Smoking banned in private homes.

[Anguille]

1. Primary smoking (i.e. someone lighting a cigarette, drawing on it, inhaling it and exhaling), if done repeatedly over a number of years, is highly likely to cause the smoker serious health defects including but not limited to several kinds of cancer, bronchitis, heart disease, stroke and emphysema.

I agree.

 

[dilloduck]

It you can keep your responses as short as my points (i.e. a couple of sentences or so) then we will get through this quickly and be able to pin down what our differences are. How does that sound? If OK, here's my first belief (don't worry, I'll get to the more contentious ones as we move along).

I can't stay online much longer but wil get back to you tomorrow if this goes on for longer than I can tonight.

You're gonig to have nightmares about the Marlboro man.

 

[tigerbob]

It you can keep your responses as short as my points (i.e. a couple of sentences or so) then we will get through this quickly and be able to pin down what our differences are. How does that sound? If OK, here's my first belief (don't worry, I'll get to the more contentious ones as we move along).

I can't stay online much longer but wil get back to you tomorrow if this goes on for longer than I can tonight.

OK.

#2. While not offensive to all non smokers, the smell of tobacco smoke to the majority of non smokers varies between simply unpleasant to practically unbearable. The smell of tobacco gets into clothes, hair and furniture.

 

[Anguille]

#2. While not offensive to all non smokers, the smell of tobacco smoke to the majority of non smokers varies between simply unpleasant to practically unbearable. The smell of tobacco gets into clothes, hair and furniture.

yes

 

[Anguille]

While waiting for bob to post his next question I would like to ask what goes through smoker's heads as they are puffing away in the presence of someone who seems to be made uncomfortable by your smoke or even if that person is trying to be polite and pretending not to mind the smoke, what goes through your minds as you puff away knowing you are very likely causing that person health problems as well as stinking up their clothes?

 

[tigerbob]

#2. While not offensive to all non smokers, the smell of tobacco smoke to the majority of non smokers varies between simply unpleasant to practically unbearable. The smell of tobacco gets into clothes, hair and furniture.

yes

#3. Non smokers have a right to be able to choose and enjoy a smoke free atmosphere in public. This right overrides the 'perceived right' of smokers to be able to smoke anywhere they want.

 

[Anguille]

#2. While not offensive to all non smokers, the smell of tobacco smoke to the majority of non smokers varies between simply unpleasant to practically unbearable. The smell of tobacco gets into clothes, hair and furniture.

yes

#3. Non smokers have a right to be able to choose and enjoy a smoke free atmosphere in public. This right overrides the 'perceived right' of smokers to be able to smoke anywhere they want.

yes.
Smokers can put out their cigarettes. It won't kill them to do so. But the people around them can't stop breathing and breathing in the smoker's smoke may end up killing them, causing them harm or at the very least annoying them and damaging their clothing.

Smokers have other choices which allow them to get their nicotine fix in public places without affecting those near him. The only choice a non smoker has is to leave if a smoker lights up. But since it is a public place, the non smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the smoker's insistence on drugging him/herself in a manner which will drug all those within breathing distance.

Good night, bob. Got to go to bed now. Early day tomorrow. A non smoking activist group is planning a public crucifixion of some particularly obnoxious smokers and I said I'd help out.

 

[Dis]

While waiting for bob to post his next question I would like to ask what goes through smoker's heads as they are puffing away in the presence of someone who seems to be made uncomfortable by your smoke or even if that person is trying to be polite and pretending not to mind the smoke, what goes through your minds as you puff away knowing you are very likely causing that person health problems as well as stinking up their clothes?

If you're that offended, leave. Nobody has your feet stapled to the floor. If you haven't left yet, it really doesn't bother you that much, and obviously, you're just looking for attention.

 

[Dis]

the non smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the smoker's insistence on drugging him/herself in a manner which will drug all those within breathing distance.

The smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the non-smokers insistence on staying where he's obviously not comfortable.

If you're in a public place where smoking is permitted, man the fuck up and deal. Or leave.

 

[tigerbob]

yes

#3. Non smokers have a right to be able to choose and enjoy a smoke free atmosphere in public. This right overrides the 'perceived right' of smokers to be able to smoke anywhere they want.

yes.
Smokers can put out their cigarettes. It won't kill them to do so. But the people around them can't stop breathing and breathing in the smoker's smoke may end up killing them, causing them harm or at the very least annoying them and damaging their clothing.

Smokers have other choices which allow them to get their nicotine fix in public places without affecting those near him. The only choice a non smoker has is to leave if a smoker lights up. But since it is a public place, the non smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the smoker's insistence on drugging him/herself in a manner which will drug all those within breathing distance.

Good night, bob. Got to go to bed now. Early day tomorrow. A non smoking activist group is planning a public crucifixion of some particularly obnoxious smokers and I said I'd help out.

Ok. I'll just take that last one as a "Yes" (if that's OK with you) so we can stick to the ground rules. I'll spend a bit of time now (while you get some sleep) pulling together a few more assertions. Nice to see we are in agreement so far.

 

[michiganFats]

While waiting for bob to post his next question I would like to ask what goes through smoker's heads as they are puffing away in the presence of someone who seems to be made uncomfortable by your smoke or even if that person is trying to be polite and pretending not to mind the smoke, what goes through your minds as you puff away knowing you are very likely causing that person health problems as well as stinking up their clothes?

You know what goes through my head? If that is happening near me, then you are in my home, my car, or in a designated smoking area. So, I don't really care what you think.

 

[Againsheila]

Agree, but whether it causes long term harm or is just short term unpleasant is the question, for me anyway.

Would death from an asthma attack qualify as long term harm?

Cigarette smoke is linked to cancer, emphysema, heart disease, allergies, etc. The fact that most people are so offended by it to the point of wanting laws passed so they won't have to put up with it anymore ought to show that it's a serious problem.

I beginning to think you people who keep dancing around the fact that just about every medical association in the world has condemned cigarette smoke as a major health hazard must have been taking lessons from Holocaust deniers on how to twist things around so you can deny second hand smoke causes harm.

You all whine and cry about your "right" to poison the air everyone breathes. You complain that non smokers are being mean to you. Whhaaaaa! You all sound like some people on this board that whine that white men are being persecuted in this country.

There you go again with your facetious red herrings.

That wasn't the point I was discussing with someone other than you. If you want to jump into a conversation, try and stick to the point, which was...

Is a non smoking bartender affected in any long term way by exposure to second hand smoke?

I was saying that I do not find the evidence convincing. I wasn't saying that it was not true, just that in my mind there was room for doubt. Instantly, that is cause for you to become rabid. You don't provide anything to convince me that your view is correct. You just start screaming.

Oh, and if you want to talk about "holocaust deniers" than maybe it would be appropriate for you to stop behaving like a nazi.

Years ago, I read a study done in Japan that proved non-smoking women who lived with men who smoked had a much higher rate of lung cancer and other lung diseases that non-smoking women who lived with non-smoking men.

For myself, when I was young my parents were chain smokers. I suffered from bronchitis every winter. It stopped when I moved out on my own and started again when I worked next to a chain smoker. That year it got so bad that I had to take shots to get rid of it. I ended up changing jobs as soon as I could.

I don't know if there's been long term damage to my lungs but I wouldn't be surprised. Think how much worse for a bartender who has to put up with smoke all the time.

BTW, my mother died of lung cancer 13 years after she quit smoking. My father in law quit more than 10 years ago and he now has emphysema. My Aunt quit many years ago and also died of lung cancer.

I just don't think it's worth it. I think for those who love you, if you smoke, you should quit, if you don't, you shouldn't start. I also think parents who smoke in a home while they are raising children, or worse in a car while there are children in it, are causing harm to their children. My parents excuse was that they started smoking when doctors claimed it was healthy. It became a habit and it took them a long time to overcome that habit. I don't think any parents today have an excuse.

 

[Againsheila]

While waiting for bob to post his next question I would like to ask what goes through smoker's heads as they are puffing away in the presence of someone who seems to be made uncomfortable by your smoke or even if that person is trying to be polite and pretending not to mind the smoke, what goes through your minds as you puff away knowing you are very likely causing that person health problems as well as stinking up their clothes?

You know what goes through my head? If that is happening near me, then you are in my home, my car, or in a designated smoking area. So, I don't really care what you think.

Years ago, when I was pregant with my first child, my husband and I took and airplane trip. As soon as we got off, I found a seat where there was no one else in the area and sat to try and keep down my lunch, I was so sick from the airplane ride. A woman sat down in the seat right next to me, keep in mind, there were another 20 or so seats that were empty all around me, and immediately lit up her cigarette. I felt so sick I asked her to please move, or put it out, she just smiled and said "make me". To this day, I wish I'd emptied my lunch in her lap instead of crawling away to another seat myself.

Guess hind sight is always 20/20.

 

[michiganFats]

Againsheila, You should have. I've never been on a plane that had a smoking area, and even if I had been, I wouldn't have lit up by a pregnant woman.

Last year a co-worker wanted to introduce his pregnant wife to some of us on break. We were all in the designated smoking area, which was behind the building and 20 yards removed from the door. Instead of waiting for us to finish our smokes, he brought his wife around back to the designated smoking area, then demanded that we put out our cigarettes. When we didn't, he accused us of attempted manslaughter. Those are the kind of wackos I object to.

I'm not old enough to remember a time when people could just light up wherever and whenever. A smoking area, in my experience, has always been a place that is far removed from everyone else. In other words, if you are there then you wanted to be there. However, my house and my car are mine. I am King. And the King couldn't care any less what anyone else thinks about how He runs His Castle.

 

[Ravi]

When people were allowed to smoke on planes, planes had smoking areas. Why sit in the smoking area?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

the non smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the smoker's insistence on drugging him/herself in a manner which will drug all those within breathing distance.

The smoker should not be denied his right to be there because of the non-smokers insistence on staying where he's obviously not comfortable.

If you're in a public place where smoking is permitted, man the fuck up and deal. Or leave.

what about people with boom boxes? our thinking about how we view smoking is changing as the science comes in unadulterated by the lying under oath before the US Congress, testimony of Tobacco's Chief Executives.

Smoking in public is now viewed as a health issue for everyone around the smoker. Science.

I am a former 3 packs a day smoker, who has sympathy for smokers. But I knew towards the end that I was not only offending others but putting them at risk. And make no mistake about it...no matter how small---it was still a risk they did not choose.

 

[Shogun]

Anguille, and the rest of you pink lunger bitches, should choose a bar to drink at other than Smokey's Bastion of Tobacco & Beer. No one forces you to breathe air in a building you personally CHOOSE to avoid entering.


HEALTH ISSUE? About a location whose very commerce is SELLING ALCOHOL TO TANGIBLE, POTENTIAL DRUNK DRIVERS? Who actually KILL more people than bullshit PROJECTED statistics?




THATS rich. Bray on about HEALTH Hazards when A) no one forces your bitch ass into a smokey bar, B) we have never had a cancer epidemic among bartenders and wait staff. EVER. and C) you pussy bitches will kill more REAL people this year while driving home than a smoker will EVER kill.


Hell, even non-smokers get lung cancer... Do sober people drive drunk and kill a family with a double vision burst of fire and steel on the highway? I mean, CLEARLY smelling like smoke is... uh.. as horrible as some kids face scraping off on the pavement after an engine block crushes his body while the drunk driver was limber enough to walk away uninjured!

 

[Againsheila]

Againsheila, You should have. I've never been on a plane that had a smoking area, and even if I had been, I wouldn't have lit up by a pregnant woman.

Last year a co-worker wanted to introduce his pregnant wife to some of us on break. We were all in the designated smoking area, which was behind the building and 20 yards removed from the door. Instead of waiting for us to finish our smokes, he brought his wife around back to the designated smoking area, then demanded that we put out our cigarettes. When we didn't, he accused us of attempted manslaughter. Those are the kind of wackos I object to.

I'm not old enough to remember a time when people could just light up wherever and whenever. A smoking area, in my experience, has always been a place that is far removed from everyone else. In other words, if you are there then you wanted to be there. However, my house and my car are mine. I am King. And the King couldn't care any less what anyone else thinks about how He runs His Castle.

I agree with you on being King of your Castle, however, I do believe that if you have children, you shouldn't be smoking around them, especially in a car where they can't escape.

BTW, I wasn't on the plane, it was after I got off plane, I guess back then you could smoke anywhere in the airport. What really got me is all those empty seats and she chose to sit right next to me.

 

[dilloduck]

Againsheila, You should have. I've never been on a plane that had a smoking area, and even if I had been, I wouldn't have lit up by a pregnant woman.

Last year a co-worker wanted to introduce his pregnant wife to some of us on break. We were all in the designated smoking area, which was behind the building and 20 yards removed from the door. Instead of waiting for us to finish our smokes, he brought his wife around back to the designated smoking area, then demanded that we put out our cigarettes. When we didn't, he accused us of attempted manslaughter. Those are the kind of wackos I object to.

I'm not old enough to remember a time when people could just light up wherever and whenever. A smoking area, in my experience, has always been a place that is far removed from everyone else. In other words, if you are there then you wanted to be there. However, my house and my car are mine. I am King. And the King couldn't care any less what anyone else thinks about how He runs His Castle.

I agree with you on being King of your Castle, however, I do believe that if you have children, you shouldn't be smoking around them, especially in a car where they can't escape.

BTW, I wasn't on the plane, it was after I got off plane, I guess back then you could smoke anywhere in the airport. What really got me is all those empty seats and she chose to sit right next to me.

assholes come in all shapes and sizes--smokers and non.

 

[Againsheila]

Againsheila, You should have. I've never been on a plane that had a smoking area, and even if I had been, I wouldn't have lit up by a pregnant woman.

Last year a co-worker wanted to introduce his pregnant wife to some of us on break. We were all in the designated smoking area, which was behind the building and 20 yards removed from the door. Instead of waiting for us to finish our smokes, he brought his wife around back to the designated smoking area, then demanded that we put out our cigarettes. When we didn't, he accused us of attempted manslaughter. Those are the kind of wackos I object to.

I'm not old enough to remember a time when people could just light up wherever and whenever. A smoking area, in my experience, has always been a place that is far removed from everyone else. In other words, if you are there then you wanted to be there. However, my house and my car are mine. I am King. And the King couldn't care any less what anyone else thinks about how He runs His Castle.

I agree with you on being King of your Castle, however, I do believe that if you have children, you shouldn't be smoking around them, especially in a car where they can't escape.

BTW, I wasn't on the plane, it was after I got off plane, I guess back then you could smoke anywhere in the airport. What really got me is all those empty seats and she chose to sit right next to me.

assholes come in all shapes and sizes--smokers and non.

True, still wish I'd thrown up on her.