Social Security is Not a Ponzi Scheme, Mr. Perry

[Lakhota]

I applaud this debate, but Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme.

Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme? - CBS MoneyWatch.com

 

[uscitizen]

Assets grew from about $47 billion at the end of December 1986 to about $2,609 billion ($2.6 trillion) by the end of December 2010.
Social Security Trust Funds

Now I wonder what happened in the 80's to give congress all of those trust funds to pillage?

 

[flacaltenn]

Toro:

SS is a government bond fund but the liabilities are nontradable government obligations. Every single pension plan in America owns government liabilities, i.e. bonds, but almost all own other things too. SS is 100% invested in government liabilities. That's remarkably inefficient. However, the economics of the liabilities held by SS and held by every other pension plan is the same.

Of course it's inefficient.. But if you can't "make a market in it" -- it's not worth much is it? And to outside investors in Treas products -- it can be ignored. Kinda like MBSecurities a couple years ago.

It's also been a slush fund for hiding overall budget deficits. And I have a personal theory that now that it's no good to them as a surplus, that they are cooking the books by showing SSA receiving a lot more than needs every year to balance it's books.. Why would they do that? Why propagate the fiction that interest is coming back in excess of balance. I think it's because they can charge SSA for the new "fictional" surplus and take it off their general ledger.. Makes the "on the books" deficit look better for that year... Am I crazy or could this be the new strategery for mucking with "off book" program like SS?

I swear these guys will monkey with this in any way they can...

 

[Toro]

Of course it's inefficient.. But if you can't "make a market in it" -- it's not worth much is it? And to outside investors in Treas products -- it can be ignored. Kinda like MBSecurities a couple years ago.

That's not true. Simply because something is illiquid does not mean it doesn't have value. The liabilities in the SS trust are real. It doesn't matter if they can't be sold because they are a liability of the government.

I do think that the government will eventually "default" on those liabilities because they will eventually change the terms of SS, i.e. can't get it until 70, etc. And they should.

 

[Lakhota]

Wall Street can't wait to get their greedy hands on Social Security.

Rick Perry Campaign Refuses To Rule Out Ending Social Security | Election 2012

 

[Charles_Main]

A Ponzi Scheme is an Investment fund, where the Money of New Investors is used to pay the Existing Investors.

By that Definition SS is one. And if we do not reform it, it will be just like other Ponzi schemes, where people make money off it, until the end, and the last group of people who stated paying in, get fucked.

 

[Intense]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCdgv7n9xCY&feature=related]Milton Friedman - The Social Security Myth - YouTube[/ame]
Milton Friedman - The Social Security Myth

 

[Lakhota]

How can anyone believe anything Rick Perry says?

Rick Perry Says It’s ‘Misinformation’ To Suggest He Wants To Abolish Social Security

Perry Campaign Repeats False Claim That Rick Perry Never Said Social Security Is Unconstitutional | ThinkProgress

VIDEO: Rick Perry Vs. Ronald Reagan On Social Security | ThinkProgress

Mitt Romney isn't much better.

FLASHBACK: Mitt Romney Has Consistently Supported The Privatization Of Social Security | ThinkProgress

 

[Lakhota]

Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme | Media Matters for America

 

[saveliberty]

Yet it fits the very definition of a ponzi scheme. I guess that means the definition is wrong. lol

 

[The T]

Yet it fits the very definition of a ponzi scheme. I guess that means the definition is wrong. lol

Socialist Security is a lie. Always has been always will be. Only the gullible belive the Gubment have thier best interest at heart. Had they? It would have never been created. SS is the government treating it's people like children with a piggy bank making the child by force put thier lawn mowing money in the piggy bank. When the child goes to sleep? Mommy/Daddy Gubmint raids it for beer money and slips an IOU in the piggybank.

 

[Lakhota]

Yet it fits the very definition of a ponzi scheme. I guess that means the definition is wrong. lol

Whose "very definition" of a ponzi scheme...?

 

[Charles_Main]

Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme | Media Matters for America

Dude, You realize you lose any Credibility when you use Media Matters as a source right? Perhaps the most one sided, Biased, site on the web. Pretending to be real media people. Might as well be the PR arm of the far left in this country.

 

[saveliberty]

Yet it fits the very definition of a ponzi scheme. I guess that means the definition is wrong. lol

Whose "very definition" of a ponzi scheme...?

Pretty much any dictionary or legal reference. Media Matters is the only nonsubscriber apparently.

 

[Charles_Main]

Yet it fits the very definition of a ponzi scheme. I guess that means the definition is wrong. lol

Whose "very definition" of a ponzi scheme...?

Webster

a fraudulent investment operation that pays quick returns to initial contributors using money from subsequent contributors rather than profit

SS absolutely does use the contributions of new workers to pay for the Initial ones. When anything set up like that fails. It will be the New Investors, (in this case young workers) who will get fucked.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It is to Republicans. Even many on Social Security. Only they don't know it's Social Security. They think it's from "fans".

Social Security is a wonderful idea in theory. In practice, it sucks.
The federal government has been raping the system for decades. Now with just three workers contributing for every person collecting, the system is going broke. By 2025, that ratio will be down to 2 to 1.
The system is broken. To leave it the way it is now is insanity.

 

[The T]

It is to Republicans. Even many on Social Security. Only they don't know it's Social Security. They think it's from "fans".

Social Security is a wonderful idea in theory. In practice, it sucks.
The federal government has been raping the system for decades. Now with just three workers contributing for every person collecting, the system is going broke. By 2025, that ratio will be down to 2 to 1.
The system is broken. To leave it the way it is now is insanity.

Bush and the Republicans should have fought harder when they were bantering about reform. They screwed it up...no wonder they lost the Congress in '06. They let themselves be browbeat by the Statists.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yet it fits the very definition of a ponzi scheme. I guess that means the definition is wrong. lol

Whose "very definition" of a ponzi scheme...?

Webster

a fraudulent investment operation that pays quick returns to initial contributors using money from subsequent contributors rather than profit

SS absolutely does use the contributions of new workers to pay for the Initial ones. When anything set up like that fails. It will be the New Investors, (in this case young workers) who will get fucked.

How many decades do you chicken littles plan on saying that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

OPYDOO:

Here's a list of investments held by the Trust Fund

Investments held at end of month

Did ya miss the disclaimer at the top of the chart???

Today, the trust funds hold only special issues.

Special issues
(available only to the trust funds)

Those are NOT US Treasury Bonds. They are made up intergovernmental transfers that cannot pay a dime without the Treasury actually issuing NEW debt to cover them..

They cannot be transferred. They cannot be SOLD. They are accounting gimmicks in an elaborate fraud to convince poor souls like you that the US can dip into a pot of gold in the "trust fund"...

Please OPYDOODLE --- don't go anywhere NEAR the market. I really worry about you...

Wrong. They are treasury bonds backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.

That they are 'special' is a distinction without a difference.

This is the problem with this issue...a bottomless chasm of ignorance on the Right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That is true but their raiding the social security funds (both parties over history) are what makes it look very similar to a ponzie scheme.

Good point though!

They don't 'raid' it. SS invests its money in treasuries. FOR THE INTEREST INCOME.

whats the current interest rate on the SSI deposits ?

Did you ever look anything up for yourself?