So...if you were in that Nightclub in Cali. would you want a gun to stop the shooter?

[Lewdog]

Which 24? Mostly ones with almost completely rural populations? Also, individual cities within states can have their own gun laws...

And so now you are ok if a cop stands outside of every bar at closing checking for guns and to see if people carrying them are drunk? You going to be ok when those people lose their right to carry?

It only takes fucking common sense you don't mix alcohol and firearms, thus why there is a law about not carrying while drunk. So why the fuck would you want to make that easier to happen by letting people carry guns into places selling alcohol? You've lost your damn mind. I think you spend so much time looking for articles about guns you've gotten lead poisoning.

again..it is already against the law to carry a gun while intoxicated......24 states allow you to carry in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol....you are trying desperately to cling to a point about something, but you can't make that point because you don't have anything...

AND AGAIN, why would you want to put people in a situation to be drunk and have guns? It's just fucking stupid. It's as bright at Trump letting the NRA talk him into allowing those with mental illness be able to buy guns.

Again.....24 states already allow this and nothing you say willl happen has happened in the states where it has been allowed for years.....you have nothing...

The NRA was one group our of 24 that didn't want fascist asshats like you stripping Rights away from people because they have insomnia......blame the ACLU and 23 other mental health groups, you stupid doofus....

Gun Control Laws Should Be Fair

But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.

In this era of “alternative facts,” we must urge politicians to create laws based on reliable evidence and solid data.

The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular.

To the contrary, studies show that people with mental disabilities are less likely to commit firearm crimes than to be the victimsof violence by others.

--------------------------
The ACLU and 23 national disability groups did not oppose this rule because we want more guns in our community. This is about more than guns. Adding more innocent Americans to the National Instant Criminal Background database because of a mental disability is a disturbing trend — one that could be applied to voting, parenting or other rights dearer than gun ownership. We opposed it because it would do little to stem gun violence but do much to harm our civil rights.

AGAIN... just because 24 states allow it doesn't mean it is smart.

And no, I'm not going to blame the ACLU for Trump making it easier for those with mental illness to be able to buy guns. That's TRUMP'S decision... and every time some fucking idiot like the one in California with a mental illness that shouldn't have a gun shoots up a crowd of people, that's on Trump.

Yes.... you are a moron...... 24 states already allow people to go to a bar and carry a gun, they just can't drink.....there have been none of the problems you say will happen....but you say the actual facts on the ground, the actual experience where they have actually done this without problems...means nothing.....showing you truly are a left wing doofus.

And yes.....the ACLU, a bigger organization than the NRA and 23 other mental health organizations also opposed stripping Rights from people and you just blame Trump....you are really fucking stupid.

And then, California Authorities had this guy, talked and studied this guy, and let him go.....and it was their gun laws in control of this guy getting a gun.....for decades....and now it is Trump's fault..... you are a doofus.....

No, only a moron would want people to be drinking and carrying guns. You are hopeless.

Then to make yourself look even more stupid, you are arguing about allowing those with mental illness being able to get and carry guns.

 

[MaryL]

Ok, lay off the bull scat. I like guns, they are wonderful examples of modern technology and efficient phallus symbols of male fertility. But we have had enough of a good thing. It's like too many lemon peelers.Or lawn mowers . No mass murders by mowing or peelings though. Mass shootings, up the ying yang. Maybe its me, but perhaps there is a problem with guns. I have a overactive imagination, I guess.

 

[elongobardi]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

What I would like, is that nobody has guns to begin with. That would sort of end this vicious cycle. No guns= no mass shootings. I have a right to own something I despise. I liken the second amendment to the right to pour acid down your pants. We really need that.

How do you explain this......how is that like pouring acid down your pants..when the crime rates go down, not up?

Does the truth, facts or reality have any bearing on how you think about things?

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

It’s going to take the liberals a few days to answer that one. They have to speak too those in charge to come up with a lie


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

Ok, lay off the bull scat. I like guns, they are wonderful examples of modern technology and efficient phallus symbols of male fertility. But we have had enough of a good thing. It's like too many lemon peelers.Or lawn mowers . No mass murders by mowing or peelings though. Mass shootings, up the ying yang. Maybe its me, but perhaps there is a problem with guns. I have a overactive imagination, I guess.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders. Gun crime is down 75%, gun murder down 49%, violent crime down 72% as more Americans own and carry guns....

Mass public shooting deaths in 2017.... 117
2016....71

Lawn mower deaths....75
Falling off ladder deaths....300
Knife murder every single year....over 1,500

Seeing the actual numbers...can you see why your post makes no sense....since the lives saved with guns far outnumber the lives taken during entire years worth of mass public shootings...in fact, in 35 years the total number of murders for mass public shootings was 795...... 35 years...... again...the number murdered by knives every single year?

US mass shootings, 1982-2018: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Total murders by mass public shooters...1982-2017
795


knife murders.....2009-2013.....

2009----1,836
2010----1,933
2011----1,611
2012---1,769
2013---1.956

Seeing these numbers...the facts...the reality, that more lives are saved when Americans own and carry guns....how do you keep saying we need to get rid of guns?

This doesn't even take into account the close to 200 million unarmed people murdered by their own governments....again, after they had their guns taken away....

And you still go with your position?

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Kind of late to want anything, should have given some thinking about early in the dayl..

 

[MaryL]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

 

[2aguy]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

 

[MaryL]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

Nope not saying that at all. You make this sound like a either/or proposition. We don't need firearms anymore. we just don't need firearms anymore. They are a throwback and a anachronism.

 

[Lewdog]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

 

[2aguy]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

Nope not saying that at all. You make this sound like a either/or proposition. We don't need firearms anymore. we just don't need firearms anymore. They are a throwback and a anachronism.

You are saying that rape, robbery and murder are anachronisms....that they no longer happen to innocent people? Again, this is why we don't trust your judgement on serious issues.

 

[2aguy]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

 

[MaryL]

If any of these mass shooters had had, say, potato peelers or nutcrackers, this wouldn't be an issue. Guns are the issue. If someone came at me with a shoe horn, or swim fins, and hurt me, ok. but why should I get sucked into cycle where I feel I need a get a shoe horn, swim fins or potato peeler because people are reckless and abusive with them?

 

[elongobardi]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. You don’t want to look at facts. If your life was in danger and saved your dumbass because they had a gun you would be thanking them forever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lewdog]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

 

[elongobardi]

If any of these mass shooters had had, say, potato peelers or nutcrackers, this wouldn't be an issue. Guns are the issue. If someone came at me with a shoe horn, or swim fins, and hurt me, ok. but why should I get sucked into cycle where I feel I need a get a shoe horn, swim fins or potato peeler because people are reckless and abusive with them?

You are ignorant. Criminals will always have guns. You take them away from law abiding citizens and the murder rate will jump up. You have no idea what you are talking about and should stick to buying clothes or move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MaryL]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right? Dude, you Sound a little stressed. And a tad kinda paranoid. You are stretching this a bit. People shooting up kindergartens is not going to help fight government oppression. In fact, just the reverse. it isn't the government that is the oppressor, it's mentally ill people with easy access to gats that are the problem now. That isn't an some dim foggy abstraction, that's reality. GUNS are the problem, boy-o.

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

 

[2aguy]

If any of these mass shooters had had, say, potato peelers or nutcrackers, this wouldn't be an issue. Guns are the issue. If someone came at me with a shoe horn, or swim fins, and hurt me, ok. but why should I get sucked into cycle where I feel I need a get a shoe horn, swim fins or potato peeler because people are reckless and abusive with them?

A muslim terrorist in Nice, France killed 86 people and injured 435 others in 5 minutes with a rental truck.

Again...if mass public shooting is your issue,

2017.... 117 murdere in mass public shootings
2016.... 71 murdered in mass public shootings.

Total number killed in mass public shootings over 35 years...... 795

US mass shootings, 1982-2018: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Total murders by mass public shooters...1982-2017
795

Knives, murdered by year.....

knife murders.....2009-2013.....

2009----1,836
2010----1,933
2011----1,611
2012---1,769
2013---1.956
2015....1,589
2016....1,632
2017....1,591

Falling off a ladder deaths.....300 a year..... 300 X 35 = 10,500 over the same 35 year period of mass shootings...

( Ladder falling deaths....300, not specified by year
Ladder Safety - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI)


So......you are not a serious thinker, you are not a serious person...

 

[elongobardi]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

You idiots are the ones who need help. You took a course, wow Your instructor is a bigger moron then you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

 

[skye]

Yes

Myself I would have want to have a gun...to kill the shooter

No doubt about it