Stalin, Communism and the left wing

[CrusaderFrank]

Stalin, Communist dictator, but a right winger

Mao, Communist dictator, but another darn right winger

Hitler, Fascist dictator and, another darn right winger

Americas Founding fathers favored individual liberty and knowing how those darn right wing dictators were, a Constitutionally limited government.

OK, when can I stop standing on my head?

 

[Discombobulated]

Stalin, Communist dictator, but a right winger

Mao, Communist dictator, but another darn right winger

Hitler, Fascist dictator and, another darn right winger

Americas Founding fathers favored individual liberty and knowing how those darn right wing dictators were, a Constitutionally limited government.

OK, when can I stop standing on my head?

Constitutionally limited government has nothing to do with being right wing.

 

[Bfgrn]

This Mao?

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

"Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads."
Combat Liberalism



This Stalin?

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

I don't see anything contradictory in a communist attacking liberalism. Do you?

As for Stalin being a conservative....the dateline says 1927. Their perspective might be a little....um....premature.

There were 2 factions of the communist party in Russia. Stalin led the right wing camp and Trotsky led the left wing camp.

Right now the American left the progressive are hell bent on taking away the rights of All Americans
The right to work the right to make their own choices for their own lives. My opinion is that no one should be allowed to have that much power over individuals. So stop comparing Stalin to the good guys in America, the left progressives have more in common with Stalin than the right does. Just look at all the murder caused by progressive gun laws.

The right to work? Please explain...

The right to make choices for their own lives? Do you mean like a woman to have the choice to decide what she wants to do with her uterus?

Stalin was a huge believer in Darwinism...survival of the fittest...that is EXACTLY what were hear every day from conservatives in America...

progressive agenda of taxes have killed many jobs in America taking away jobs ( killing a persons right to work) forcing them on the government plantation.

What a pile of horseshit. The progressive tax code on nominal income Obama proposed means if you make $250,001, you pay ONE NICKEL more in taxes. The conservative agenda on taxes has cost this country more than just jobs...the conservative 'borrow and spend' policy has created MASSIVE DEBT.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't see anything contradictory in a communist attacking liberalism. Do you?

As for Stalin being a conservative....the dateline says 1927. Their perspective might be a little....um....premature.

There were 2 factions of the communist party in Russia. Stalin led the right wing camp and Trotsky led the left wing camp.

Right now the American left the progressive are hell bent on taking away the rights of All Americans
The right to work the right to make their own choices for their own lives. My opinion is that no one should be allowed to have that much power over individuals. So stop comparing Stalin to the good guys in America, the left progressives have more in common with Stalin than the right does. Just look at all the murder caused by progressive gun laws.

The right to work? Please explain...

The right to make choices for their own lives? Do you mean like a woman to have the choice to decide what she wants to do with her uterus?

Stalin was a huge believer in Darwinism...survival of the fittest...that is EXACTLY what were hear every day from conservatives in America...

progressive agenda of taxes have killed many jobs in America taking away jobs ( killing a persons right to work) forcing them on the government plantation.

What a pile of horseshit. The progressive tax code on nominal income Obama proposed means if you make $250,001, you pay ONE NICKEL more in taxes. The conservative agenda on taxes has cost this country more than just jobs...the conservative 'borrow and spend' policy has created MASSIVE DEBT.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

I don't care if you think it's a pile of horse shit. it's true. Why should a company stay here and pay out of the ass in taxes when they can go else where and make a profit by not paying a high tax?

 

[Bfgrn]

There were 2 factions of the communist party in Russia. Stalin led the right wing camp and Trotsky led the left wing camp.

Right now the American left the progressive are hell bent on taking away the rights of All Americans
The right to work the right to make their own choices for their own lives. My opinion is that no one should be allowed to have that much power over individuals. So stop comparing Stalin to the good guys in America, the left progressives have more in common with Stalin than the right does. Just look at all the murder caused by progressive gun laws.

The right to work? Please explain...

The right to make choices for their own lives? Do you mean like a woman to have the choice to decide what she wants to do with her uterus?

Stalin was a huge believer in Darwinism...survival of the fittest...that is EXACTLY what were hear every day from conservatives in America...

progressive agenda of taxes have killed many jobs in America taking away jobs ( killing a persons right to work) forcing them on the government plantation.

What a pile of horseshit. The progressive tax code on nominal income Obama proposed means if you make $250,001, you pay ONE NICKEL more in taxes. The conservative agenda on taxes has cost this country more than just jobs...the conservative 'borrow and spend' policy has created MASSIVE DEBT.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

I don't care if you think it's a pile of horse shit. it's true. Why should a company stay here and pay out of the ass in taxes when they can go else where and make a profit by not paying a high tax?

You are mixing personal taxes with corporate taxes. When Republicans had control of both houses of Congress and the White House for almost a decade, WHAT did they do to lower corporate tax rates? The answer is ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING...

Obama proposed lowering corporate tax rates, and closing loopholes. But do you know WHY corporations reject it? Because those loopholes allow corporations in America to pay LESS or NO taxes than any other country.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Right now the American left the progressive are hell bent on taking away the rights of All Americans
The right to work the right to make their own choices for their own lives. My opinion is that no one should be allowed to have that much power over individuals. So stop comparing Stalin to the good guys in America, the left progressives have more in common with Stalin than the right does. Just look at all the murder caused by progressive gun laws.

The right to work? Please explain...

The right to make choices for their own lives? Do you mean like a woman to have the choice to decide what she wants to do with her uterus?

Stalin was a huge believer in Darwinism...survival of the fittest...that is EXACTLY what were hear every day from conservatives in America...

progressive agenda of taxes have killed many jobs in America taking away jobs ( killing a persons right to work) forcing them on the government plantation.

What a pile of horseshit. The progressive tax code on nominal income Obama proposed means if you make $250,001, you pay ONE NICKEL more in taxes. The conservative agenda on taxes has cost this country more than just jobs...the conservative 'borrow and spend' policy has created MASSIVE DEBT.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

I don't care if you think it's a pile of horse shit. it's true. Why should a company stay here and pay out of the ass in taxes when they can go else where and make a profit by not paying a high tax?

You are mixing personal taxes with corporate taxes. When Republicans had control of both houses of Congress and the White House for almost a decade, WHAT did they do to lower corporate tax rates? The answer is ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING...

Obama proposed lowering corporate tax rates, and closing loopholes. But do you know WHY corporations reject it? Because those loopholes allow corporations in America to pay LESS or NO taxes than any other country.

No one said anything about personal taxes stop insinuating that anyone did.

 

[thanatos144]

Ok first clear one thing up the United States of America is a constitutional republic not a representative democracy the rule of law. Meaning the Constitution is the highest rule in the land not who we elect to Office. Second socialism is left of center and Hitler Stalin Mao and every communist socialist fascist dictator in the world were all left of center

Tapatalk

 

[regent]

Stalin, Communist dictator, but a right winger

Mao, Communist dictator, but another darn right winger

Hitler, Fascist dictator and, another darn right winger

Americas Founding fathers favored individual liberty and knowing how those darn right wing dictators were, a Constitutionally limited government.

OK, when can I stop standing on my head?

So was the Declaration of Independence a left or right wing document?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Which things did Mao do that makes you say he was left wing?

Because his idiotic attempts at enforcing communist social and economic policies cost the lives of tens of millions of people.

Er.... you haven't said anything. You've just put a few words together, it doesn't make me think you know a single thing about Mao and Chinese Maoist (supposed) Communism. Anyone can do that.

Why were his policies "communist social and economic policies"? Just because he was in the Communist Party? Is this what you're trying to claim? So if he had put up the Republican Party policies under the banner of the Communist Party this would have been "communist social and economic policies"?

What is this, primary school Mao or what?

 

[The Germans are coming]

Nope.

The way I see the world there are only to forms of government: Democracy and Tyranny.

if it is a right wing tyranny or left wing tyranny doesnt make a difference to me, it still is tyranny.

It is, but whether you would live longer or be better off depnds very much on the nature of the tyranny.

Someone from a minority race would always be better off in a left-wing tyranny than right-wing; someone from the upper classes generally better off in a right-wing system that favoured the existing aristocracy. A Christian would be safer in a Fascist environment; an academic safe in neither.

Are you serious?

Tell that to the wealthy who lived in imperial Russia.

Like it or not, these wealthy people who had their property taken from them and were executed were a minority.

Tell that to the Tatars, the Usbeks, the Don Cossacks, the Kazahrs, the Lithuanians, the Ukrainians, the Turkmen and the Dagestanis.

All of whom were ethnic minorities who sufferd enormously under the communist Soviet union.

Up to 10 million Ukrainians were purposly starved to death by Stalin who also deported millions of Tatars, Usbeks, Don Cossacks and Dagestanis into Siberia.

No.

Ethnic minorities are often people who defend their cultural heritage and tradition.

The Soviet Union saw that cultural heritage as a primitive symbol of the reactionary impiral Russia and therefor tried to destroy it.

Besides all that the Soviet Union simply pursuied the same geo political goals as imperial Russia did.

 

[The Germans are coming]

Nope.

The way I see the world there are only to forms of government: Democracy and Tyranny.

if it is a right wing tyranny or left wing tyranny doesnt make a difference to me, it still is tyranny.

Well the US isn't democracy, so that makes it what?

It is a constitutional republic.

You are nitpicking and know exactly what i mean.

Nations that have a democratic system of power - electorate - legislature - change of power through civic means by the people and government for the people.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is a constitutional republic.

You are nitpicking and know exactly what i mean.

Nations that have a democratic system of power - electorate - legislature - change of power through civic means by the people and government for the people.

I see how you want to believe it exists.

In the USSR they had voting. You voted at one level, then the people who were voted went to the next level and voted for people who went to the next level and so on.

The US Senate, you vote based on state, not on size of population. Wyoming with 500,000 people has the same say as California with 38 million. 121,000 people voted for Mike Enzi of Wyoming to sit in the Senate. 7.7 million voted for Diane Feinstein in California 2 years previously. The loser in that race got 38 times more votes than the winner in Wyoming.

Is this Democracy?

In the House you have Gerrymandering going on all over the place. One Democrat has had to move house THREE times because every time he moves the Republicans Gerrymander his district and move his house out of his district.
In 2012 the Democrats got 48.9% of the votes compared to 47.7% for the Republicans but had 33 seats less.

Is this Democracy?

For president it's more or less the same.

The worst is, people feel unable to vote for smaller parties. 127 million people vote for dem or rep, and about 2 million voted elsewhere. Is this democracy where people feel they can't vote smaller parties?

The amount of money spent, $7 billion on elections, all spent on advertising paid for by big business in a large part, in order to do the bidding of big business.

I'd say there is the appearance of democracy, just as you could make out the appearance of democracy in the USSR, but I'd say in both Democracy was/is well and truly DEAD.

 

[elektra]

Stalin, Communism, Socialism, Liberals, Democrats, and the National Socialists German Workers Party (NAZI's).


Yes, the American Socialists, the Democrats are no different than Stalin or other socialists, such as Hitler.

Socialists literally destroy the World, from famine to extreme pollution, Socialism is the disease.

Socialism needs to be eradicated, destroyed, like a weed, like a disease.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Stalin, Communist dictator, but a right winger

Mao, Communist dictator, but another darn right winger

Hitler, Fascist dictator and, another darn right winger

Americas Founding fathers favored individual liberty and knowing how those darn right wing dictators were, a Constitutionally limited government.

OK, when can I stop standing on my head?

Constitutionally limited government has nothing to do with being right wing.

Tell me more!

What does your great Intellect tell you?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Stalin, Communist dictator, but a right winger

Mao, Communist dictator, but another darn right winger

Hitler, Fascist dictator and, another darn right winger

Americas Founding fathers favored individual liberty and knowing how those darn right wing dictators were, a Constitutionally limited government.

OK, when can I stop standing on my head?

So was the Declaration of Independence a left or right wing document?

right wing

 

[frigidweirdo]

Stalin, Communism, Socialism, Liberals, Democrats, and the National Socialists German Workers Party (NAZI's).


Yes, the American Socialists, the Democrats are no different than Stalin or other socialists, such as Hitler.

Socialists literally destroy the World, from famine to extreme pollution, Socialism is the disease.

Socialism needs to be eradicated, destroyed, like a weed, like a disease.

Have you got your anger out of your system now?

This, however, is a debate board and not an anger management program.

 

[The Germans are coming]

Stalin, Communism, Socialism, Liberals, Democrats, and the National Socialists German Workers Party (NAZI's).


Yes, the American Socialists, the Democrats are no different than Stalin or other socialists, such as Hitler.

Socialists literally destroy the World, from famine to extreme pollution, Socialism is the disease.

Socialism needs to be eradicated, destroyed, like a weed, like a disease.

Jawohl mein Führer!

 

[Roadrunner]

During the past week or so, there has been a fascinating discussion on the thread 'Hitler, Fascism and the right wing'.

Fascinating largely because quite a few extremely right-wing posters argued against the classic dictionary definition of Fascism of being an extreme right-wing ideology, and instead attempt to define it as being socialist. This proved particularly challenging in economies such as Franco's Spain, Antonesu's Romania and Ustache Croatia, which embodied right-wing ideals of partnership with the church, capitalism and an emphasis on tradition and historical greatness.

I thought it might now be interesting to move on to the left wing.

There have been a LOT of left-wing dictatorships, but I think the Cold War regimes of USSR, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Mao's China, Ho Chi Minh's Viet Nam and FSLN Nicaragua make for interesting discussion. There is also modern day Belarus and North Korea to consider.

What is your opinion of these regimes, and what differences do you see between them?

Does anyone see anything at all positive in left-wing extremism?

Yes, it is the only way to bitchslap a people two centuries forward in a generation or two.

I believe it served a great purpose in Russia, China, and Vietnam, and the time for it is long passed.

 

[Roadrunner]

The US is a democratic representative Republic which - at present - is strongly influenced by both its business and populist factions.

So.... this is a polite way of saying democracy is almost dead or totally dead?

We never were, aren't, and never will be a democracy.

 

[Roadrunner]

There were 2 factions of the communist party in Russia. Stalin led the right wing camp and Trotsky led the left wing camp.

Right now the American left the progressive are hell bent on taking away the rights of All Americans
The right to work the right to make their own choices for their own lives. My opinion is that no one should be allowed to have that much power over individuals. So stop comparing Stalin to the good guys in America, the left progressives have more in common with Stalin than the right does. Just look at all the murder caused by progressive gun laws.

The right to work? Please explain...

The right to make choices for their own lives? Do you mean like a woman to have the choice to decide what she wants to do with her uterus?

Stalin was a huge believer in Darwinism...survival of the fittest...that is EXACTLY what were hear every day from conservatives in America...

progressive agenda of taxes have killed many jobs in America taking away jobs ( killing a persons right to work) forcing them on the government plantation.

What a pile of horseshit. The progressive tax code on nominal income Obama proposed means if you make $250,001, you pay ONE NICKEL more in taxes. The conservative agenda on taxes has cost this country more than just jobs...the conservative 'borrow and spend' policy has created MASSIVE DEBT.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

I don't care if you think it's a pile of horse shit. it's true. Why should a company stay here and pay out of the ass in taxes when they can go else where and make a profit by not paying a high tax?

Or, paying illiterate unskilled labor an unrealistic minimum wage.