Stop Lying Republicans, The Majority of The American People Are IN Favor of Obamacare

[sfcalifornia]

No, it is not time to move on. Not for all of us.

Good for you for being able to keep your plan. Too many other people haven't been so lucky thanks to O-care.

You go ahead and move on. Those of us seeing and feeling the negative effects will keep protesting. It's never too late to stand up for what is important to us.

And those of us who object to "the ends justify the means" way in which a briefly held Democrat majority played parliamentary tricks to get around a nation yelling "slow down", we will continue to protest.

Obama has successfully shown one thing -- that the more expansive government he favors is too big. Even with good intentions, abuses occur. This is the perfect moment for those of us who warned from the beginning about this boondoggle to stand up and say, "This is what we were talking about."

Eternal vigilance is the key. Took longer than it should have, but Obama has made the case for curbing the expansion of government and we're trumpeting it to the world. Well, some of us are just trumpeting it to forums like this. But Ted Cruz and a few other brave individuals are trumpeting it to the nation, and you're here talking about it. So we're doing something right.

Curious to know what negative effects you personally have experienced so far from the implementation of Obamacare.

Our deductibles increased. I can't prove it is because of O-Care. We didn't get a letter attributing the increase to O-care the way some others have.

I care more about the principle. If our policy stayed exactly the same, I would still object to the way O-care was lied and backdoored into law and to the media complicity which allowed this to happen.

The lack of accountability from the media is the scariest thing of all. A vital, non-shilling press is imperative to protect our democratic principles.

But other than the increase in your deductible which may or may not be attributed to Obamacare, you've noticed no other change so far?

I've suffered no changes so far except a lower premium.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I want the Republicans to embrace it. 100%..... But make the Democrats own it and follow it; to the letter.

No exemptions, no extensions. implement it as planned and watch the votes on the left melt away.....

Good point, Ollie. If the GOP is right that the voters dislike Obamacare the more they find out about it then let it go into effect and the GOP can subsequently reap the rewards at the ballot box in 2014 and 2016.

The problem is, the dangers of dependency are insidious and not easily corrected. Would you offer the same advice to someone considering taking up a heroin habit?

Who would ever have guessed that having health insurance would become an addiction? All that time and effort marketing corn syrup laden big gulps and cholestoral laden burgers and cheese fries down the drain because people can now have annual physicals and lead healthier lifestyles. You just can't ever be sure of the 'unintended consequences' and this one must be a doozy.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I want the Republicans to embrace it. 100%..... But make the Democrats own it and follow it; to the letter.

No exemptions, no extensions. implement it as planned and watch the votes on the left melt away.....

Good point, Ollie. If the GOP is right that the voters dislike Obamacare the more they find out about it then let it go into effect and the GOP can subsequently reap the rewards at the ballot box in 2014 and 2016.

There is certainly a "civl war" in the republican party about how best to get rid of Obamacare. One part of the republican party DOES say we should implement Obamacare for the reasons you cited. The other part is worried for the reason dblack just gave. Not all republicans agree on the methodology of removing Obamacare even though they all agree with the goal.

Speaking as an Independent it strikes me that Ollie is on the right track because that has the least negative political fallout for the GOP. If they go with plan A and wreck the economy as the means of terminating Obamacare they risk a political backlash at the polls in 2014. Under Ollie's suggestion the GOP can just sit back and watch the "train wreck" deliver them majorities in both houses and the Oval office in 2016. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[SFC Ollie]

the executive branch is exempt from obamacare?

The legislative branch is exempt from obamacare?

The judicial branch is exempt from obamacare?

Why?

====================

as a kid in the us army, i learned the principle of leadership by example.

As a noncom or officer in the field...

You did not sleep until your troops slept...

You did not eat until your troops ate...

You did not ask your troops to do anything that you would not or could not do yourself...

So, if obamacare is so phukking great...

Why are our leaders not leading by example?

Why are they not the first ones to take the obamacare plunge?

Rather than setting themselves up like a privileged class?

Rather than do-as-i-say-and-not-as-i-do?

Rather than being too chickenshit to take their turn on the point once in a while?

For that reason alone, obamacare deserves to die.

hua

 

[Amelia]

If the media had sufficiently challenged Obama in 2008, he would not have won. If the media had reported on Obama's lies after 2008 and the realities of Obamacare's implications, he would not have won reelection.

Well, he might have won reelection anyway, because if the media had reported responsibly he would have pivoted to something more palatable to the nation.

But either way, if his deceptions and broken promises had been given an appropriate airing by a responsible media we wouldn't be saddled with Obamacare now.

To be fair, Amelia, McCain threw away the 2008 election when he panicked over the economic collapse. Instead of taking charge and telling everyone that the problem was under control (even when it wasn't) he failed to show leadership in a crisis. Couple that with it happening under an unpopular (by that stage) incumbent of the same party and McCain was playing catch up from there to the finish line. No amount of media attention on Obama would have altered the perception that McCain had made on the voting public during that crisis in my opinion.

And speaking of never allowing a good crisis go to waste Romney dropped the ball with Hurricane Sandy too. He should have made the time and effort for the photo ops and been standing shoulder to shoulder with Christie looking out for the people who had lost their homes. By ceding the platform to Obama he failed to show leadership in a crisis. That perception hurt him too.

If the media had sufficiently challenged Obama, then we might be dealing with President Clinton now. We still wouldn't be dealing with President Obama.

JMO.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What a statist- mob rule tool you are.

The GOP majority in the House is exactly according to the design of government specified by the Founders in the Constitution.

I don't recall the Founding Fathers including gerrymandering of districts in the Constitution.

You mean like the Dem's have been doing for 60 years?
It's the only way that they got Feinstien, Pelosi and Rangle in the first place and has continued to keep them there.

But of course I do. Elbridge Gerry was the Dem who instituted the practice back in 1812.

 

[Amelia]

Curious to know what negative effects you personally have experienced so far from the implementation of Obamacare.

Our deductibles increased. I can't prove it is because of O-Care. We didn't get a letter attributing the increase to O-care the way some others have.

I care more about the principle. If our policy stayed exactly the same, I would still object to the way O-care was lied and backdoored into law and to the media complicity which allowed this to happen.

The lack of accountability from the media is the scariest thing of all. A vital, non-shilling press is imperative to protect our democratic principles.

But other than the increase in your deductible which may or may not be attributed to Obamacare, you've noticed no other change so far?

I've suffered no changes so far except a lower premium.

Beyond increase in expense I have noticed no other change yet in my family's coverage. And no change in my family's income. Plenty of change from my friends and across the nation.

But even if my friends were not experiencing greater costs and loss of medical services, I would still object on principle because of how this was enacted. The groundswell of objection to the process was so loud that liberal Massachusetts sent a Republican to fill the Kennedy senate vacancy but Obama, Pelosi and Reid didn't give a damn what the objections were. They just condescendingly said that we'd be on board with it after we let them educate us about how wrong we were.

Well, we're not on board. The nation is not on board. The majority disapprove of the legislation, just as we have done since 2009.

Even if Obama handed me $200 a month I wouldn't approve of the deceptions and undemocratic arrogance which made this happen, and I would object to what the expansion of bureaucracy means for the future of this nation.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If the media had sufficiently challenged Obama in 2008, he would not have won. If the media had reported on Obama's lies after 2008 and the realities of Obamacare's implications, he would not have won reelection.

Well, he might have won reelection anyway, because if the media had reported responsibly he would have pivoted to something more palatable to the nation.

But either way, if his deceptions and broken promises had been given an appropriate airing by a responsible media we wouldn't be saddled with Obamacare now.

To be fair, Amelia, McCain threw away the 2008 election when he panicked over the economic collapse. Instead of taking charge and telling everyone that the problem was under control (even when it wasn't) he failed to show leadership in a crisis. Couple that with it happening under an unpopular (by that stage) incumbent of the same party and McCain was playing catch up from there to the finish line. No amount of media attention on Obama would have altered the perception that McCain had made on the voting public during that crisis in my opinion.

And speaking of never allowing a good crisis go to waste Romney dropped the ball with Hurricane Sandy too. He should have made the time and effort for the photo ops and been standing shoulder to shoulder with Christie looking out for the people who had lost their homes. By ceding the platform to Obama he failed to show leadership in a crisis. That perception hurt him too.

If the media had sufficiently challenged Obama, then we might be dealing with President Clinton now. We still wouldn't be dealing with President Obama.

JMO.

Excellent point, Amelia. But if she was in the Whitehouse don't you think that she would have pushed "Hilarycare" through Congress? By my recollection that was single-payer which would have created an even bigger fight and we would still have compromised on the 1994 Republican version that subsequently became known as Obamacare. Instead it would have been branded as "Hilarycare" and it would probably have looked much the same as it does today. At least that is my opinion but I could be wrong. (Been known to happen often enough. ) What do you think?

 

[Amelia]

To be fair, Amelia, McCain threw away the 2008 election when he panicked over the economic collapse. Instead of taking charge and telling everyone that the problem was under control (even when it wasn't) he failed to show leadership in a crisis. Couple that with it happening under an unpopular (by that stage) incumbent of the same party and McCain was playing catch up from there to the finish line. No amount of media attention on Obama would have altered the perception that McCain had made on the voting public during that crisis in my opinion.

And speaking of never allowing a good crisis go to waste Romney dropped the ball with Hurricane Sandy too. He should have made the time and effort for the photo ops and been standing shoulder to shoulder with Christie looking out for the people who had lost their homes. By ceding the platform to Obama he failed to show leadership in a crisis. That perception hurt him too.

If the media had sufficiently challenged Obama, then we might be dealing with President Clinton now. We still wouldn't be dealing with President Obama.

JMO.

Excellent point, Amelia. But if she was in the Whitehouse don't you think that she would have pushed "Hilarycare" through Congress? By my recollection that was single-payer which would have created an even bigger fight and we would still have compromised on the 1994 Republican version that subsequently became known as Obamacare. Instead it would have been branded as "Hilarycare" and it would probably have looked much the same as it does today. At least that is my opinion but I could be wrong. (Been known to happen often enough. ) What do you think?

I have to think Hillary would have paid more attention to the economy in her first year in office. I am compelled to think that because I am still confounded as to how anyone would have thought it was a good idea to push through such a huge uncertainty-laden bureaucratic mess in such a fragile economy. I also think that had Hillary decided to go after a massive Hillarycare in her first year, then when it received the blowback of the level which resulted in Massachusetts electing a Republican to fill Kennedy's seat, she would have had the self-preservation instinct to accept the moderate idea of doing something smaller -- going for the pieces where bipartisan agreement was possible.

What Obama did was just inconceivably illogical and the only reason he was rewarded for it was because he was such a historical phenomenon and the media (eta: and his party of course) had so much invested in helping him to claim a success ... even if what he claimed success for was like what he campaigned on in name only.

But basically, I think Hillary would have been more practical, both about prioritizing strengthening the economy and about how she worked with the few remaining moderate elements of Congress to craft legislation palatable to a majority.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If the media had sufficiently challenged Obama, then we might be dealing with President Clinton now. We still wouldn't be dealing with President Obama.

JMO.

Excellent point, Amelia. But if she was in the Whitehouse don't you think that she would have pushed "Hilarycare" through Congress? By my recollection that was single-payer which would have created an even bigger fight and we would still have compromised on the 1994 Republican version that subsequently became known as Obamacare. Instead it would have been branded as "Hilarycare" and it would probably have looked much the same as it does today. At least that is my opinion but I could be wrong. (Been known to happen often enough. ) What do you think?

I have to think Hillary would have paid more attention to the economy in her first year in office. I am compelled to think that because I am still confounded as to how anyone would have thought it was a good idea to push through such a huge uncertainty-laden bureaucratic mess in such a fragile economy. I also think that had Hillary decided to go after a massive Hillarycare in her first year, then when it received the blowback of the level which resulted in Massachusetts electing a Republic to fill Kennedy's seat, she would have had the self-preservation instinct to accept the moderate idea of doing something smaller -- going for the pieces where bipartisan agreement was possible.

What Obama did was just inconceivably illogical and the only reason he was rewarded for it was because he was such a historical phenomenon and the media had so much invested in helping him to claim a success ... even if what he claimed success for was like what he campaigned on in name only.

But basically, I think Hillary would have been more practical, both about prioritizing strengthening the economy and about how she worked with the few remaining moderate elements of Congress to craft legislation palatable to a majority.

While I do believe that Hilary would have been just as much of a "historical phenomenon" as Obama I tend agree that she would have been far more pragmatic. Bill was the master of putting together compromises that passed both houses and I believe that Hilary would have been just as effective if not even more so. Who knows, we might even have had a thriving economy on our hands by now.

 

[Amelia]

While I do believe that Hilary would have been just as much of a "historical phenomenon" as Obama I tend agree that she would have been far more pragmatic. Bill was the master of putting together compromises that passed both houses and I believe that Hilary would have been just as effective if not even more so. Who knows, we might even have had a thriving economy on our hands by now.

There's a good chance we would have. I think she would have put the inevitable stimulus to better use.

 

[Vox]

Good point, Ollie. If the GOP is right that the voters dislike Obamacare the more they find out about it then let it go into effect and the GOP can subsequently reap the rewards at the ballot box in 2014 and 2016.

There is certainly a "civl war" in the republican party about how best to get rid of Obamacare. One part of the republican party DOES say we should implement Obamacare for the reasons you cited. The other part is worried for the reason dblack just gave. Not all republicans agree on the methodology of removing Obamacare even though they all agree with the goal.

Speaking as an Independent it strikes me that Ollie is on the right track because that has the least negative political fallout for the GOP. If they go with plan A and wreck the economy as the means of terminating Obamacare they risk a political backlash at the polls in 2014. Under Ollie's suggestion the GOP can just sit back and watch the "train wreck" deliver them majorities in both houses and the Oval office in 2016. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

except the major provision of Ollie's proposal is - NO EXEMPTIONS. which is not happening.

 

[dblack]

There is certainly a "civl war" in the republican party about how best to get rid of Obamacare. One part of the republican party DOES say we should implement Obamacare for the reasons you cited. The other part is worried for the reason dblack just gave. Not all republicans agree on the methodology of removing Obamacare even though they all agree with the goal.

Speaking as an Independent it strikes me that Ollie is on the right track because that has the least negative political fallout for the GOP. If they go with plan A and wreck the economy as the means of terminating Obamacare they risk a political backlash at the polls in 2014. Under Ollie's suggestion the GOP can just sit back and watch the "train wreck" deliver them majorities in both houses and the Oval office in 2016. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

except the major provision of Ollie's proposal is - NO EXEMPTIONS. which is not happening.

And never will. Exemptions, incentives, credits, penalties, surcharges, etc, etc... are the heart and soul corporatist government. They are the entire point of these kinds of programs. Everybody gets a different deal depending on how much political influence they have. Congress designed it that way deliberately to enhance their own power.

 

[Politico]

Had he run on Obamacare in 2008, he never would have been elected.

He did run on Obamacare in 2008.

If you found yourself surprised that he pursued a universal health plan once in office, perhaps you should've paid attention during the campaign.

No the pile of shit we're standing in now is nothing like the description he gave back then.

Well I see we have another successful marctrollroll happening.

Carry on.....

 

[Greenbeard]

No the pile of shit we're standing in now is nothing like the description he gave back then.

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Health Care

Guaranteed issue rules, essential health benefits, subsidies for private insurance, administrative simplification, an exchange through which to buy insurance, an employer mandate, a small business tax credit, extension of dependent coverage, room for state innovation, care coordination and disease management, transparency of prices and quality indicators, value-based purchasing, electronic health records.

Yeah, the Affordable Care Act looks nothing like any of that!

 

[Pasco08]

I think Obamacare needs changed just not sure how. Healthcare Reform was needed desperately.

 

[dblack]

No the pile of shit we're standing in now is nothing like the description he gave back then.

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Health Care

Guaranteed issue rules, essential health benefits, subsidies for private insurance, administrative simplification, an exchange through which to buy insurance, an employer mandate, a small business tax credit, extension of dependent coverage, room for state innovation, care coordination and disease management, transparency of prices and quality indicators, value-based purchasing, electronic health records.

Yeah, the Affordable Care Act looks nothing like any of that!

Them rose colored glasses are filtering out the deal breaker there Greenie...

Let's see, what did you oh-so-conveniently leave out?... hmmmmm


Could it be this?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FknJLMc84bo]BuzzFeed: Obama on the Mandate in 2008 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Greenbeard]

Them rose colored glasses are filtering out the deal breaker there Greenie...

Let's see, what did you oh-so-conveniently leave out?... hmmmmm

If you mean the part where are a widow and her children are left to beg on the internet for helping paying off their deceased relative's medical bills, that's actually not in there. I like to call that the dblack plan!

 

[dblack]

Them rose colored glasses are filtering out the deal breaker there Greenie...

Let's see, what did you oh-so-conveniently leave out?... hmmmmm

If you mean the part where are a widow and her children are left to beg on the internet for helping paying off their deceased relative's medical bills, that's actually not in there. I like to call that the dblack plan!

Would you mind changing your avatar to an ostrich?

 

[dblack]

This one is pretty good. You might need to resize it. Not sure what the image size limitations are on this board.