Some Reflective Moderate Positions on 'Controversial' Issues

JimBowie1958

Old Fogey
Sep 25, 2011
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16,767
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Ever since news became entertainment and the media has begun promoting ideological argument to feed that entertainment industry instead of reflective, calm rational discussion, it is almost impossible to find reasonable moderate views expressed anywhere, including the internet.

I know few here will agree with me on these issues, but that is fine, the process of discussing and reflecting on the issues is the whole point.

1. Gun Control
Reasonable regulation is quite Constitutional, but few care to define what is 'reasonable regulation'. For me it is any law or regulation that will have the impact of keeping criminals from using guns while NOT infringing on the rights of lawful persons to have and carry guns. In that spirit, I propose the following:
a. Make mandatory stiff sentences for people that use guns in violent crime, not referring to mere regulatory violations. Presently it seems that people who accidentally cross into a state where their CCWs are not welcome get much harsher sentences than those who rob stores with handguns on average.
b. Focus regulation on the weapon itself and leave the owner out of any long term data storage. Tracking where and when serial numbered weapons are sold seems reasonable, but not recording who was involved. We do not want some future Stalin to use these records to arrest Americans who own firearms. And though no one is proposing this now does not prove that the left wont evolve yet again in this country to do exactly what they have insisted that they never ever intended to do NOW.
c. Recognise the rights of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and others by passing reciprocity among the various states to remove the traps that gun confiscators have laid by targeting people who are only guilty of crossing state lines.

2. Abortion
While I regard life as beginning from conception, in a secular society I do not see my moral objections as a legit basis for outlawing the whole thing. I do believe that secular arguments can be made for protecting life from the moment that life can be measured in terms of the presence of a functioning brain, which I think is around the twelfth week, after that I believe we are talking about another person in the womb from a secular perspective, and not merely tissue. So I would like to see abortion banned after the fourth month, with an exception for rape or incest up to the sixth month. After that the unborn child has obvious personality and activity and should be protected by law, as we actually do have in many cases.

3. Immigration
The laws must be enforced if we are to be a nation of laws and not men. For the children of illegal immigrants who have no memory of having lived anywhere else, I think a special process must be used to allow them to remain in the US while they have their legal status remedied in some fashion by revised law. But on the other hand, the laws should remove instant citizenship for every criminal who comes here to have their child. So end the anchor-baby system by law and deport them upon finding them. Immediately deport any illegals found, and use thje justice system to crimnalize and destroy 'Sanctuary' entioties in this country who are operating in defiance of our laws and Constitution which gives the Federal Executive branch power to enforce our duly passed federal laws.

4. Drug Crimes
The consumption of any materials should not be a crime, even if it results in suicide. If we do n ot have the right to end our own lives then who owns us otherwise? This 'war on drugs' is foolish from the standpoint of consumption of the drugs, so decriminalize it and let people openly get help for their addictions and this will reduce the using populations and the crime they engage in to pay for their addictions.

This would go far faster and further in crushing the narcotics smuggling cartels than a continued fruitless 'war' on drugs.

These are just examples of the kind of thing I am talking about where pragmatic impact is valued over ideology or religion for rational discussion of issues that are fully capable of reasonable compromise and results.

But the way our media presents these issues on a dailyt basis is one ideological extreme vrs the opposite ideological extreme because passionate ranting is more entertaining and thus profitable.

But it is ripping out country apart and needs to stop, somehow.
 
Last edited:
Wow, OldLady and no other moderates or those that appreciate the perspective.

:CryingCow:
 
Ever since news became entertainment and the media has begun promoting ideological argument to feed that entertainment industry instead of reflective, calm rational discussion, it is almost impossible to find reasonable moderate views expressed anywhere, including the internet.

I know few here will agree with me on these issues, but that is fine, the process of discussing and reflecting on the issues is the whole point.

1. Gun Control
Reasonable regulation is quite Constitutional, but few care to define what is 'reasonable regulation'. For me it is any law or regulation that will have the impact of keeping criminals from using guns while NOT infringing on the rights of lawful persons to have and carry guns. In that spirit, I propose the following:
a. Make mandatory stiff sentences for people that use guns in violent crime, not referring to mere regulatory violations. Presently it seems that people who accidentally cross into a state where their CCWs are not welcome get much harsher sentences than those who rob stores with handguns on average.
b. Focus regulation on the weapon itself and leave the owner out of any long term data storage. Tracking where and when serial numbered weapons are sold seems reasonable, but not recording who was involved. We do not want some future Stalin to use these records to arrest Americans who own firearms. And though no one is proposing this now does not prove that the left wont evolve yet again in this country to do exactly what they have insisted that they never ever intended to do NOW.
c. Recognise the rights of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and others by passing reciprocity among the various states to remove the traps that gun confiscators have laid by targeting people who are only guilty of crossing state lines.

2. Abortion
While I regard life as beginning from conception, in a secular society I do not see my moral objections as a legit basis for outlawing the whole thing. I do believe that secular arguments can be made for protecting life from the moment that life can be measured in terms of the presence of a functioning brain, which I think is around the twelfth week, after that I believe we are talking about another person in the womb from a secular perspective, and not merely tissue. So I would like to see abortion banned after the fourth month, with an exception for rape or incest up to the sixth month. After that the unborn child has obvious personality and activity and should be protected by law, as we actually do have in many cases.

3. Immigration
The laws must be enforced if we are to be a nation of laws and not men. For the children of illegal immigrants who have no memory of having lived anywhere else, I think a special process must be used to allow them to remain in the US while they have their legal status remedied in some fashion by revised law. But on the other hand, the laws should remove instant citizenship for every criminal who comes here to have their child. So end the anchor-baby system by law and deport them upon finding them. Immediately deport any illegals found, and use thje justice system to crimnalize and destroy 'Sanctuary' entioties in this country who are operating in defiance of our laws and Constitution which gives the Federal Executive branch power to enforce our duly passed federal laws.

4. Drug Crimes
The consumption of any materials should not be a crime, even if it results in suicide. If we do n ot have the right to end our own lives then who owns us otherwise? This 'war on drugs' is foolish from the standpoint of consumption of the drugs, so decriminalize it and let people openly get help for their addictions and this will reduce the using populations and the crime they engage in to pay for their addictions.

This would go far faster and further in crushing the narcotics smuggling cartels than a continued fruitless 'war' on drugs.

These are just examples of the kind of thing I am talking about where pragmatic impact is valued over ideology or religion for rational discussion of issues that are fully capable of reasonable compromise and results.

But the way our media presents these issues on a dailyt basis is one ideological extreme vrs the opposite ideological extreme because passionate ranting is more entertaining and thus profitable.

But it is ripping out country apart and needs to stop, somehow.

Well thought out, but one element that is not addressed is the protection of children. Should their parents be allowed to use currently illegal drugs in their homes with no restrictions on availability to their children? If anything, the criminal penalties for making drugs (or guns) available to children should be increased.
 
Ever since news became entertainment and the media has begun promoting ideological argument to feed that entertainment industry instead of reflective, calm rational discussion, it is almost impossible to find reasonable moderate views expressed anywhere, including the internet.

I know few here will agree with me on these issues, but that is fine, the process of discussing and reflecting on the issues is the whole point.

1. Gun Control
Reasonable regulation is quite Constitutional, but few care to define what is 'reasonable regulation'. For me it is any law or regulation that will have the impact of keeping criminals from using guns while NOT infringing on the rights of lawful persons to have and carry guns. In that spirit, I propose the following:
a. Make mandatory stiff sentences for people that use guns in violent crime, not referring to mere regulatory violations. Presently it seems that people who accidentally cross into a state where their CCWs are not welcome get much harsher sentences than those who rob stores with handguns on average.
b. Focus regulation on the weapon itself and leave the owner out of any long term data storage. Tracking where and when serial numbered weapons are sold seems reasonable, but not recording who was involved. We do not want some future Stalin to use these records to arrest Americans who own firearms. And though no one is proposing this now does not prove that the left wont evolve yet again in this country to do exactly what they have insisted that they never ever intended to do NOW.
c. Recognise the rights of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and others by passing reciprocity among the various states to remove the traps that gun confiscators have laid by targeting people who are only guilty of crossing state lines.

2. Abortion
While I regard life as beginning from conception, in a secular society I do not see my moral objections as a legit basis for outlawing the whole thing. I do believe that secular arguments can be made for protecting life from the moment that life can be measured in terms of the presence of a functioning brain, which I think is around the twelfth week, after that I believe we are talking about another person in the womb from a secular perspective, and not merely tissue. So I would like to see abortion banned after the fourth month, with an exception for rape or incest up to the sixth month. After that the unborn child has obvious personality and activity and should be protected by law, as we actually do have in many cases.

3. Immigration
The laws must be enforced if we are to be a nation of laws and not men. For the children of illegal immigrants who have no memory of having lived anywhere else, I think a special process must be used to allow them to remain in the US while they have their legal status remedied in some fashion by revised law. But on the other hand, the laws should remove instant citizenship for every criminal who comes here to have their child. So end the anchor-baby system by law and deport them upon finding them. Immediately deport any illegals found, and use thje justice system to crimnalize and destroy 'Sanctuary' entioties in this country who are operating in defiance of our laws and Constitution which gives the Federal Executive branch power to enforce our duly passed federal laws.

4. Drug Crimes
The consumption of any materials should not be a crime, even if it results in suicide. If we do n ot have the right to end our own lives then who owns us otherwise? This 'war on drugs' is foolish from the standpoint of consumption of the drugs, so decriminalize it and let people openly get help for their addictions and this will reduce the using populations and the crime they engage in to pay for their addictions.

This would go far faster and further in crushing the narcotics smuggling cartels than a continued fruitless 'war' on drugs.

These are just examples of the kind of thing I am talking about where pragmatic impact is valued over ideology or religion for rational discussion of issues that are fully capable of reasonable compromise and results.

But the way our media presents these issues on a dailyt basis is one ideological extreme vrs the opposite ideological extreme because passionate ranting is more entertaining and thus profitable.

But it is ripping out country apart and needs to stop, somehow.

Your abortion prohibitions kick in at the exact moment when abortion ceases to be about reproductive choice and all about medical necessity.

Genetic testing of the fetus cannot be completed until 20 weeks and results take 4 to 5 weeks. They ask you to have your decision ready if the results aren’t good.

Abortions which are performed after 20 weeks are the ones which are performed for medical reasons. It for these abortions which must remain legal. Abortion is a matter between a woman and a doctor.

The state has no dog in this hunt.
 
Is there some reason why the OP has to open a discussion of a dozen proposals instead of just one?

I’ve got something to say about each one, but I’m not about to write a book this morning.

Pick one.

Also, why do you extremists feel the need to tell everyone that you don’t expect to get acceptable responses from those who oppose you every time you issue one of these requests for reasonable discussion?
 

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