Smoking banned in private homes.

[Anguille]

You're gonig to have nightmares about the Marlboro man.

I dreamt I kicked the Marlboro Man's butt and he hightailed it out of town on Joe Camel's back.

 

[Shogun]

business went up. bullshit.


Yea, business also tends to go up after people like you force women at strip bars to wear clothes on stage too! I REALLY hate to say it but I agree with that bitch ravir. I'd have fired you too.

Thank god I live in a "At Will" state.

 

[Anguille]

Why anyone smokes around kids is beyond me. PEople who smoke around children and pets need a good slap. I used to smoke around a dawg I had. The pup sat at my feet everywhere I went. He started wheezing. One of the reasons I quit.

You had the good sense to do the right thing. D. was a lucky pup when he adopted you.
Lots of people don't have the will to quit for themselves but do for the love of others. Then there are those that keep smoking around their kids, spouses, house guests, neighbors. They don't rely on their own morals and let laws dictate where they will smoke. When those laws are badly written, such as the one in the article which says shared walls are a reason to ban smoking inside a condo, they flip out. But were they to examine their own consciences and discover that their own morals and sense of fairness would restrict their smoking even further than the laws do there would be even more upset. Therefore they ignore their consciences and rant about laws and continue poisoning those closest to them.

 

[Anguille]

business went up. bullshit.


Yea, business also tends to go up after people like you force women at strip bars to wear clothes on stage too! I REALLY hate to say it but I agree with that bitch ravir. I'd have fired you too.

Thank god I live in a "At Will" state.

Both of you would have been escorted from the premises.

 

[Ravi]

Never worked in a bar when I was eighteen. You remember wrong. I started smoking when I was 18 and a waitress in a restaurant where everyone smoked all the time, except the cook. He was in misery. I quit when I was 23. I started tending bar about 2 years after I had quit smoking. The attacks only happened at work and began as a result of moving the smoking section next to the bar and also because my help was needed more often in a lounge where smokers could sit at the bar. They started to go away after the smoking policy got stricter in the restaurant and employees were no longer allowed to smoke on the property. Also, at this time I told the manager if he wanted my help in the lounge he would have to accept it that I would walk away from the bar if any lit up there. And I did just that. Eventually smoking was banned outright by law and I could breathe easy again.
8 hour plus shifts in a smokey bar sucked. Even my co-workers who smoked cheered when we went completely non smoking.

Okie dokie.

So you didn't have asthma when you smoked and you had attacks when you worked at this place. How do you know it was from the smoke and not some other factor...like a cat, etc?

Truthfully, I would have fired you.

It would be nice if you would refrain from further speaking such that I can refrain from pos-repping you for actually making sense.

I don't see any pos rep.

 

[Dis]

Okie dokie.

So you didn't have asthma when you smoked and you had attacks when you worked at this place. How do you know it was from the smoke and not some other factor...like a cat, etc?

Truthfully, I would have fired you.

It would be nice if you would refrain from further speaking such that I can refrain from pos-repping you for actually making sense.

I don't see any pos rep.

Because you actually did as requested, and ceased making sense. If you would have kept on making sense, I would have been forced to rep, and that would have been painful ffor both of us. Me having to give it, and you having to accept it.

It likely would have stuck in Anguille's craw, too, but that would have been a selfish bonus for me.

 

[Anguille]

the smoke travels through the duct work some of it is not isolated from other untis and through the outlets into the wall and ceiling cavities.....

It also escapes under doors, via open doors and open windows. A big problem in older apt buildings. A friend of mine has a new neighbor in his building whose smoke travels from the guy's apt to my friend's kitchen and bathroom even when both have their doors closed. The halls reek of it too. The scary thing is the guy is also a drunk living alone. I told my friend to get a fire extinguisher and make sure the smoke detectors are working.

 

[Ravi]

Okie dokie.

So you didn't have asthma when you smoked and you had attacks when you worked at this place. How do you know it was from the smoke and not some other factor...like a cat, etc?

Truthfully, I would have fired you.

My first asthma attack happened when I was a kid in the car with my dad who was smoking I only had one as a child. My father smoked but I was not around him as much as I was the smokers at my later jobs. I had another attack about a month before I quit smoking but the attacks continued. I was working at a new place but smoking was allowed there also. After taking medication for awhile and becoming a bartender in an environment that started out being not a very smoky one the attack stopped. They came back when, as I told you above, my exposure to smoke increased. No cats around in either workplace. The doctors in every instance told me it was the cigarette smoke that was making me ill. I suppose you're going to try to say it was something other than cigarette smoke that caused my asthma? Good luck. You're not a doctor or a respected medical organization either. I'll go with what my doctors told me, what I know from my own experience and what medical organizations all tell us. Secondhand smoke is a health hazard.

You wouldn't have been able to fire me, Ravi. The GM was behind me all the way. He even thanked me for letting the owner know I would call the health dept if he lit up another cigar in my presence. The GM then told him we were losing customers because he was defying the law and all fines levied against the establishment would have to be paid out of the owner's own wallet. In case you're wondering, the co owners agreed with the GM on this. No one smoked again on the property and business and tips went up.

I read your story again and the way you wrote it, smoking was still legal. So yes, I would have fired you for not doing your job. Of course if the owner didn't mind putting up with a crackpot employee that refused to do her job, that is his or her choice. I'd personally fire anyone that wouldn't do what they were hired to do.

Jeesh, doctors. Five doctors told me my father had inoperable cancer and were about to start chemo and radiation treatments when one doctor with a bit of common sense figured out that he didn't have cancer. But whether the smoke gave you asthma attacks is beside the point (though I have to point out that your previous smoking could have taken a while to wear off and it had nothing to do with second hand smoke).

 

[Dis]

Okie dokie.

So you didn't have asthma when you smoked and you had attacks when you worked at this place. How do you know it was from the smoke and not some other factor...like a cat, etc?

Truthfully, I would have fired you.

My first asthma attack happened when I was a kid in the car with my dad who was smoking I only had one as a child. My father smoked but I was not around him as much as I was the smokers at my later jobs. I had another attack about a month before I quit smoking but the attacks continued. I was working at a new place but smoking was allowed there also. After taking medication for awhile and becoming a bartender in an environment that started out being not a very smoky one the attack stopped. They came back when, as I told you above, my exposure to smoke increased. No cats around in either workplace. The doctors in every instance told me it was the cigarette smoke that was making me ill. I suppose you're going to try to say it was something other than cigarette smoke that caused my asthma? Good luck. You're not a doctor or a respected medical organization either. I'll go with what my doctors told me, what I know from my own experience and what medical organizations all tell us. Secondhand smoke is a health hazard.

You wouldn't have been able to fire me, Ravi. The GM was behind me all the way. He even thanked me for letting the owner know I would call the health dept if he lit up another cigar in my presence. The GM then told him we were losing customers because he was defying the law and all fines levied against the establishment would have to be paid out of the owner's own wallet. In case you're wondering, the co owners agreed with the GM on this. No one smoked again on the property and business and tips went up.

I read your story again and the way you wrote it, smoking was still legal. So yes, I would have fired you for not doing your job. Of course if the owner didn't mind putting up with a crackpot employee that refused to do her job, that is his or her choice. I'd personally fire anyone that wouldn't do what they were hired to do.

Jeesh, doctors. Five doctors told me my father had inoperable cancer and were about to start chemo and radiation treatments when one doctor with a bit of common sense figured out that he didn't have cancer. But whether the smoke gave you asthma attacks is beside the point (though I have to point out that your previous smoking could have taken a while to wear off and it had nothing to do with second hand smoke).

Exactly how long ago did MA outlaw smoking in bars and restaurants?

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Repped.

 

[Ravi]

For the record, I only smoke around dangerous dogs (like pits...they can never die too soon, imo) and busybodies.

 

[Anguille]

I don't know if there's been long term damage to my lungs but I wouldn't be surprised. Think how much worse for a bartender who has to put up with smoke all the time.

Long hours in an environment where several people are constantly smoking mean bar staff in smoking establishments are often exposed to more SMS than people who live with a smoker but who might not actually spending 40 hours a week or more in the presence of a smoker.

BTW, my mother died of lung cancer 13 years after she quit smoking. My father in law quit more than 10 years ago and he now has emphysema. My Aunt quit many years ago and also died of lung cancer.

I just don't think it's worth it. I think for those who love you, if you smoke, you should quit, if you don't, you shouldn't start. I also think parents who smoke in a home while they are raising children, or worse in a car while there are children in it, are causing harm to their children. My parents excuse was that they started smoking when doctors claimed it was healthy. It became a habit and it took them a long time to overcome that habit. I don't think any parents today have an excuse.

Smoking around kids or pets is IMO the most irresponsible thing that a smoker can do. Pets and children are defenseless and have no where to go to get away. Plus, kid's lungs are till developing and their growth stunted by frequent exposure to SMS.

 

[tigerbob]

Ah, back safely from the smoker stoning?

I have more 'stuff' ready. Let me know when is convenient.

Hi Bob. Yes, the stoning was great fun. I rescued the victim's cat and she is purring contentedly in my lap as we speak. Later on we rounded up a bunch of zombie smokers forming a tunnel of fire and brimstone outside the entrance to the subway, forced then to drag their own crosses and crucified them at the gates to the city. We lit fires fueled by cigarette butts collected by city street sweepers. and burned the most horrid ones at the stake. Sounds cruel but we did it in retaliation for the recent ritualistic live removal of a pink lung from a very unfortunate barmaid by the Aztec priest, Shogun.

I have to do some other stuff but shoot away with your twenty questions. I'll be around later. Why not post them all at once? Or is this some sort of debate game play where you try to maneuver me into saying something you that will sound like I actually think smokers should smoke anywhere they please?

Sigh. Do you really imagine that's what I'm doing or are you making a joke? I'm just setting out what I do and do not believe to see how far you agree and where you start to disagree. So far you've agreed with me. Perhaps this is worrying you. I guess in view of your earlier post to me...

Cigarette smoke is linked to cancer, emphysema, heart disease, allergies, etc. The fact that most people are so offended by it to the point of wanting laws passed so they won't have to put up with it anymore ought to show that it's a serious problem.

I beginning to think you people who keep dancing around the fact that just about every medical association in the world has condemned cigarette smoke as a major health hazard must have been taking lessons from Holocaust deniers on how to twist things around so you can deny second hand smoke causes harm.

the fact that I agree with you in the vast majority of areas may surprise you. Or not.

Either way, I spent a while last night setting out my thoughts.

To recap, you've agreed with points 1, 2 and 3 (I think you agreed with 3 - you added some additional points which I didn't think contradicted what I'd said so far - feel free to correct me)....

1. Primary smoking (i.e. someone lighting a cigarette, drawing on it, inhaling it and exhaling), if done repeatedly over a number of years, is highly likely to cause the smoker serious health defects including but not limited to several kinds of cancer, bronchitis, heart disease, stroke and emphysema.
2. While not offensive to all non smokers, the smell of tobacco smoke to the majority of non smokers varies between simply unpleasant to practically unbearable. The smell of tobacco gets into clothes, hair and furniture.
3. Non smokers have a right to be able to choose and enjoy a smoke free atmosphere in public. This right overrides the 'perceived right' of smokers to be able to smoke anywhere they want.

Here's my belief number 4...

4. The tobacco industry has tried to dispute claims about the toxicity of Secondary Tobacco Smoke (STS). Like any entity with a vested interest, their representations should be viewed with suspicion.

 

[Anguille]

Years ago, when I was pregant with my first child, my husband and I took and airplane trip. As soon as we got off, I found a seat where there was no one else in the area and sat to try and keep down my lunch, I was so sick from the airplane ride. A woman sat down in the seat right next to me, keep in mind, there were another 20 or so seats that were empty all around me, and immediately lit up her cigarette. I felt so sick I asked her to please move, or put it out, she just smiled and said "make me". To this day, I wish I'd emptied my lunch in her lap instead of crawling away to another seat myself.

Guess hind sight is always 20/20.

Thankfully people are more considerate these days. I always ask, in a very non accusatory tone, for people to please take their cigarette away from me and so far no one has refused me. A few have scowled and moved away but some put it right out and most apologize.

I think probably that woman has quit smoking by now. Maybe the memory of her nasty behavior to you haunted her and the next time a pregnant woman was nearby she was better behaved.

 

[KittenKoder]

the non smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the smoker's insistence on drugging him/herself in a manner which will drug all those within breathing distance.

The smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the non-smokers insistence on staying where he's obviously not comfortable.

If you're in a public place where smoking is permitted, man the fuck up and deal. Or leave.

what about people with boom boxes? our thinking about how we view smoking is changing as the science comes in unadulterated by the lying under oath before the US Congress, testimony of Tobacco's Chief Executives.

Smoking in public is now viewed as a health issue for everyone around the smoker. Science.

I am a former 3 packs a day smoker, who has sympathy for smokers. But I knew towards the end that I was not only offending others but putting them at risk. And make no mistake about it...no matter how small---it was still a risk they did not choose.

However the numbers how so no connection between smoking and negative health issues, though there is a positive effect of nicotine. This is why I can't use health as my reason for wanting to stop, the people who are saying it's bad for you or worse that second hand smoke is bad, are lying under oath jut as much if not more. There are still far worse drugs that are legal with real and hard evidence which we see every day proving that they are harmful to health and society, but no one ever speaks out against them, the last time they tried look what happened. Just because the tobacco companies lied does not mean everyone against them can lie to.

 

[Dis]

The smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the non-smokers insistence on staying where he's obviously not comfortable.

If you're in a public place where smoking is permitted, man the fuck up and deal. Or leave.

what about people with boom boxes? our thinking about how we view smoking is changing as the science comes in unadulterated by the lying under oath before the US Congress, testimony of Tobacco's Chief Executives.

Smoking in public is now viewed as a health issue for everyone around the smoker. Science.

I am a former 3 packs a day smoker, who has sympathy for smokers. But I knew towards the end that I was not only offending others but putting them at risk. And make no mistake about it...no matter how small---it was still a risk they did not choose.

However the numbers how so no connection between smoking and negative health issues, though there is a positive effect of nicotine. This is why I can't use health as my reason for wanting to stop, the people who are saying it's bad for you or worse that second hand smoke is bad, are lying under oath jut as much if not more. There are still far worse drugs that are legal with real and hard evidence which we see every day proving that they are harmful to health and society, but no one ever speaks out against them, the last time they tried look what happened. Just because the tobacco companies lied does not mean everyone against them can lie to.

No known health issues with smoking? Is that what you tried to say?

Seriously? Ok.. You gotta put that keyboard down, and come up for air sometime.

 

[KittenKoder]

what about people with boom boxes? our thinking about how we view smoking is changing as the science comes in unadulterated by the lying under oath before the US Congress, testimony of Tobacco's Chief Executives.

Smoking in public is now viewed as a health issue for everyone around the smoker. Science.

I am a former 3 packs a day smoker, who has sympathy for smokers. But I knew towards the end that I was not only offending others but putting them at risk. And make no mistake about it...no matter how small---it was still a risk they did not choose.

However the numbers how so no connection between smoking and negative health issues, though there is a positive effect of nicotine. This is why I can't use health as my reason for wanting to stop, the people who are saying it's bad for you or worse that second hand smoke is bad, are lying under oath jut as much if not more. There are still far worse drugs that are legal with real and hard evidence which we see every day proving that they are harmful to health and society, but no one ever speaks out against them, the last time they tried look what happened. Just because the tobacco companies lied does not mean everyone against them can lie to.

No known health issues with smoking? Is that what you tried to say?

Seriously? Ok.. You gotta put that keyboard down, and come up for air sometime.

They have been proven to have no connection time and again, by real doctors looking for real solutions to the problems because some of them actually want to help instead of get attention or ill gotten gains (though they are still greedy they just want it for the right reasons). Seriously, the number of smokers is down in may areas, hell in Seattle we are down 15% during the last 5 years, but the cases of lung cancer are still increasing. All other effects that had been blamed on smoking they are finding have other environmental causes, so far there is NO hard evidence, just numbers which are easily manipulated. There is one chemical in smokes that causes serious problems in high dosages, which they found that cigarettes do not come close to these doses required even for the direct smoker, however there is one thing that does create even higher dosages but is becoming more common. Everything dangerous in cigarette smoke besides the nicotine also comes out of cars ... but cars put out tons each auto per day while a smoker will put out only a few ounces in a year. A ton of gaseous chemicals and soot ... that's a LOT, a few ounces ... just a grain of sand.

 

[Anguille]

assholes come in all shapes and sizes--smokers and non.

True, still wish I'd thrown up on her.

heh!! I do too. LOL!

 

[Anguille]

You can get over an addiction if you have $127 a month for a prescription to help you quit, that your insurance company won't cover any portion of the cost of. I smoked for almost 30 years, and at that point, 30 years is no different than 50 years...

Amazingly enough, it really DOES get rid of those evil cravings, and you simply need to find something else to do with your hands...

I paid $0.00 for my prescription of good old fashioned will power when I quit. I didn't whine to anyone about insurance either, though I do think insurance should pay the difference between what people where paying for cigs and the cost of medication if they are too weak to quit on their own. How much was your habit costing you?

 

[Dis]

You can get over an addiction if you have $127 a month for a prescription to help you quit, that your insurance company won't cover any portion of the cost of. I smoked for almost 30 years, and at that point, 30 years is no different than 50 years...

Amazingly enough, it really DOES get rid of those evil cravings, and you simply need to find something else to do with your hands...

I paid $0.00 for my prescription of good old fashioned will power when I quit. I didn't whine to anyone about insurance either, though I do think insurance should pay the difference between what people where paying for cigs and the cost of medication if they are too weak to quit on their own. How much was your habit costing you?

This from the little candy-ass that smoked for a whopping 5 years, and has since spent more time whining about the world not catering to what she views and right/wrong? You didn't smoke long enough TO develop an actual addiction.

Puleeze.

 

[Anguille]

Okie dokie.

So you didn't have asthma when you smoked and you had attacks when you worked at this place. How do you know it was from the smoke and not some other factor...like a cat, etc?

Truthfully, I would have fired you.

My first asthma attack happened when I was a kid in the car with my dad who was smoking I only had one as a child. My father smoked but I was not around him as much as I was the smokers at my later jobs. I had another attack about a month before I quit smoking but the attacks continued. I was working at a new place but smoking was allowed there also. After taking medication for awhile and becoming a bartender in an environment that started out being not a very smoky one the attack stopped. They came back when, as I told you above, my exposure to smoke increased. No cats around in either workplace. The doctors in every instance told me it was the cigarette smoke that was making me ill. I suppose you're going to try to say it was something other than cigarette smoke that caused my asthma? Good luck. You're not a doctor or a respected medical organization either. I'll go with what my doctors told me, what I know from my own experience and what medical organizations all tell us. Secondhand smoke is a health hazard.

You wouldn't have been able to fire me, Ravi. The GM was behind me all the way. He even thanked me for letting the owner know I would call the health dept if he lit up another cigar in my presence. The GM then told him we were losing customers because he was defying the law and all fines levied against the establishment would have to be paid out of the owner's own wallet. In case you're wondering, the co owners agreed with the GM on this. No one smoked again on the property and business and tips went up.

I read your story again and the way you wrote it, smoking was still legal. So yes, I would have fired you for not doing your job. Of course if the owner didn't mind putting up with a crackpot employee that refused to do her job, that is his or her choice. I'd personally fire anyone that wouldn't do what they were hired to do.

Your memory and reading comprehension continues to fail you. probably due to nicotine deprivation as you desperately grasp at straws.
It was not my job to tend bar in the lounge, I did it as a favor to the manager of that dept who was having trouble because his employees, especially the smoking ones, were constantly out sick with bronchitis. After a particular nasty smoker brought me very close to spraying his face with soda water, I told the manager I would only be able to help him when the bar was empty of smokers. That was the deal. He had no problem with that because I was up front and within my rights to refuse to do anything outside my job description. I experienced no retaliation for making a stand against having to put up smoke. Not even from the owner when I stated I intended to call the health dept if I smelled his smoke again. He knew I was right. Plus I held the secret recipe to his favorite toddy and his cigar problem wasn't worth the chance I's stop making it.

Jeesh, doctors. Five doctors told me my father had inoperable cancer and were about to start chemo and radiation treatments when one doctor with a bit of common sense figured out that he didn't have cancer. But whether the smoke gave you asthma attacks is beside the point (though I have to point out that your previous smoking could have taken a while to wear off and it had nothing to do with second hand smoke).

Funny, the doctor's didn't think so. Also, I did not smoke yet when I was in the car with my smoking father as a child. I knew you'd try to find a way to say SMS didn't cause me any harm.
Why all the trouble to try and deny SMS causes serious problems to so many people?

Please remove the mention of where I live. I've never revealed that on this board. You can PM me if you want about your question.