Smoking Bans

[Skull Pilot]

Skull, you seem to have a hard time understanding that choice runs both ways. As a non smoker I have the choice to make that I and those other non smokers that choose not to breath in second hand carcinogens, have a choice to bitch and moan that we do not want to breath in second hand cig smoke.

And you have the choice not to patronize businesses that allow smoking. Don't you?

Seeing as how the addicted cigarette smokers will not choose to stop smoking around those it offends, then the choice is to appeal to the powers that be to enact a law that forbids smoking in businesses and government building.

We disagree and always will. WHat a business owner does on his own property is not your business since you can easily avoid any business that allows behavior that offend your sensibilities.

If cigarette smokers could choose to abstain when around non smokers, no problem.

You can choose not to enter a place that allows smoking.

But when cigarette smokes wage chemical warfare on me, that's not happening.

Let them cigarette smokers choose whatever they want. Just don't choose to smoke in certain places where non smokers have every right to be; workplaces, shopping places and dining/entertainment.

If it is plainly posted why can't you avoid restaurants that allow smoking and take your business elsewhere.

Now that's that freedom of being in the majority and choosing to use that power to stop the abuses being placed upon non smokers by smokers.

In other words; you smokers, stick it up your ass. You ain't going to be allowed to smoke where ever you want.

And we devolve to more whining.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do you take hypotheticals personally? "You" can and does mean "a given person". We don't have a dedicated word for it in English; what you're trying to do is dissassociate yourself from your own point so that you don't have the responsibility for it.

Now why does any of this require "telling a privately owned business" anything? Why not put the onus on the smoker?

You're not you're putting the onus on the business owners.

If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place what business is it of yours? Are you utterly incapable of finding s business that will still not allow smoking?

If there was freedom some people would allow smoking and some wouldn't just like some places serve pizza and some don't.

My point flew completey over your skull like a smoke ring.

It doesn't have to be a restriction on the business; make it a restriction on the smoker. If you and I work side by side in the same work space, you (personally) do not have the right to put your smoke in my lungs. Deal?

It IS a restriction on the business not the smoker.

If someone lights up in a restaurant it's the business owner who will be fined.

And you have the right to patronize businesses that don't allow smoking and to avoid those that do.

 

[zeke]

You know what skull? Your opinions suck about what others can and can't do. And thank God that your opinions suck so bad that people with a lot more common sense than you have decided that some activities (smoking for instance or loud loud music) have enough negative consequences that they will not be tolerated in a public setting.

Sucks to be you eh?

But to carry your obtuseness to a higher degree. Remember when we were discussing the loud music next door to your house. You know that you don't have to go home when the party is happening. Or you could always move to another house to avoid the party and the loud music.

Now I know you will have some excuse as to why you should be able to stop the loud music from disturbing you. But I call bullshit. If it is good enough for you to carry on how people don't have to choose a smoking place of business or shop or stop at a smokers shop, well Skull that exact same logic should apply to you.

Why doesn't it apply to where you choose to live? Don't like the loud music? Move elsewhere.

I bet that makes a lot of sense to you. Right? And that is what YOU would do. Move on to another place where the neighbor doesn't party all night with loud loud music. LMAO.

 

[rightwinger]

You're not you're putting the onus on the business owners.

If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place what business is it of yours? Are you utterly incapable of finding s business that will still not allow smoking?

If there was freedom some people would allow smoking and some wouldn't just like some places serve pizza and some don't.

My point flew completey over your skull like a smoke ring.

It doesn't have to be a restriction on the business; make it a restriction on the smoker. If you and I work side by side in the same work space, you (personally) do not have the right to put your smoke in my lungs. Deal?

It IS a restriction on the business not the smoker.

If someone lights up in a restaurant it's the business owner who will be fined.

And you have the right to patronize businesses that don't allow smoking and to avoid those that do.

And is a restriction on all business owners......a level playing field

A business doesn't have to decide which customers to offend. Should you chase away the smokers? Or allow smokers and chase away no smokers who dont like the stench?

This way you shrug to smokers and blame the evil nanny state

 

[Pogo]

You're not you're putting the onus on the business owners.

If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place what business is it of yours? Are you utterly incapable of finding s business that will still not allow smoking?

If there was freedom some people would allow smoking and some wouldn't just like some places serve pizza and some don't.

My point flew completey over your skull like a smoke ring.

It doesn't have to be a restriction on the business; make it a restriction on the smoker. If you and I work side by side in the same work space, you (personally) do not have the right to put your smoke in my lungs. Deal?

It IS a restriction on the business not the smoker.

If someone lights up in a restaurant it's the business owner who will be fined.

See if you can hire a safecracker to break through that mind of yours that's sealed up like a vault. I said if the responsibility is on the smoker. Not the bidness. Put your script down and read that.

Imagine something along the lines of what this guy said:

Smoking bans have nothing to do with labor laws.

Oh wait -- that was you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You know what skull? Your opinions suck about what others can and can't do. And thank God that your opinions suck so bad that people with a lot more common sense than you have decided that some activities (smoking for instance or loud loud music) have enough negative consequences that they will not be tolerated in a public setting.

Sucks to be you eh?

But to carry your obtuseness to a higher degree. Remember when we were discussing the loud music next door to your house. You know that you don't have to go home when the party is happening. Or you could always move to another house to avoid the party and the loud music.

Now I know you will have some excuse as to why you should be able to stop the loud music from disturbing you. But I call bullshit. If it is good enough for you to carry on how people don't have to choose a smoking place of business or shop or stop at a smokers shop, well Skull that exact same logic should apply to you.

Why doesn't it apply to where you choose to live? Don't like the loud music? Move elsewhere.

I bet that makes a lot of sense to you. Right? And that is what YOU would do. Move on to another place where the neighbor doesn't party all night with loud loud music. LMAO.

Loud music is tolerated in many public settings.

Have you never heard of concerts or music clubs you idiot?

And stop belaboring that piss poor analogy of business and residential areas. The two are distinctly different.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My point flew completey over your skull like a smoke ring.

It doesn't have to be a restriction on the business; make it a restriction on the smoker. If you and I work side by side in the same work space, you (personally) do not have the right to put your smoke in my lungs. Deal?

It IS a restriction on the business not the smoker.

If someone lights up in a restaurant it's the business owner who will be fined.

And you have the right to patronize businesses that don't allow smoking and to avoid those that do.

And is a restriction on all business owners......a level playing field

A business doesn't have to decide which customers to offend. Should you chase away the smokers? Or allow smokers and chase away no smokers who dont like the stench?

This way you shrug to smokers and blame the evil nanny state

If it's your business you can do whatever the fuck you want.

If you chase customers away then so be it. Why do you give a flying fuck if a business chases customers away?

What does it matter if a few businesses allow smoking? They'll have a bar full of people puffing way while you are drinking your wine coolers like a good little girl at a bar that doesn't allow smoking.

 

[thereisnospoon]

After watching a story on the news about banning smoking in public areas- including businesses- forcibly, I realized how wrong that is. On government property- ie streets and government buildings like courthouses- the government should have the ability to ban it. But for privately owned businesses, they should be given the ability to choose. If they ban smoking, smokers can simply go elsewhere. If smoking is allowed, and offends people, said customers can use their competitors instead. As such, a business owner can then allow/disallow smoking if it would help their business. Government doesn't have a right to mandate businesses to ban something, even if it is for "the public's safety". Even that could be disproved by showing that smoking inside a building where everyone is okay with it does not harm those who actually care. And enviromentalists will now proceed to ask about factories pumping pollutants into the atmosphere and try to apply my logic to that. That is a different case, simply because potentially harmful pollutants are being put directly into the atmosphere, whereas smoking in a restaurant hasn't killed anyone walking in the street outside, as far as I know.

Nonsense.

There's no 'right' to smoke.

It's a legal product.
So name your favorite thing to do that affects the health of others...
Do you operate an automobile? Good. Do you believe you have a "right to drive it"?

 

[rightwinger]

It IS a restriction on the business not the smoker.

If someone lights up in a restaurant it's the business owner who will be fined.

And you have the right to patronize businesses that don't allow smoking and to avoid those that do.

And is a restriction on all business owners......a level playing field

A business doesn't have to decide which customers to offend. Should you chase away the smokers? Or allow smokers and chase away no smokers who dont like the stench?

This way you shrug to smokers and blame the evil nanny state

If it's your business you can do whatever the fuck you want.

If you chase customers away then so be it. Why do you give a flying fuck if a business chases customers away?

What does it matter if a few businesses allow smoking? They'll have a bar full of people puffing way while you are drinking your wine coolers like a good little girl at a bar that doesn't allow smoking.

You cannot do whatever the fuck you want with your business

Remember ......We do not serve negroes?

 

[Skull Pilot]

And is a restriction on all business owners......a level playing field

A business doesn't have to decide which customers to offend. Should you chase away the smokers? Or allow smokers and chase away no smokers who dont like the stench?

This way you shrug to smokers and blame the evil nanny state

If it's your business you can do whatever the fuck you want.

If you chase customers away then so be it. Why do you give a flying fuck if a business chases customers away?

What does it matter if a few businesses allow smoking? They'll have a bar full of people puffing way while you are drinking your wine coolers like a good little girl at a bar that doesn't allow smoking.

You cannot do whatever the fuck you want with your business

Remember ......We do not serve negroes?

Unlike you I have no problem with people choosing who is allowed in their establishments.

If some bigot is stupid enough to turn away a paying customer simply because of their skin color I would be happy to serve that person in my business.

In fact with today's sentiments I don't think a business that didn't serve blacks wouldn't last very long. You should want that a bigot be put out of business.

Just like I don't think with today's sentiments that if smoking bans were relaxed that all businesses would allow it.

Some would sure but so what? You don't have to go there and you should like that too because then smokers would congregate where they could smoke and you wouldn't have to be near them or walk through a gauntlet of smokers on the way in and out of an establishment.

 

[Esmeralda]

I'm a former smoker and believe that cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc., all forms of tobacco, including chewing, should be banned around the world, as well as anything that simulates smoking from candy ciggies to E-cigs.

It's like taking poison, thinking about taking poison, simulating taking poison, pretending to take poison, etc. Tobacco is poison. It's just that simple.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm a former smoker and believe that cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc., all forms of tobacco, including chewing, should be banned around the world, as well as anything that simulates smoking from candy ciggies to E-cigs.

It's like taking poison, thinking about taking poison, simulating taking poison, pretending to take poison, etc. Tobacco is poison. It's just that simple.

If people choose to poison themselves it is none of your business.

 

[Esmeralda]

I'm a former smoker and believe that cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc., all forms of tobacco, including chewing, should be banned around the world, as well as anything that simulates smoking from candy ciggies to E-cigs.

It's like taking poison, thinking about taking poison, simulating taking poison, pretending to take poison, etc. Tobacco is poison. It's just that simple.

If people choose to poison themselves it is none of your business.

Yes it is. There is the issue of second hand smoke. There is the issue of the stink. There is the very serious issue of health care costs that are shared by everyone. Smoking is directly related to lung cancer, emphysema, and chronic bronchitis; as well, it is linked by extension to many other diseases wherein it influences the development of that disease and/or exacerbates it—all leading to higher health care costs which affect everyone.

Yes, it is my business. There is the pollution: how unlovely it is to go to the beach or the lakeside and be surrounded by thousands upon thousands of dirty old cigarette butts. As well, children are influenced to begin smoking, which usually turns into a life long habit and results in serious illness. As an adult, it is my business to look after the welfare of children. Don’t tell me it isn’t my business; it is very much my business.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm a former smoker and believe that cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc., all forms of tobacco, including chewing, should be banned around the world, as well as anything that simulates smoking from candy ciggies to E-cigs.

It's like taking poison, thinking about taking poison, simulating taking poison, pretending to take poison, etc. Tobacco is poison. It's just that simple.

If people choose to poison themselves it is none of your business.

Yes it is. There is the issue of second hand smoke.

A whiff of cigarette smoke now and then is less harmful to you that all the vehicle exhaust you breathe in every day.

There is the issue of the stink

.

So what you want to pass laws requiring the use of deodorants and breath mints now?
How about banning perfumes and colognes?

There is the very serious issue of health care costs that are shared by everyone.

Health care costs are not shared by anyone because everyone is supposed to have their own insurance and people who smoke pay more.

Smoking is directly related to lung cancer and emphysema, and is linked by extension to many other diseases which it exacerbates.

Again if someone knows the risks and everyone does it is none of your business if they choose to subject themselves to that risk.

Yes, it is my business. Plus there is the pollution: how unlovely it is to go to the beach or the lakeside and being surrounded by thousands upon thousands of old dirty old cigarette butts.

ALL people litter. I have been 50 miles away from the nearest road and have found trash from people.

As well, children are influenced to begin smoking, which usually turns into a life long habit and results in serious illness. As an adult, it is my business to look after the welfare of children. Don’t tell me it isn’t my business; it is very much my business.

So is drinking and eating shit food. Children are influenced by their parents and peers and if they are not your children it is none of your business.

 

[Esmeralda]

Only fools defend the injestion of poison. Only fools defend the chronic and habitual injesting of poison.

Ninety percent of all the smokers I've ever known or heard talking about it want to quit. If it is so wonderful, why does everyone who does it want to quit?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Only fools defend the injestion of poison. Only fools defend the chronic and habitual injesting of poison.

I am defending choice.

I don't smoke, do drugs, overeat, or drink too much.

That is my choice.

If some people smoke, do drugs, drink too much, eat too much etc those are their choices and are none of your business.

You have absolutely no right to tell other people what to do or how to live.

 

[zeke]

Only fools defend the injestion of poison. Only fools defend the chronic and habitual injesting of poison.

I am defending choice.

I don't smoke, do drugs, overeat, or drink too much.

That is my choice.

If some people smoke, do drugs, drink too much, eat too much etc those are their choices and are none of your business.

You have absolutely no right to tell other people what to do or how to live.

You are defending addictions and un healthy habits. But who cares. Right.

You have absolutely no right to tell anyone what activities conducted in a public space that is harmful has to be tolerated. Bullshit dude. If someone wants to smoke ten packs a day, not a problem, stay home and smoke till you die I say. But in public. Different matter.

Skull, is it true that you have no problem with drunk drivers either. I mean who are you to tell anyone that they shouldn't drive drunk? It's all about their "choice". Right?

You are being purposefully obtuse about this topic. You and I both know that there are some activities that shouldn't be tolerated. Drunk driving. Public smoking. Extremely loud music in the middle of the night. etc etc.

 

[rightwinger]

If it's your business you can do whatever the fuck you want.

If you chase customers away then so be it. Why do you give a flying fuck if a business chases customers away?

What does it matter if a few businesses allow smoking? They'll have a bar full of people puffing way while you are drinking your wine coolers like a good little girl at a bar that doesn't allow smoking.

You cannot do whatever the fuck you want with your business

Remember ......We do not serve negroes?

Unlike you I have no problem with people choosing who is allowed in their establishments.

If some bigot is stupid enough to turn away a paying customer simply because of their skin color I would be happy to serve that person in my business.

In fact with today's sentiments I don't think a business that didn't serve blacks wouldn't last very long. You should want that a bigot be put out of business.

Just like I don't think with today's sentiments that if smoking bans were relaxed that all businesses would allow it.

Some would sure but so what? You don't have to go there and you should like that too because then smokers would congregate where they could smoke and you wouldn't have to be near them or walk through a gauntlet of smokers on the way in and out of an establishment.

The problem with your strategy is that it assumes that for every establishment turning away a "negro" there would be one willing to serve him. That was not the case. To prevent offending white customers.....all sothern businesses refused to serve negroes

Same applied to bars and restaurants. They did not want to offend the 40-50% of customers who wanted to spew their filth so they would all allow smoking

The government bans on smoking made it so every business had to ban smoking....a level business playing field

 

[Skull Pilot]

Only fools defend the injestion of poison. Only fools defend the chronic and habitual injesting of poison.

I am defending choice.

I don't smoke, do drugs, overeat, or drink too much.

That is my choice.

If some people smoke, do drugs, drink too much, eat too much etc those are their choices and are none of your business.

You have absolutely no right to tell other people what to do or how to live.

You are defending addictions and un healthy habits. But who cares. Right.

I am defending people's rights to make their own choices. I'm sure I could examine your life and find some unhealthy choices you make. Is that my business?

You have absolutely no right to tell anyone what activities conducted in a public space that is harmful has to be tolerated. Bullshit dude. If someone wants to smoke ten packs a day, not a problem, stay home and smoke till you die I say. But in public. Different matter.

Define public space. I don't consider privately owned businesses to be public space.

Skull, is it true that you have no problem with drunk drivers either. I mean who are you to tell anyone that they shouldn't drive drunk? It's all about their "choice". Right?

Where did I say that? I will say I think DUI convictions should be based not on blood alcohol level but rather on actual levels of impairment. I've seen people who were under the legal limit not be able to drive well as well as people who were over the legal limit drive perfectly safely.

You are being purposefully obtuse about this topic. You and I both know that there are some activities that shouldn't be tolerated. Drunk driving. Public smoking. Extremely loud music in the middle of the night. etc etc.

You are being purposely thickheaded. Or maybe you can't help it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You cannot do whatever the fuck you want with your business

Remember ......We do not serve negroes?

Unlike you I have no problem with people choosing who is allowed in their establishments.

If some bigot is stupid enough to turn away a paying customer simply because of their skin color I would be happy to serve that person in my business.

In fact with today's sentiments I don't think a business that didn't serve blacks wouldn't last very long. You should want that a bigot be put out of business.

Just like I don't think with today's sentiments that if smoking bans were relaxed that all businesses would allow it.

Some would sure but so what? You don't have to go there and you should like that too because then smokers would congregate where they could smoke and you wouldn't have to be near them or walk through a gauntlet of smokers on the way in and out of an establishment.

The problem with your strategy is that it assumes that for every establishment turning away a "negro" there would be one willing to serve him. That was not the case. To prevent offending white customers.....all sothern businesses refused to serve negroes

If you actually read what I said I specifically said with today's sentiments. You are living in the past.

Same applied to bars and restaurants. They did not want to offend the 40-50% of customers who wanted to spew their filth so they would all allow smoking

And why is it any of your concern if a business chooses to "offend" some people?

Would you be "offended" if a local business only hired 5 foot 6 blonds with blue eyes and big tits?

The government bans on smoking made it so every business had to ban smoking....a levevel business playing field

It is not up to the government to decide that it is up to the public.