Smoking In Cars With Children

[Rouge Rover]

Are you for seatbelts in school busses? If it's all about the kids health then maybe we should address some other things. Car windows down in a traffic jam, are you OK with that? How about video games? Are you for them? Riding bikes on anything other than flat concrete surfaces, you alright with that?

Its not all or nothing. That is the fallacy in an argument such as yours. Some risks are deemed more acceptable than others. Giving your child cancer and aggravating asthma and allergies are not acceptable.

What about instant death from a face plant? How about brain chemistry being altered? There's no fallacy at work here, you either care about kids or you don't.

What about it? Yes there is a fallacy at work. Youre basically pretending that if we execute mass murders we should do the same to jay walkers. IOW the fallacy of false equivalence.

There is no false equivalence here. Smoking bad, right? How bad is it and when does it manifest? Leave your kid unattended, how much bad shit can happen and how soon? If it's all about the kid's health you're on a very dark path on this.

Sure there is- why you want to excuse blowing smoke in a child's face I don't get.

We know cigarette smoking is bad for the smokers health- and for those who have heavy exposure to the smoke.
Yes- this is about a kid's health.

No- we can't protect kids from every possible situation- you appear to think that our options are binary- do nothing to protect our kids from health dangers- or protect them 100% from every possible health danger- presumably because you just are pissed that anyone would possibly restrict a parents right to blow smoke in his kids face.

You're right, we can't protect kids from every possible situation. But, if you do want to protect kids from some of them what would you choose, the immediate danger or one that would be faced years later, if at all? I think your concern is misguided.

 

[Rouge Rover]

Are you for seatbelts in school busses? If it's all about the kids health then maybe we should address some other things. Car windows down in a traffic jam, are you OK with that? How about video games? Are you for them? Riding bikes on anything other than flat concrete surfaces, you alright with that?

Seatbelts in school buses- I have heard both sides of the argument- and I don't think that there is a clear and convincing argument for either side- overall I lean towards more seat belts.

Windows down in cars? What is the concern there? They breath in the same air whether the windows are down or not.
Video games? Do you think video games cause lung cancer?
Riding bikes- kids should wear helmets- the surface that they ride on is rather immaterial

They do not breath the same air.

how can you tell?

By reading the owners manual. You should try it sometime.

Air doesnt have an owners manual. Did someone trick you into buying something you didnt need?

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

 

[Fueri]

Certainly it's downright stupid to smoke around your kids, even in general. Everyone knows it's bad for them. It's bad for them physically and it's likely that this increases the chances that they'll be smokers, although I don't know the stats on that really.

Here's where I get stuck. If a parent is smoking in the home there's not a ton of difference between that and smoking in the car. We can talk about air volume relative concentrations etc., sure, but how many people are rolling around with the windows up smoking. It may be the case, in fact, that the child is exposed to less smoke in the car than they are sitting in the kitchen while mom is puffing away, because the window is generally open in the car. Hard to say, I suppose. Maybe studies have been done and posted here, as I admittedly didn't read all of the posts here.

Can we then say it's also an illegal offense to smoke at home. Somehow I don't think so. We step over that line and there's no going back. That's just as stupid, IMO, but I don't think we have the right to literally poke our noses through someone's kitchen window and tell them how to live/parent, whatever.

 

[Asclepias]

Seatbelts in school buses- I have heard both sides of the argument- and I don't think that there is a clear and convincing argument for either side- overall I lean towards more seat belts.

Windows down in cars? What is the concern there? They breath in the same air whether the windows are down or not.
Video games? Do you think video games cause lung cancer?
Riding bikes- kids should wear helmets- the surface that they ride on is rather immaterial

They do not breath the same air.

how can you tell?

By reading the owners manual. You should try it sometime.

Air doesnt have an owners manual. Did someone trick you into buying something you didnt need?

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

You said they didnt breath the same air, not the same car.

How can you tell which air is recycled and which air is not?

 

[Asclepias]

Certainly it's downright stupid to smoke around your kids, even in general. Everyone knows it's bad for them. It's bad for them physically and it's likely that this increases the chances that they'll be smokers, although I don't know the stats on that really.

Here's where I get stuck. If a parent is smoking in the home there's not a ton of difference between that and smoking in the car. We can talk about air volume relative concentrations etc., sure, but how many people are rolling around with the windows up smoking. It may be the case, in fact, that the child is exposed to less smoke in the car than they are sitting in the kitchen while mom is puffing away, because the window is generally open in the car. Hard to say, I suppose. Maybe studies have been done and posted here, as I admittedly didn't read all of the posts here.

Can we then say it's also an illegal offense to smoke at home. Somehow I don't think so. We step over that line and there's no going back. That's just as stupid, IMO, but I don't think we have the right to literally poke our noses through someone's kitchen window and tell them how to live/parent, whatever.

Enforcement becomes an issue. You can say its illegal all day long but unless you are going to go all big brother then you cant enforce it. Seeing someone smoking in a car with kids is much easier to spot and penalize.

 

[Rouge Rover]

They do not breath the same air.

how can you tell?

By reading the owners manual. You should try it sometime.

Air doesnt have an owners manual. Did someone trick you into buying something you didnt need?

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

You said they didnt breath the same air, not the same car.

How can you tell which air is recycled and which air is not?

Hey, dumbass. Go out to your car right now and look at the little pictures surrounding the air switch. Then read your owners manual retard. Even among the dumbest of the dumb you stand tall as king idiot.

 

[80zephyr]

Maybe someone here can tell me why asthma and allergies have skyrocketed among children, while our air is cleaner than ever, and they are exposed to less cigarette smoke than ever.

I'm all ears.

Mark

Sounds like a logical fallacy. No one claimed cigarettes were the sole cause of allergies or asthma.

Nor did I. However, the air is much cleaner today then when I was a kid. As a boy, I don't recall knowing even one other kid with asthma.

A few years ago, when I helped coach a middle school sports team, there were quite a few of them.

Does it occur to anyone that not being exposed to enough germs and chemicals early in life will cause these conditions?

Most studies on second hand smoke show that children exposed to smoke develop less lung cancer later in life than kids who are not exposed to it. Could it be that some exposure is good to build up an immunity?

Mark

When I was a kid, women didn't have trouble getting pregnant. Now we have fertility clinics. Children are becoming sexually mature at a much younger age now. Both of those thing are directly attributable to what is now added to our food - especially meat.

They say smoking causes a lower birth weight and yet babies used to be much smaller than they are now. The parents of those children were smokers. IOW, its very likely that bigger babies are being born to non-smokers.

There is some truth to what you say but no one develops an immunity to most household chemicals. That's just hooey.

And to extrapolate what you or I have written to meaning children are not harmed by indoor (or outdoor) pollution, including cig smoke, is ridiculous.

Smoke all you want but you do not have the right to force others, of any age, to smoke.

Do you have the right to subject them to car exhaust fumes or cookout flames?

Mark

I dont know many people that smoke exhaust fumes or cookout flames everyday.

If you live around vehicles, you get much more exhaust fumes than second hand smoke, any day of the year.

Mark

 

[Asclepias]

how can you tell?

By reading the owners manual. You should try it sometime.

Air doesnt have an owners manual. Did someone trick you into buying something you didnt need?

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

You said they didnt breath the same air, not the same car.

How can you tell which air is recycled and which air is not?

Hey, dumbass. Go out to your car right now and look at the little pictures surrounding the air switch. Then read your owners manual retard. Even among the dumbest of the dumb you stand tall as king idiot.

That still doesnt tell me how you know which air is recycled and which air is not. Are you claiming that your car produces oxygen?

 

[80zephyr]

Smoking with kids around is bad idea period. I've seen several people that died due to lung cancer that never smoke but partners smoke.

The Harmful Effects of Second-hand Smoke - HealthLinkBC File #30a

So, you are telling me that the people that directly inhaled the smoke didn't get lung cancer, but that those who were exposed sporadically did?

What does logic tell you as to your train of thought?

Mark

No. You obviously havent been keeping up with current events. Lots of people that directly inhaled the smoke have died.

If so, then the people that actually smoke should be dying at a rate that should kill every one of them.

Mark

 

[Asclepias]

Sounds like a logical fallacy. No one claimed cigarettes were the sole cause of allergies or asthma.

Nor did I. However, the air is much cleaner today then when I was a kid. As a boy, I don't recall knowing even one other kid with asthma.

A few years ago, when I helped coach a middle school sports team, there were quite a few of them.

Does it occur to anyone that not being exposed to enough germs and chemicals early in life will cause these conditions?

Most studies on second hand smoke show that children exposed to smoke develop less lung cancer later in life than kids who are not exposed to it. Could it be that some exposure is good to build up an immunity?

Mark

When I was a kid, women didn't have trouble getting pregnant. Now we have fertility clinics. Children are becoming sexually mature at a much younger age now. Both of those thing are directly attributable to what is now added to our food - especially meat.

They say smoking causes a lower birth weight and yet babies used to be much smaller than they are now. The parents of those children were smokers. IOW, its very likely that bigger babies are being born to non-smokers.

There is some truth to what you say but no one develops an immunity to most household chemicals. That's just hooey.

And to extrapolate what you or I have written to meaning children are not harmed by indoor (or outdoor) pollution, including cig smoke, is ridiculous.

Smoke all you want but you do not have the right to force others, of any age, to smoke.

Do you have the right to subject them to car exhaust fumes or cookout flames?

Mark

I dont know many people that smoke exhaust fumes or cookout flames everyday.

If you live around vehicles, you get much more exhaust fumes than second hand smoke, any day of the year.

Mark

Thats not true. I dont know many people that live in their garage with their cars running.

 

[Rouge Rover]

By reading the owners manual. You should try it sometime.

Air doesnt have an owners manual. Did someone trick you into buying something you didnt need?

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

You said they didnt breath the same air, not the same car.

How can you tell which air is recycled and which air is not?

Hey, dumbass. Go out to your car right now and look at the little pictures surrounding the air switch. Then read your owners manual retard. Even among the dumbest of the dumb you stand tall as king idiot.

That still doesnt tell me how you know which air is recycled and which air is not. Are you claiming that your car produces oxygen?

I don't believe you actually did it. No matter what we do for you, even depict shit in simple pictures, you can't figure it out.

 

[Asclepias]

Smoking with kids around is bad idea period. I've seen several people that died due to lung cancer that never smoke but partners smoke.

The Harmful Effects of Second-hand Smoke - HealthLinkBC File #30a

So, you are telling me that the people that directly inhaled the smoke didn't get lung cancer, but that those who were exposed sporadically did?

What does logic tell you as to your train of thought?

Mark

No. You obviously havent been keeping up with current events. Lots of people that directly inhaled the smoke have died.

If so, then the people that actually smoke should be dying at a rate that should kill every one of them.

Mark

Who told you that? You are aware that people are not clones of each other right?

 

[80zephyr]

What do you think about school busses?

I am against smoking in school buses.

Are you for seatbelts in school busses? If it's all about the kids health then maybe we should address some other things. Car windows down in a traffic jam, are you OK with that? How about video games? Are you for them? Riding bikes on anything other than flat concrete surfaces, you alright with that?

Its not all or nothing. That is the fallacy in an argument such as yours. Some risks are deemed more acceptable than others. Giving your child cancer and aggravating asthma and allergies are not acceptable.

What about instant death from a face plant? How about brain chemistry being altered? There's no fallacy at work here, you either care about kids or you don't.

What about it? Yes there is a fallacy at work. Youre basically pretending that if we execute mass murders we should do the same to jay walkers. IOW the fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right. It is false equivalence. A face plant is much deadlier than second hand smoke will ever be. Why do you ignore it?

Mark

 

[Asclepias]

Air doesnt have an owners manual. Did someone trick you into buying something you didnt need?

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

You said they didnt breath the same air, not the same car.

How can you tell which air is recycled and which air is not?

Hey, dumbass. Go out to your car right now and look at the little pictures surrounding the air switch. Then read your owners manual retard. Even among the dumbest of the dumb you stand tall as king idiot.

That still doesnt tell me how you know which air is recycled and which air is not. Are you claiming that your car produces oxygen?

I don't believe you actually did it. No matter what we do for you, even depict shit in simple pictures, you can't figure it out.

Maybe if you stop stalling and show me a car that produces oxygen i would figure it out. How can you tell the difference between the new oxygen produced by the car and the recycled oxygen?

 

[Rouge Rover]

I am against smoking in school buses.

Are you for seatbelts in school busses? If it's all about the kids health then maybe we should address some other things. Car windows down in a traffic jam, are you OK with that? How about video games? Are you for them? Riding bikes on anything other than flat concrete surfaces, you alright with that?

Its not all or nothing. That is the fallacy in an argument such as yours. Some risks are deemed more acceptable than others. Giving your child cancer and aggravating asthma and allergies are not acceptable.

What about instant death from a face plant? How about brain chemistry being altered? There's no fallacy at work here, you either care about kids or you don't.

What about it? Yes there is a fallacy at work. Youre basically pretending that if we execute mass murders we should do the same to jay walkers. IOW the fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right. It is false equivalence. A face plant is much deadlier than second hand smoke will ever be. Why do you ignore it?

Mark

You're right. No kid should ever be allowed to leave the house.

 

[Asclepias]

I am against smoking in school buses.

Are you for seatbelts in school busses? If it's all about the kids health then maybe we should address some other things. Car windows down in a traffic jam, are you OK with that? How about video games? Are you for them? Riding bikes on anything other than flat concrete surfaces, you alright with that?

Its not all or nothing. That is the fallacy in an argument such as yours. Some risks are deemed more acceptable than others. Giving your child cancer and aggravating asthma and allergies are not acceptable.

What about instant death from a face plant? How about brain chemistry being altered? There's no fallacy at work here, you either care about kids or you don't.

What about it? Yes there is a fallacy at work. Youre basically pretending that if we execute mass murders we should do the same to jay walkers. IOW the fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right. It is false equivalence. A face plant is much deadlier than second hand smoke will ever be. Why do you ignore it?

Mark

Who told you a face plant was more deadlier than second hand smoke? I've face planted as a kid and I am still alive.

 

[Fueri]

Certainly it's downright stupid to smoke around your kids, even in general. Everyone knows it's bad for them. It's bad for them physically and it's likely that this increases the chances that they'll be smokers, although I don't know the stats on that really.

Here's where I get stuck. If a parent is smoking in the home there's not a ton of difference between that and smoking in the car. We can talk about air volume relative concentrations etc., sure, but how many people are rolling around with the windows up smoking. It may be the case, in fact, that the child is exposed to less smoke in the car than they are sitting in the kitchen while mom is puffing away, because the window is generally open in the car. Hard to say, I suppose. Maybe studies have been done and posted here, as I admittedly didn't read all of the posts here.

Can we then say it's also an illegal offense to smoke at home. Somehow I don't think so. We step over that line and there's no going back. That's just as stupid, IMO, but I don't think we have the right to literally poke our noses through someone's kitchen window and tell them how to live/parent, whatever.

Enforcement becomes an issue. You can say its illegal all day long but unless you are going to go all big brother then you cant enforce it. Seeing someone smoking in a car with kids is much easier to spot and penalize.

I know and actually I'd thought of that, but then my mind went to nosy neighbors and cops using that as an excuse to get into someone's house, Child Services then getting involved etc. which I guess is your 'big brother', but I don't for one second trust that big brother won't do whatever big brother is empowered to do if and when big brother decides to do so for whatever reason may come up.

and I have little, if any, doubt that the next step after cars would be houses. Same arguments would be made, same reasons would be given and that incremental step would seem logical at that point.

Slippery, slippery slope.....

 

[Rouge Rover]

Cars do though dumbass. Some air is recycled, some isn't, depends on your vent setting.

You said they didnt breath the same air, not the same car.

How can you tell which air is recycled and which air is not?

Hey, dumbass. Go out to your car right now and look at the little pictures surrounding the air switch. Then read your owners manual retard. Even among the dumbest of the dumb you stand tall as king idiot.

That still doesnt tell me how you know which air is recycled and which air is not. Are you claiming that your car produces oxygen?

I don't believe you actually did it. No matter what we do for you, even depict shit in simple pictures, you can't figure it out.

Maybe if you stop stalling and show me a car that produces oxygen i would figure it out. How can you tell the difference between the new oxygen produced by the car and the recycled oxygen?

I said recycled, not produces oxygen. You're this dumb? One more reason to ship your dumb ass back to Africa.

 

[80zephyr]

Smoking with kids around is bad idea period. I've seen several people that died due to lung cancer that never smoke but partners smoke.

The Harmful Effects of Second-hand Smoke - HealthLinkBC File #30a

So, you are telling me that the people that directly inhaled the smoke didn't get lung cancer, but that those who were exposed sporadically did?

What does logic tell you as to your train of thought?

Mark

No. You obviously havent been keeping up with current events. Lots of people that directly inhaled the smoke have died.

If so, then the people that actually smoke should be dying at a rate that should kill every one of them.

Mark

Who told you that? You are aware that people are not clones of each other right?

Logic, reasoning and common sense told me that. If it doesn't tell you that, maybe you should rethink your positions.

Mak

 

[Asclepias]

Smoking with kids around is bad idea period. I've seen several people that died due to lung cancer that never smoke but partners smoke.

The Harmful Effects of Second-hand Smoke - HealthLinkBC File #30a

So, you are telling me that the people that directly inhaled the smoke didn't get lung cancer, but that those who were exposed sporadically did?

What does logic tell you as to your train of thought?

Mark

No. You obviously havent been keeping up with current events. Lots of people that directly inhaled the smoke have died.

If so, then the people that actually smoke should be dying at a rate that should kill every one of them.

Mark

Who told you that? You are aware that people are not clones of each other right?

Logic, reasoning and common sense told me that. If it doesn't tell you that, maybe you should rethink your positions.

Mak

Sounds more like an ill formed opinion to me. Its obvious you are unaware that peoples bodies react differently based on a variety of genetic and environmental variables.