So...if you were in that Nightclub in Cali. would you want a gun to stop the shooter?

[Lewdog]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

 

[Lewdog]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

You idiots are the ones who need help. You took a course, wow Your instructor is a bigger moron then you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh great comeback! Thanks for playing.

 

[MaryL]

If I was in that nightclub in Cali, or that kindergarten in Sandyhook, I would want to go back in time and press control alt delete and amend rescind and otherwise obliterate the second amendment. Nobody NEEDS guns anymore. Just hoodlums, thugs or reprobates. And the gun manufactures. Don't leave them out. Lordy, lordy, who the hell do you think funds this mess? Get over it guys.

 

[2aguy]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

Ahhh... I see...the Gun Violence Archive cited in The Trace website...... you used two really dumb sources, I used actual research papers....

The Trace cites the National Crime Victimization Survey....which is a victim survey, not a gun self defense research group, or a rape research group....they do not ask the individual if they used a gun for self defense, in fact, the word gun isn't even in their survey....

They can't even get the number of rapes correct...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

----------
There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs.

NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

 

[skye]

I would have kill the shooter in a heartbeat

No problem.

 

[2aguy]

If I was in that nightclub in Cali, or that kindergarten in Sandyhook, I would want to go back in time and press control alt delete and amend rescind and otherwise obliterate the second amendment. Nobody NEEDS guns anymore. Just hoodlums, thugs or reprobates. And the gun manufactures. Don't leave them out. Get over it guys. Philistine Neanderthals.

Look...it is Saturday night but that still doesn't excuse drinking and mixing it with your meds......

 

[2aguy]

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

No, moron, you showed me the main source, The Trace, an anti gun website, quoting an anti gun source, the Gun Violence Archive, and the National Crime Victimization Survey that doesn't ask direct questions about gun use for self defense.........and as I just showed you they can't even get their core job done accurately....

I gave you actual studies.....

 

[Lewdog]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

Ahhh... I see...the Gun Violence Archive cited in The Trace website...... you used two really dumb sources, I used actual research papers....

The Trace cites the National Crime Victimization Survey....which is a victim survey, not a gun self defense research group, or a rape research group....they do not ask the individual if they used a gun for self defense, in fact, the word gun isn't even in their survey....

They can't even get the number of rapes correct...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

----------
There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs.

NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

I used a site the referenced SEVERAL articles using NCVS data newer than your's.

NCVS stands for National Crime Victim Survey... and it often gets higher reports of sexual assault because it is anonymous survey, and sexual assault on women is one of the most under-reported crimes in the United States.

 

[buttercup]

I would not like a gun to help me, Sam I am. I would not like that at all. I would rather not have anyone have a gun at all, Sam I am. Nope, nada. Nyet. Negatori senori. Nill. Zed , goose eggs. This is a totally self defeating argument. I have a vicious saber-toothed weasel. So you have to go out and get a bigger venomous guinea pig. It's like a mini arms race. It's completely artificial. That is the road we are going down. Lets be Americans and human beings and end this silly vicious cycle.

Yeah, tell that to the people who take advantage of others who are unarmed. And as important as that is, that’s not even the real reason for the Second Amendment.

 

[Lewdog]

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

No, moron, you showed me the main source, The Trace, an anti gun website, quoting an anti gun source, the Gun Violence Archive, and the National Crime Victimization Survey that doesn't ask direct questions about gun use for self defense.........and as I just showed you they can't even get their core job done accurately....

I gave you actual studies.....

It quotes several actual studies... and it is all based on newer evidence than your's. You are referencing studies over 20 years old... Jesus you are dense.

 

[2aguy]

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

Ahhh... I see...the Gun Violence Archive cited in The Trace website...... you used two really dumb sources, I used actual research papers....

The Trace cites the National Crime Victimization Survey....which is a victim survey, not a gun self defense research group, or a rape research group....they do not ask the individual if they used a gun for self defense, in fact, the word gun isn't even in their survey....

They can't even get the number of rapes correct...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

----------
There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs.

NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

I used a site the referenced SEVERAL articles using NCVS data newer than your's.

NCVS stands for National Crime Victim Survey... and it often gets higher reports of sexual assault because it is anonymous survey, and sexual assault on women is one of the most under-reported crimes in the United States.

You don't know what you are talking about...

NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010

 

[skye]

If I have a gun.... I see yet another false flag going on..

I have no problem in killing the scum

It's normal....stop deep state shit

 

[buttercup]

People are so easily manipulated. It’s sad. (Well not all,thankfully.)

 

[2aguy]

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

No, moron, you showed me the main source, The Trace, an anti gun website, quoting an anti gun source, the Gun Violence Archive, and the National Crime Victimization Survey that doesn't ask direct questions about gun use for self defense.........and as I just showed you they can't even get their core job done accurately....

I gave you actual studies.....

It quotes several actual studies... and it is all based on newer evidence than your's. You are referencing studies over 20 years old... Jesus you are dense.

A time when fewer women actually had guns vs. today when more women have guns...you freaking doofus........and they show a gun is the most effective tool to stop a rape......

You use rabidly anti gun sites as your evidence.....you are a freaking moronic doofus....

 

[Lewdog]

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

No, moron, you showed me the main source, The Trace, an anti gun website, quoting an anti gun source, the Gun Violence Archive, and the National Crime Victimization Survey that doesn't ask direct questions about gun use for self defense.........and as I just showed you they can't even get their core job done accurately....

I gave you actual studies.....

It quotes several actual studies... and it is all based on newer evidence than your's. You are referencing studies over 20 years old... Jesus you are dense.

A time when fewer women actually had guns vs. today when more women have guns...you freaking doofus........and they show a gun is the most effective tool to stop a rape......

You use rabidly anti gun sites as your evidence.....you are a freaking moronic doofus....

You are using data and studies from OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO... Get some new shit.

 

[2aguy]

Again.... you are saying that it is better that people are raped, robbed and murdered by those who are stronger than they are, or who attack with more attackers...than the innocent victim be able to save themselves or their families with a gun..... 1.1 million victims according to the Centers for Disease Control, 1.5 million according to the Department of Justice...

And that makes sense to you?

And those people who were murdered by their governments? That is all fine by you too....right?

And you guys wonder why we don't trust your judgement on the gun issue....

No, she is not. You think everything is one polar side or the other. This isn't a zero-sum game, and in fact, the stats say that more often than not, when a woman has a gun as self-defense, she doesn't use it, and the perpetrator takes it and uses it against her. Not to mention, many times it results in death rather than anything else.

And you just made that up, you moron. There is no research that shows that, in fact, studying self defense stories published in the news, the victim disarms the attacker more than they are disarmed.

And actual research... actual research, not you pulling up stories out of your ass, show that a woman with a gun is safer from rape than an unarmed woman...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Wrong, no I didn't.

Gun-Rights Advocates Claim Owning a Gun Makes a Woman Safer. The Research Says They're Wrong.

And there is quite the difference between resisting rape, than resisting rape by pulling out a gun.

I just took a Graduate Level course over the summer about violence against women. Hell I still have the book around here somewhere. The biggest thing to helping women avoid being a victim of violence, is if women who use self-defense to avoid being assaulted was more publicized... and no, not with guns.

You seriously need help. It is VERY unhealthy for someone to spend all day, everyday, posting about gun crime and spouting pro-NRA stats that are widely exaggerated.

Ahhh... I see...the Gun Violence Archive cited in The Trace website...... you used two really dumb sources, I used actual research papers....

The Trace cites the National Crime Victimization Survey....which is a victim survey, not a gun self defense research group, or a rape research group....they do not ask the individual if they used a gun for self defense, in fact, the word gun isn't even in their survey....

They can't even get the number of rapes correct...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

----------
There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs.

NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

I used a site the referenced SEVERAL articles using NCVS data newer than your's.

NCVS stands for National Crime Victim Survey... and it often gets higher reports of sexual assault because it is anonymous survey, and sexual assault on women is one of the most under-reported crimes in the United States.

And, moron....if you actually read your link...they don't say rape, they talk about guns in the home, you doofus....and that study is actually wrong too....but again, they are not talking about rape, they are talking about husbands and boyfriends murdering their girlfriends and wives, you moron....my studies that I show specifically discuss rape and stopping them with guns.....

 

[2aguy]

I showed you actual research that shows they are wrong....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

No, moron, you showed me the main source, The Trace, an anti gun website, quoting an anti gun source, the Gun Violence Archive, and the National Crime Victimization Survey that doesn't ask direct questions about gun use for self defense.........and as I just showed you they can't even get their core job done accurately....

I gave you actual studies.....

It quotes several actual studies... and it is all based on newer evidence than your's. You are referencing studies over 20 years old... Jesus you are dense.

A time when fewer women actually had guns vs. today when more women have guns...you freaking doofus........and they show a gun is the most effective tool to stop a rape......

You use rabidly anti gun sites as your evidence.....you are a freaking moronic doofus....

You are using data and studies from OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO... Get some new shit.

Those studies actually focus on rape..... the links you gave don't focus on rape, and are innaccurate in what they claim to research...

The homes where women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends have long histories of crime, violence drug use, alcoholism and police interactions......that has no bearing on normal, law abiding people who have guns in their home, you doofus...they are lying to you ...... they are using the worst homes with the worst problems and saying that normal people are the same as these criminals...... they are lying ....

 

[MaryL]

I no touch feely liberal. Nope far from it. I am a hard headed realist. When I see a problem , bingo bango, I don't shy away from fixing it. When I have a leaky faucet or idiot light on in my car, I address it head on and fix it right away. I am sure you do, too. Gun violence is one of those things too. We don't need guns in society anymore. And it's pretty obvious they are the problem. People. Well, people never change. You are always going to have spoilers and trolls. Take away some of their toys, and they will find something else. But Guns? Really?

 

[2aguy]

I no touch feely liberal. Nope far from it. I am a hard headed realist. When I see a problem , bingo bango, I don't shy away from fixing it. When I have a leaky faucet or idiot light on my car, I address it head on and fix it right away. I am sure you do, too. Gun violence is one of those things too. We don't need guns in society anymore. And it's pretty obvious they are the problem. People. Well, people never change. You are always going to have spoilers and trolls. Take away some of their toys, and they will find something else. But Guns? Really?

Do you have anyone you can call...you know, to take you to detox?

 

[Lewdog]

...and I showed you research that is newer than your's. Did you notice the date on your shit? I bet you didn't even click on the link...

No, moron, you showed me the main source, The Trace, an anti gun website, quoting an anti gun source, the Gun Violence Archive, and the National Crime Victimization Survey that doesn't ask direct questions about gun use for self defense.........and as I just showed you they can't even get their core job done accurately....

I gave you actual studies.....

It quotes several actual studies... and it is all based on newer evidence than your's. You are referencing studies over 20 years old... Jesus you are dense.

A time when fewer women actually had guns vs. today when more women have guns...you freaking doofus........and they show a gun is the most effective tool to stop a rape......

You use rabidly anti gun sites as your evidence.....you are a freaking moronic doofus....

You are using data and studies from OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO... Get some new shit.

Those studies actually focus on rape..... the links you gave don't focus on rape, and are innaccurate in what they claim to research...

The homes where women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends have long histories of crime, violence drug use, alcoholism and police interactions......that has no bearing on normal, law abiding people who have guns in their home, you doofus...they are lying to you ...... they are using the worst homes with the worst problems and saying that normal people are the same as these criminals...... they are lying ....

"The assumption that guns can prevent violence is dangerous and reflects a serious misunderstanding in the media about rape and prevention strategy. Many experts in the anti-violence field have agreed that having a gun only increases your risk of violence. A 1998 studyon guns and self-defense found that women who live in a household with a gun are more likely to be killed in their homes than those who do not. Furthermore, using a gun successfully for self-defense is a very rare occurrence. Despite the 300 million guns Americans are estimated to own, a 2012 study found that for every justifiable homicide with a gun, there are another 32 criminal homicides with a gun. Of the justifiable cases of homicide found that year, only 7.7% were committed by women. These numbers don’t even include the numbers of accidental shootings and suicides that take place each year, but taken altogether, these stats reflect a reality that guns usually only make things worse."

Guns & Rape Prevention: A Dangerous Myth | Orange County Rape Crisis Center

Notice... A 2012 STUDY. Your shit is old. If you tried using that data with true intellectuals they would laugh you out of the building.