Spread the Wealth

[glockmail]

the 80% consume MUCH, MUCH MUCH MORE than the few at the top....as said, 280 million people will buy more than the 20 million at the top....no question on that!!!!

I have an engineering degree and you're trying to play percentage games with me.

 

[Bern80]

the 80% consume MUCH, MUCH MUCH MORE than the few at the top....as said, 280 million people will buy more than the 20 million at the top....no question on that!!!!

Which the wealthy can negate fairly quickly by buying a sports cars, yachts, real estate, paying capital gains tax, etc.

 

[Care4all]

I have an engineering degree and you're trying to play percentage games with me.

hahahahahaha! no games being played, just facts....And I'm a mathematical genius and you are trying to play games with me?

Seriously though, you are way off....way way off, if you even think those at the top spend more on buying things than the 280 million rest of us...

 

[glockmail]

....
Seriously though, you are way off....way way off, if you even think those at the top spend more on buying things than the 280 million rest of us...

As a percentage, yes. Bern just explained it for you.

 

[Care4all]

Which the wealthy can negate fairly quickly by buying a sports cars, yachts, real estate, paying capital gains tax, etc.

paying capital gains is not BUYING something and NOOOOOO, the sports cars do not add up to what the 280 million spend on goods.

paying for lawyers and accountants and financial advisers and servants is not buying goods, which is what glock has stated.....not even a close second.

 

[Turboswede]

With the possible exception of booze, smokes and lottery tickets, all of the other items that you listed are basically consumption taxes. Who do you think does most of the consuming?

Um...Social Security Taxes run over 15% on Wages up to 102K (for 2008) and are not a consumption tax.

Most sales taxes that I am aware of are at the State/Local level

 

[glockmail]

Um...Social Security Taxes run over 15% on Wages up to 102K (for 2008) and are not a consumption tax.

....

So someone who makes 100K pays 10 times than someone who makes 10K. Do they get 10 times the benefit?

No its not a consumption tax but it behaves in a similar way so in order to simplify the argument I lumped it in. Don't be so damn picky.

 

[Turboswede]

So someone who makes 100K pays 10 times than someone who makes 10K. Do they get 10 times the benefit?

No its not a consumption tax but it behaves in a similar way so in order to simplify the argument I lumped it in. Don't be so damn picky.

As it is Capped at $102,000 its a regressive tax and as the SSI trust fund is used to fund other budget requirements the SS cap shouldn't matter, its still a 15% flat tax only on peole whe work for a living.

 

[glockmail]

As it is Capped at $102,000 its a regressive tax and as the SSI trust fund is used to fund other budget requirements the SS cap shouldn't matter, its still a 15% flat tax only on peole whe work for a living.

It shouldn't be used to fund other items. Just because the government steals from that fund doesn't mean that the way it is funded should be changed. They should stop stealing from it.

So back to my question, does the guy paying 10 times more into it get ten times the benefit?

 

[Mad Dog]

Democrat - Republican
Liberal - Conservative
ALL Wrong!

It doesn't matter which one is elected, it's all a game, a fight for power by the people in power. Vote all you want, anyway you want and it wont make a difference. It will all stay the same.

Government was designed for infrastructure and security only. Welfare, Social Security, Grants, Loans, etc. are all unconstitutional. Our government gave away our right to a voice in 1912. We have no control and no say so. If you really think about it, Democrats keep saying "Raise taxes on the rich" yet aren't they rich themselves? What about all of these celebrities and millionaires supporting Democrats? If the Democrats were REALLY going to take away money from the rich, why would the rich support them? Because it's not going to happen!

You want fairness? Demand the government stop sending Trillions of dollars of our money to other countries. Demand of our government that they stop spending money on pork projects that are illegal and unconstitutional. By our own laws, every US senator and congressman can be hung for treason. But how can you punish the (rich) people that make the laws? You can't. Don't vote for them? Doesn't matter. There is always another lackey waiting for his/her shot at power. Between Obama and Clinton alone, in the primary, they spent over 1.2 Billion dollars in campaining. If they cared so much for the poor and down trodden, why didn't they just give them half of what they spent? They simply don't care about us, just their precious power.

You want this government and country to work? Limit the federal government to infrastructure and security. Impose an across the board 7% income tax on everyone. No matter how you make it or where you make it. Limit the government to this budget.

The REAL problem is people in this country are to lazy or ignorant to actually do a little research and figure out what the real problem is. The problem is not the rich, the powerful, the poor or the middle class. The problem is you. As long as you decide and allow yourself to be mistreated and taken advantage of, some one will. Our founding fathers started a revolution for what they felt was improper government control and abuses and they had a lot less government control and abuses than we do now. This government is corrupt beyond repair.

I don't have a solution but the solution will definately not be present on November 4th.

Vote "None of the Above"!!!!

 

[Skull Pilot]

paying capital gains is not BUYING something and NOOOOOO, the sports cars do not add up to what the 280 million spend on goods.

paying for lawyers and accountants and financial advisers and servants is not buying goods, which is what glock has stated.....not even a close second.

paying for services is just as contributory to the economy as paying for goods. Sooner or later, someone buys something with that money and the rich folks are buying more and more expensive items and paying more for services.

 

[Turboswede]

It shouldn't be used to fund other items. Just because the government steals from that fund doesn't mean that the way it is funded should be changed. They should stop stealing from it.

So back to my question, does the guy paying 10 times more into it get ten times the benefit?

Confused, are you talking about SS benefits at retirement? I am not exactly how the SSA calculates the benefit amount based on SS contributions.

 

[glockmail]

Confused, are you talking about SS benefits at retirement? I am not exactly how the SSA calculates the benefit amount based on SS contributions.

Yes, I am talking about retirement. Let me answer it for you. The guy who pays in 10 times more doesn't get much more in benefits. In fact at that level most consider it pissing away money. He would receive much more if he was allowed to invest it privately.

Without the feds greedy hands the poor man would benefit as well. If you invested your SS contribution over a 45 year normal working period in a conservative portfolio you would retire with about three times your working income without touching the principle. During your working life you would get to use that capital as leverage for other stable investments, like a house and a vacation home. Plus, when you die your kids would get all that back as part of your estate.

The social security system is the biggest rip off ever perpetrated on a population for so many years. It basically guarantees that the poor will stay that way.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Yes, I am talking about retirement. Let me answer it for you. The guy who pays in 10 times more doesn't get much more in benefits. In fact at that level most consider it pissing away money. He would receive much more if he was allowed to invest it privately.

Without the feds greedy hands the poor man would benefit as well. If you invested your SS contribution over a 45 year normal working period in a conservative portfolio you would retire with about three times your working income without touching the principle. During your working life you would get to use that capital as leverage for other stable investments, like a house and a vacation home. Plus, when you die your kids would get all that back as part of your estate.

The social security system is the biggest rip off ever perpetrated on a population for so many years. It basically guarantees that the poor will stay that way.

Casinos and lotteries also do a good job of keeping the poor, poor. By FAR the largest purchases or lottery tickets are the poorest among us as the largest casino patrons are also lower middle class. It's a good way to make our tax system a little less "progressive" and I fully support their EXPANSION

 

[Zoomie1980]

I realize there are other taxes out there. But it makes sense that they supply the bulk of those as well. They pay more sales tax for starters because they buy more expensive items.

Listen to yourself. You are completely ass backwards. You're complaining that people aren't paying enough taxes. Should the idea be to find ways for everybody to pay less taxes? Shouldn't the idea be to get government to actually stick to a budget and spend less?

I think the results of last spring's "stimulus" checks is a classic example of why Obama's plan could never work as intended. The stimulus checks did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to get people to start spending again. Most middle class Americans are so far in debt that anything extra from the government is going to service DEBT, not buy anything!

Obama isn't proposing ANY cut of ANY kind. He is merely taking money out the pockets of the only people in the country willing to spend it on goods and services and moving it to people who will do NOTHING but pay bills! The end result is he will suck EVEN MORE money out of the overall consumer economy to a NEGATIVE result.

What the economy needs is more CONSUMERISM. People need to buy houses and cars again. The only people in the country capable of doing that are the targets of his policy! It simply MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE!!!

 

[glockmail]

Casinos and lotteries also do a good job of keeping the poor, poor. By FAR the largest purchases or lottery tickets are the poorest among us as the largest casino patrons are also lower middle class. It's a good way to make our tax system a little less "progressive" and I fully support their EXPANSION

Yes I agree. Gambling is a foolish waste of time and money which is why fools gamble. However they do it freely, by choice, and hurt only themselves.

 

[Care4all]

Yes I agree. Gambling is a foolish waste of time and money which is why fools gamble. However they do it freely, by choice, and hurt only themselves.

While helping YOU....right?!

 

[Care4all]

I think the results of last spring's "stimulus" checks is a classic example of why Obama's plan could never work as intended. The stimulus checks did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to get people to start spending again. Most middle class Americans are so far in debt that anything extra from the government is going to service DEBT, not buy anything!

Obama isn't proposing ANY cut of ANY kind. He is merely taking money out the pockets of the only people in the country willing to spend it on goods and services and moving it to people who will do NOTHING but pay bills! The end result is he will suck EVEN MORE money out of the overall consumer economy to a NEGATIVE result.

What the economy needs is more CONSUMERISM. People need to buy houses and cars again. The only people in the country capable of doing that are the targets of his policy! It simply MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE!!!

zoomie,
yeah, you are soo right....those 20 million of the wealthiest in this country who have the money to SPEND ALREADY are doing a GREAT JOB of keeping the economy going...

6300 homes EACH AND EVERY DAY, are going in to foreclosure....

care

 

[glockmail]

While helping YOU....right?!

First, I use as few government services as possible. That's call that my "guv'mint footprint". Second, I support all freedoms, including the freedom to destroy yourself, as long as you do it in such a way to cause minimal inconvenience to society.

 

[glockmail]

zoomie,
yeah, you are soo right....those 20 million of the wealthiest in this country who have the money to SPEND ALREADY are doing a GREAT JOB of keeping the economy going...

6300 homes EACH AND EVERY DAY, are going in to foreclosure....

care

Blame the wealthy for indiscretions of the poor.