So…the defense attorney states the gun was locked? Now what in Michigan case?

[Turtlesoup]

Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.

New Details Emerge as Parents of Accused Michigan School Shooter Formally Arraigned

pjmedia.com

Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.

The prosectutor is a political pig---he is doing this for political points and likely to hamper the evil teens right to legal representation and parental control by locking up the parents in isolation and not even allowing the evil teen to know that they have been locked up.

I get it...i think the evil teen should be killed off as well-----but the prosecutor just violated both his parents and HIS civil rights which will affect the trial. And just a few years ago, would have seen the case tossed and the evil teen walking because of it. The Parents should be able to sue now as well.

 

[Correll]

Your ‘source’ is unreliable, nothing but a ridiculous joke.

“Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies, as well as numerous failed fact checks.”

PJ Media - Bias and Credibility

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Said the man that watched a man denounce w.s. repeatedly and thought he praised them.

 

[Correll]

That is the job of the defense attorney, to say what it takes to get his clients off.

How did Ethan get the gun? Was the gun locked but he had the key? It was his gun after all, his parents got it for him as a Christmas gift. Makes sense they would have given him the key to unlock it.

"Makes sense"?

The prosecution has the job of proving it beyond a reasonable doubt. "makes sense" is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[evenflow1969]

As an American Citizen, cheering for the media/State dissection of fellow citizens' lives is a very, very slippery slope. This kids' parents could be good, upstanding citizens doing their best to raise a child. They could also be abusive, slacker, degenerates. My point is, when driven to achieve political agendas which support highly polarized political narratives, such as gun control, our "elected" officials will stop short of nothing—certainly not character assassination of two mere mortal, everyday peasants. At any time the next American peasant having their entire lives dissected under a national microscope could be you or I.

Absolutely right! I will pass no judgement on the parents what so ever. That is the juries job. This is a tragedy all around I have absolutely no want to add blood or misery to it. We only have so much control over our children the rest is up to them. Unless the parents were involved in the planning or execution of the crime I would rather not see them in jail for the rest of their lives.

 

[surada]

He did not try to kill his parents, neighbors, or anyone else but those in the school who had made his life a nightmare.
So you want to blame the parents?
Makes no sense.
Schools are notoriously bad.
There are several movies about people wanting to shoot teachers because schools are so notoriously bad.

Schools are not notoriously bad and there is zero evidence that Ethan was bullied. Quit watching crap movies.

 

[Rigby5]

This is a lie, a contrivance of the dishonest right.

To advocate for appropriate, lawful firearm regulatory measures consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence is not to be ‘anti-gun.’

Indeed, it’s wrongheaded conservative jurists who have prevented the implementation of such appropriate measures.

For example, laws requiring firearms to be secured when no adult is in the home would be perfectly Constitutional, in no manner interfering with the right to self-defense.

Wrong.
The Constitution does not go into detail or list individual rights.
All the Constitution is supposed to do is delineate jurisdiction between the federal government and all other levels.
And clearly the whole point of the 2nd amendment is to deny any and all federal jurisdiction over firearms.
So any and all federal firearms legislation or regulations are entirely and completely illegal.

Laws requiring firearms to be secured in NYC are fine, since there are not threats there that need universal household access.
But the same is not true in some places in a state like AL, where bears could be a significant hazard, and even those under 18 should have instant access to firearms in emergencies.

So all firearm laws and regulations should be state or local, legally then MUST be.
The Constitution clearly denies any federal jurisdiction over firearms.

 

[Crepitus]

Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.

New Details Emerge as Parents of Accused Michigan School Shooter Formally Arraigned

pjmedia.com

Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.

Are you actually trying to defend these whackos?

 

[Rigby5]

Absolutely right! I will pass no judgement on the parents what so ever. That is the juries job. This is a tragedy all around I have absolutely no want to add blood or misery to it. We only have so much control over our children the rest is up to them. Unless the parents were involved in the planning or execution of the crime I would rather not see them in jail for the rest of their lives.

I would go even further and entirely blame the school.
Almost everyone hated school except a few "teachers pets", and clearly it is the school that is responsible for creating all the anger leading up to this and all other school shooting.
Why do you think there are so many?
So it is the fault of all the parents and not the schools?
That's crazy.
Clearly it is the SCHOOLS who are at fault.

 

[1srelluc]

This is the wrong 2A hill to die on as it looks as if everyone involved but the victims are assholes.

Just let it work it's way through the courts and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Crepitus]

​

​

Several states have so-called CAP (child-access prevention) laws that make it a crime for adults to allow children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Such laws have repeatedly been proposed in Michigan, but the legislature has opted not to enact them. Moreover, while prosecutors insisted, in announcing their involuntary-manslaughter charges, that the pistol should have been locked away, with a safety mechanism clipped in place and the ammunition kept separate, there is no such mandate in state law. And, the passion of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted it would face stiff constitutional challenges.​

​

Now, with the legislature having refused to criminalize the conduct in which the Crumbley parents engaged, the prosecutors — whose actual job is to enforce the legislature’s laws — are attempting in the heat of the moment to criminalize the conduct themselves.​

​

It is one thing to say that the parents were egregiously derelict — just as, for example, store owners are egregiously derelict when they sell to suspicious characters substances (including explosive powders) that can be used to make bombs. But that does not make the parents’ conduct a criminal violation, much less make them responsible for homicide — a much more serious crime, even in the form of involuntary manslaughter, than the CAP crime that Michigan has refused to codify.​

​

The Crumbley parents may be looking at significant civil liability, and deservedly so. But we are not supposed to make criminal law by having prosecutors concoct it on the fly. We should particularly resist prosecutorial creativity in the immediate aftermath of an emotionally charged tragedy such as this one. And when legislatures do codify a crime, it should be calibrated to the wrong actually done by the action or omission, not to the horrific downstream consequences. What happened at Oxford High School may have been foreseeable in some abstract sense, but it was certainly not foreseen in concrete reality.​

​

There is already enough tragedy here. Distorting the law to make it fit our sense of outrage can only make matters immeasurably worse in the long run.​

In Already-Overcharged Michigan H.S. Shooting, Parents Now Charged with Manslaughter | National Review

In the face of public outrage, prosecutors are seeking to write the law rather than enforcing it. Their overreach serves no one’s long-term interests.

www.nationalreview.com

The charges of involuntarily manslaughter are the same charge you can get for handing someone you know is drunk your car keys. There's no written law against that either, but it has been judged to be criminally negligent and led to convictions of manslaughter.

 

[Rigby5]

Schools are not notoriously bad and there is zero evidence that Ethan was bullied. Quit watching crap movies.

I not only went to school but have heard from many others with the same experiences, read many books with the same condemnation of schools, and there are even movies about how bad schools can be or usually are.

Schools are not notoriously bad and there is zero evidence that Ethan was bullied. Quit watching crap movies.

If the teachers and students had not been guilty, then the shooting would not have happened.
It is not like the kid did this for fun or profit.

And schools have always been notoriously bad.
I remember how popular the movie, "If" was in 1968, because it represented the strong resentment kids had toward the obvious bullying by schools.
The movie was about British boarding schools, so was worse than most, but all schools have similar corrupt purposes, to break the individuality out of children, and turn them into bitter soldiers.
And the resulting corruption in society is obvious.
The US has almost no unions, public health care, rent control, or anything at all.
All civilized social safeguards are deliberately gone.
And instead the US has the largest % prison population in the world, mostly for victimless drug crimes that can not even legally be criminalized.

 

[Rigby5]

This is the wrong 2A hill to die on as it looks as if everyone involved but the victims are assholes.

Just let it work it's way through the courts and let the chips fall where they may.

How do we know those shot did not deserve it?

The point is not to let the chips fall where they may, but to make changes so things are better and there is less future violence and unhappiness.
Personally, I blame the schools, since they are the only single constant behind each and every one of these school shootings.
I have never seen a school that was not deliberately cruel and insensitive.

 

[surada]

I not only went to school but have heard from many others with the same experiences, read many books with the same condemnation of schools, and there are even movies about how bad schools can be or usually are.


If the teachers and students had not been guilty, then the shooting would not have happened.
It is not like the kid did this for fun or profit.

And schools have always been notoriously bad.
I remember how popular the movie, "If" was in 1968, because it represented the strong resentment kids had toward the obvious bullying by schools.
The movie was about British boarding schools, so was worse than most, but all schools have similar corrupt purposes, to break the individuality out of children, and turn them into bitter soldiers.
And the resulting corruption in society is obvious.
The US has almost no unions, public health care, rent control, or anything at all.
All civilized social safeguards are deliberately gone.
And instead the US has the largest % prison population in the world, mostly for victimless drug crimes that can not even legally be criminalized.

Ethan was NOT bullied. You are blaming the victims that he murdered..

You didn't go to a boarding school nor a prep school.

 

[surada]

How do we know those shot did not deserve it?

Jesus, you must be a real loser.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

No, it doesnt make sense they would give him a key ....qsk any of the posters here who bought rifles
or shotguns for their kids......the kid uses the gun with supervision.......

Why does it make no sesne since his mother said it was his Christmas gift?

And these parents do not seem to have been that responsible.

 

[1srelluc]

How do we know those shot did not deserve it?

The point is not to let the chips fall where they may, but to make changes so things are better and there is less future violence and unhappiness.
Personally, I blame the schools, since they are the only single constant behind each and every one of these school shootings.
I have never seen a school that was not deliberately cruel and insensitive.

Again, 2A supporters should not touch this one with a 10' pole from what I've read of it so far. It's a waste of recourses.

As far as "making things better" in public schools that's not something that I'm interested in getting involved in. I managed to get my kids though school in one piece (private school) so it's up to the ones currently with kids in public school to "make things better" on their own hook or seek other options such as sacrificing and enrolling their spawn in a private school like I did.....I'm no genius but I could see were public schools were going 30+ years ago.

Nope, not my monkey, not my circus.

 

[Rigby5]

Schools are not notoriously bad and there is zero evidence that Ethan was bullied. Quit watching crap movies.

I not only went to school but have heard from many others with the same experiences, read many books with the same condemnation of schools, and there are even movies about how bad schools can be or usually are.
Watch "If" with Malcolm McDowel.

 

[2aguy]

Are you actually trying to defend these whackos?

I want people to see the whole truth, you moron......assholes like you are making ASSumptions that you have no idea about.........

 

[2aguy]

Why does it make no sesne since his mother said it was his Christmas gift?

And these parents do not seem to have been that responsible.

How do you know? You have barely sourced news accounts....of the same quality as the lies told in the Rittenhouse case...

 

[Harpy Eagle]

How do you know? You have barely sourced news accounts....of the same quality as the lies told in the Rittenhouse case...

Dude, the links for it being a gift for the son have been posted like 50 times. I am not about to do it for you again.

I do not give a flying fuck what you believe, you can vote for them as Parents of the Year for all I care.