era to have the comfy middle class life on simply the husband's salary, like it is today....

So yes, women like your mom and my mom had a choice to not work and didn't work for the most part, until their kids hit kindergarten at earliest....

This is simply NOT the case today.... today and yesteryear are whole different ball games in my opinion and can not be compared... as you have compared in your devil's advocate scenario....

Oh it surely can be done. One parent at home with the kids.
The problem started in the 80's when keeping up appearances became more important than family. Also the new hard line feminist movement declared that women could "have it all"...Career, family, kids......The two income family manifested itself because people felt compelled to pursue material things. Bigger house, third vehicle. high cost activities for their kids( sports, etc) two vacations instead of one. More expensive convenience foods. pay tv of the highest tier instead of what they could afford on one income. Smart phones instead of basic. And lastly two income families are a result of poor money management. People with zero spending discipline. Buying on credit instead of paying cash. Spending more than they earn.

Fact is, two parents need to work in today's America. And they're now working harder & harder for less & less. It's just the way the Slave Master wants it. Give em just a taste. Give em just enough to barely survive. Keep tossin em scraps.

I really think that most of the reason the middle-class in this country is being squeezed out is inflation. 2% per year per generation adds up. It would be just a matter of time before future generations are unable to get anything at all. We try to tell people this but they would much rather cry about the lack of freebies in this country than actually working for things.

Corporate Fatcats have their hands out all the time. They receive plenty of Freebies. They own the Government.

 

[paulitician]

Thanks for the info. I was always under the impression most businesses didn't offer paid Maternity Leaves. I know many do offer Maternity Leaves, but they're usually unpaid leaves. So good on Starbucks.

Most corporations offer paid leave.

You can also take FMLA if you have Heath issues related to pregancy.

How dare you defend those evil corporations. My evil corporation already offers maternity leave for both the mother and father, short and long term paid disability leave, 4 weeks of vacation plus 12 paid holidays plus flex time schedules to work as little as 4 hours a day which some mothers use during the first year after birth plus full medical, eye, dental, mental health benefits, plus unpaid leave some new mothers opt for after the maternity leave, plus work at home, plus...well look our benefits document is over 30 pages long. That's those evil corporations for you and they didn't need a union or the government to force them into it. Corporations, what evil bastards they are.

Yep. I get 6 weeks paid vacation. Paid maternity leave, paid holidays, flex schedule, help paying for college,Health, vision , dental, 401k, life insurance, stock options and a shit load of employee discounts for local businesses including 5k from the dealership I purchased my new car from.

Evil corporations.

That's great, and i really do mean it. But that's not the case for millions & millions of other Americans.

It's rare for a corporation including Walmart, Target, Kmart etc to not offer benefits packages including vacation time,health insurance, retirement plans and even employee discounts.

I knew a woman who worked for Walmart. She told me it did allow her a Maternity Leave. But it was an unpaid leave. The leave only guaranteed that Walmart wouldn't fire her.

 

[paulitician]

"Sit home and raise your children"
I'm guessing you're a guy? The first four months after giving birth were the most exhausted I've ever been in my life. Sleep? Sure, for maybe four hours at a time, if you're lucky. The first month or two I had one hell of a sore ass, a five week long period, serious anemia, and breasts too tender to touch, as well. You have a mewling, puking infant tied to your hip for every quick trip to the store, the laundromat, whatever. So you don't go out much. Being a mom is a very special thing, but I can't imagine trying to drag myself back to work in order to pay the bills during those first few months. Whoever wrote that OP calling for Meternity Time has no idea what she's talking about. Neither do people who think maternity leave is to "sit home" at your leisure, having a 'vacation.' Giving birth and caring for a newborn IS work. A lot of work. We all started out as newborns with someone who took the time to care for us. Perhaps it's time our society placed some sort of value on that. Maybe not as much as Norway--we don't want to pay Norway's taxes. Just value newborns and their caretakers some way.

Oh stop complaining. My Mom did this three times. She never complained.
Biology dictates our place in life.
For my parent's generation, having children was not only socially acceptable, it was a social expectation. No one complained.
Now having children is a choice many couples make. With that in mind, once that choice is made, most deal with the ups and downs. But there is now a vocal minority who find it necessary to bitch and moan about every aspect of pregnancy and post natal care.
Ya know what? This is part of being an adult.
No one said pregnancy and child bearing/rearing was not work. it is . However, we as adults make a conscious choice to do this. Once that choice is made, there is no room for complaining. No one wants to hear it.
Me-ternity? Please. This is someone trying to stir the pot.
Although. The writer just may be on to something.
The theory I have is this is a tongue in cheek shot at this pervasive notion of equality of outcome. That if a certain interest group wants a certain benefit, yet that benefit is not extended to all, it just isn't fair.
Some may ask why it is the just because a coworker decided to pump out a kid, why they get to have a 12 week period of full pay and not having to come to the job, while others whop make the choice NOT to produce children get to come to work everyday..
He says playing Devil's advocate.

In my mother's era, MOST women did NOT have to work in order for their family's to live a good middle class, comfy life. My mother never worked, she raised my sister and me as her "job" and my father worked outside the home, joined the service at 17, without graduating high school, but then got his GED, then got his college degree paid for by the military...and then went on to work for the FAA after he retired from the air force and now in their old age, live a wealthy comfortable, life.....

It was not a rarity in my parent's era to have the comfy middle class life on simply the husband's salary, like it is today....

So yes, women like your mom and my mom had a choice to not work and didn't work for the most part, until their kids hit kindergarten at earliest....

This is simply NOT the case today.... today and yesteryear are whole different ball games in my opinion and can not be compared... as you have compared in your devil's advocate scenario....

Oh it surely can be done. One parent at home with the kids.
The problem started in the 80's when keeping up appearances became more important than family. Also the new hard line feminist movement declared that women could "have it all"...Career, family, kids......The two income family manifested itself because people felt compelled to pursue material things. Bigger house, third vehicle. high cost activities for their kids( sports, etc) two vacations instead of one. More expensive convenience foods. pay tv of the highest tier instead of what they could afford on one income. Smart phones instead of basic. And lastly two income families are a result of poor money management. People with zero spending discipline. Buying on credit instead of paying cash. Spending more than they earn.

Fact is, two parents need to work in today's America. And they're now working harder & harder for less & less. It's just the way the Slave Master wants it. Give em just a taste. Give em just enough to barely survive. Keep tossin em scraps.

^^ this I agree with. Sad when a two income household can net 30k a year and still be considered poverty level.

Yeah, we're going backwards as a nation. Americans are finding themselves working more & more for less & less. At this rate, the Middle Class will disappear in the near future. You'll have a nation of very poor and very rich. And that's when the real problems will begin for our country.

 

[paulitician]

"Sit home and raise your children"
I'm guessing you're a guy? The first four months after giving birth were the most exhausted I've ever been in my life. Sleep? Sure, for maybe four hours at a time, if you're lucky. The first month or two I had one hell of a sore ass, a five week long period, serious anemia, and breasts too tender to touch, as well. You have a mewling, puking infant tied to your hip for every quick trip to the store, the laundromat, whatever. So you don't go out much. Being a mom is a very special thing, but I can't imagine trying to drag myself back to work in order to pay the bills during those first few months. Whoever wrote that OP calling for Meternity Time has no idea what she's talking about. Neither do people who think maternity leave is to "sit home" at your leisure, having a 'vacation.' Giving birth and caring for a newborn IS work. A lot of work. We all started out as newborns with someone who took the time to care for us. Perhaps it's time our society placed some sort of value on that. Maybe not as much as Norway--we don't want to pay Norway's taxes. Just value newborns and their caretakers some way.

Oh stop complaining. My Mom did this three times. She never complained.
Biology dictates our place in life.
For my parent's generation, having children was not only socially acceptable, it was a social expectation. No one complained.
Now having children is a choice many couples make. With that in mind, once that choice is made, most deal with the ups and downs. But there is now a vocal minority who find it necessary to bitch and moan about every aspect of pregnancy and post natal care.
Ya know what? This is part of being an adult.
No one said pregnancy and child bearing/rearing was not work. it is . However, we as adults make a conscious choice to do this. Once that choice is made, there is no room for complaining. No one wants to hear it.
Me-ternity? Please. This is someone trying to stir the pot.
Although. The writer just may be on to something.
The theory I have is this is a tongue in cheek shot at this pervasive notion of equality of outcome. That if a certain interest group wants a certain benefit, yet that benefit is not extended to all, it just isn't fair.
Some may ask why it is the just because a coworker decided to pump out a kid, why they get to have a 12 week period of full pay and not having to come to the job, while others whop make the choice NOT to produce children get to come to work everyday..
He says playing Devil's advocate.

In my mother's era, MOST women did NOT have to work in order for their family's to live a good middle class, comfy life. My mother never worked, she raised my sister and me as her "job" and my father worked outside the home, joined the service at 17, without graduating high school, but then got his GED, then got his college degree paid for by the military...and then went on to work for the FAA after he retired from the air force and now in their old age, live a wealthy comfortable, life.....

It was not a rarity in my parent's era to have the comfy middle class life on simply the husband's salary, like it is today....

So yes, women like your mom and my mom had a choice to not work and didn't work for the most part, until their kids hit kindergarten at earliest....

This is simply NOT the case today.... today and yesteryear are whole different ball games in my opinion and can not be compared... as you have compared in your devil's advocate scenario....

Oh it surely can be done. One parent at home with the kids.
The problem started in the 80's when keeping up appearances became more important than family. Also the new hard line feminist movement declared that women could "have it all"...Career, family, kids......The two income family manifested itself because people felt compelled to pursue material things. Bigger house, third vehicle. high cost activities for their kids( sports, etc) two vacations instead of one. More expensive convenience foods. pay tv of the highest tier instead of what they could afford on one income. Smart phones instead of basic. And lastly two income families are a result of poor money management. People with zero spending discipline. Buying on credit instead of paying cash. Spending more than they earn.

Fact is, two parents need to work in today's America. And they're now working harder & harder for less & less. It's just the way the Slave Master wants it. Give em just a taste. Give em just enough to barely survive. Keep tossin em scraps.

working harder & harder for less & less
Oh please spare me the hammer and sickle mantra.
SO you've gone from Libertarian to full fledged flaming lib......

Just stating the current reality. Even two parents working full-time is a struggle for most. Americans are working more & more for less & less. Not good in a nation that boasts about being the wealthiest in the world. If both parents have to work to survive, something's wrong. We are moving backwards as a nation.

 

[paulitician]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oh stop complaining. My Mom did this three times. She never complained.
Biology dictates our place in life.
For my parent's generation, having children was not only socially acceptable, it was a social expectation. No one complained.
Now having children is a choice many couples make. With that in mind, once that choice is made, most deal with the ups and downs. But there is now a vocal minority who find it necessary to bitch and moan about every aspect of pregnancy and post natal care.
Ya know what? This is part of being an adult.
No one said pregnancy and child bearing/rearing was not work. it is . However, we as adults make a conscious choice to do this. Once that choice is made, there is no room for complaining. No one wants to hear it.
Me-ternity? Please. This is someone trying to stir the pot.
Although. The writer just may be on to something.
The theory I have is this is a tongue in cheek shot at this pervasive notion of equality of outcome. That if a certain interest group wants a certain benefit, yet that benefit is not extended to all, it just isn't fair.
Some may ask why it is the just because a coworker decided to pump out a kid, why they get to have a 12 week period of full pay and not having to come to the job, while others whop make the choice NOT to produce children get to come to work everyday..
He says playing Devil's advocate.

In my mother's era, MOST women did NOT have to work in order for their family's to live a good middle class, comfy life. My mother never worked, she raised my sister and me as her "job" and my father worked outside the home, joined the service at 17, without graduating high school, but then got his GED, then got his college degree paid for by the military...and then went on to work for the FAA after he retired from the air force and now in their old age, live a wealthy comfortable, life.....

It was not a rarity in my parent's era to have the comfy middle class life on simply the husband's salary, like it is today....

So yes, women like your mom and my mom had a choice to not work and didn't work for the most part, until their kids hit kindergarten at earliest....

This is simply NOT the case today.... today and yesteryear are whole different ball games in my opinion and can not be compared... as you have compared in your devil's advocate scenario....

Oh it surely can be done. One parent at home with the kids.
The problem started in the 80's when keeping up appearances became more important than family. Also the new hard line feminist movement declared that women could "have it all"...Career, family, kids......The two income family manifested itself because people felt compelled to pursue material things. Bigger house, third vehicle. high cost activities for their kids( sports, etc) two vacations instead of one. More expensive convenience foods. pay tv of the highest tier instead of what they could afford on one income. Smart phones instead of basic. And lastly two income families are a result of poor money management. People with zero spending discipline. Buying on credit instead of paying cash. Spending more than they earn.

Fact is, two parents need to work in today's America. And they're now working harder & harder for less & less. It's just the way the Slave Master wants it. Give em just a taste. Give em just enough to barely survive. Keep tossin em scraps.

working harder & harder for less & less
Oh please spare me the hammer and sickle mantra.
SO you've gone from Libertarian to full fledged flaming lib......

Just stating the current reality. Even two parents working full-time is a struggle for most. Americans are working more & more for less & less. Not good in a nation that boasts about being the wealthiest in the world. If both parents have to work to survive, something's wrong. We are moving backwards as a nation.

Hey, you may create and live in your own reality but do not expect anyone else to join you.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

Employing the services of day care is neglect?.....Excuse me but, you may go anally electrocute yourself.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

Self hating Caucasian....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

Some couples do have to work to survive, but in most cases, both work to get ahead in life.

 

[paulitician]

In my mother's era, MOST women did NOT have to work in order for their family's to live a good middle class, comfy life. My mother never worked, she raised my sister and me as her "job" and my father worked outside the home, joined the service at 17, without graduating high school, but then got his GED, then got his college degree paid for by the military...and then went on to work for the FAA after he retired from the air force and now in their old age, live a wealthy comfortable, life.....

It was not a rarity in my parent's era to have the comfy middle class life on simply the husband's salary, like it is today....

So yes, women like your mom and my mom had a choice to not work and didn't work for the most part, until their kids hit kindergarten at earliest....

This is simply NOT the case today.... today and yesteryear are whole different ball games in my opinion and can not be compared... as you have compared in your devil's advocate scenario....

Oh it surely can be done. One parent at home with the kids.
The problem started in the 80's when keeping up appearances became more important than family. Also the new hard line feminist movement declared that women could "have it all"...Career, family, kids......The two income family manifested itself because people felt compelled to pursue material things. Bigger house, third vehicle. high cost activities for their kids( sports, etc) two vacations instead of one. More expensive convenience foods. pay tv of the highest tier instead of what they could afford on one income. Smart phones instead of basic. And lastly two income families are a result of poor money management. People with zero spending discipline. Buying on credit instead of paying cash. Spending more than they earn.

Fact is, two parents need to work in today's America. And they're now working harder & harder for less & less. It's just the way the Slave Master wants it. Give em just a taste. Give em just enough to barely survive. Keep tossin em scraps.

working harder & harder for less & less
Oh please spare me the hammer and sickle mantra.
SO you've gone from Libertarian to full fledged flaming lib......

Just stating the current reality. Even two parents working full-time is a struggle for most. Americans are working more & more for less & less. Not good in a nation that boasts about being the wealthiest in the world. If both parents have to work to survive, something's wrong. We are moving backwards as a nation.

Hey, you may create and live in your own reality but do not expect anyone else to join you.

Two parents being forced to work to survive, isn't anything for the wealthiest nation on earth to boast about. Our nation is moving backwards. Who knows, maybe the 'good ole days' of child slave labor will be coming back? We know you greedy white Republican dudes would love that. Stay tuned.

 

[paulitician]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

Employing the services of day care is neglect?.....Excuse me but, you may go anally electrocute yourself.

Dropping your children off for numerous hours with strangers, is a very risky costly endeavor. But most parents have no choice these days. Too many American children are being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

So no one should be surprised that American children are such a mess. Their parents are slaves to the almighty dollar. Their parents just don't have time for them.

 

[paulitician]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

Self hating Caucasian....

Greedy hateful old white Republican.

 

[paulitician]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

Some couples do have to work to survive, but in most cases, both work to get ahead in life.

Some do, but most do it because they don't have a choice. The American Dream is quickly slipping away. It may already be gone.

.

 

[OldLady]

it is equal....when you can carry a child for 9 months, go through labor and delivery and have your child feed off your titties, YOU can have the time off for it.

So women aren't equal? Interesting. Liberals all my life said women were equal to men and now you say it is not true?

i'm sorry, I have no idea what you are rambling about....you are trying to compare apple and oranges in this situation....
period.

YOU know it, I know it, anyone with brains knows it...

No, it's is all equal, that is the way it is, no one gets special treatment.

What you are arguing is that if your coworker goes out for six weeks for an appendectomy, everyone should get six weeks off. That's just silliness in an effort to refute the Maternity Leave issue.

That is not what I'm arguing at all. I'm saying if you get 6 weeks, paid for maternity leave the man should have the same. He is a new father. She is a new mother. Are you saying the father serves no purpose other than sperm donor?

Of course not, but most of the places I know about grant a week of Family Leave time to new dad's, not six, because there is no physical recovery involved. And you're right, there is still societal bias that Mom will be the primary caregiver. I think one parent having that bonding time is the most we can hope for, though. That's going to be difficult enough to convince people of.

 

[OldLady]

Yes, treating our fellow human beings with respect and compassion is so damn outrageous. We don't need to become an enlightened compassionate species. We just need to continue hating each other and treating each other as badly as possible. So to hell with the babies and their parents. There's bleepin money to be made dammit!!. USA! USA! USA!

You're damned right. She needs to be clocking back in 24 hours after that baby is crowning.

If she works in an area with a soft carpet under her feet, I see no reason that she cant take a moment to pop the baby out and get right back to work.

The old Good Earth theory. Back to the fields in an hour.

 

[OldLady]

I find it interesting it's usually greedy old white Republican dudes whining about how messed up American children are these days. The reality is, both parents have to work to survive in today's America. And that means neglecting their children. They end up being raised by the Idiot Box, Internet, and worse.

Parents have to drop their children off in daycare for numerous hours to be raised by strangers. And sadly, many of these strangers are heinous child abusers. So no one should be surprised that American children are a mess these days. Too many American Parents are forced to neglect their children while out being slaves to the dollar. Our country can do better. After all, we are the richest nation on earth.

My parents both worked and I was never neglected; never knew any different because my mom went back to work when I was six months old. My son started daycare when he was eleven months and he was never neglected. He loved the social opportunities, being an only child. The heart of your argument is true, but you defeat your purpose by exaggerating the facts. In this day and age, most times both parents need to work and we do need to invest more in reliable daycare for our country's children. Preferably without a lot of interference by the government, though--the one time I was lucky enough to take my son to a federally funded daycare with a sliding fee scale, the operators admitted they never would have done it if they'd known the crushing amount of red tape and paperwork they would have to deal with.