Stop Lying Republicans, The Majority of The American People Are IN Favor of Obamacare

[Quantum Windbag]

Them rose colored glasses are filtering out the deal breaker there Greenie...

Let's see, what did you oh-so-conveniently leave out?... hmmmmm

If you mean the part where are a widow and her children are left to beg on the internet for helping paying off their deceased relative's medical bills, that's actually not in there. I like to call that the dblack plan!

Somebody got $10,00+ for a fake racial comment on a tip line recently, apparently the internet is a pretty good solution.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Them rose colored glasses are filtering out the deal breaker there Greenie...

Let's see, what did you oh-so-conveniently leave out?... hmmmmm

If you mean the part where are a widow and her children are left to beg on the internet for helping paying off their deceased relative's medical bills, that's actually not in there. I like to call that the dblack plan!

Would you mind changing your avatar to an ostrich?

Like this?

 

[dblack]

If you mean the part where are a widow and her children are left to beg on the internet for helping paying off their deceased relative's medical bills, that's actually not in there. I like to call that the dblack plan!

Would you mind changing your avatar to an ostrich?

Like this?

Oh! I like that one even better.

 

[Kondor3]

I "...Healthcare Reform was needed desperately."

That's one opinion.

Others hold differently.

 

[Foxfyre]

Curious to know what negative effects you personally have experienced so far from the implementation of Obamacare.

Our deductibles increased. I can't prove it is because of O-Care. We didn't get a letter attributing the increase to O-care the way some others have.

I care more about the principle. If our policy stayed exactly the same, I would still object to the way O-care was lied and backdoored into law and to the media complicity which allowed this to happen.

The lack of accountability from the media is the scariest thing of all. A vital, non-shilling press is imperative to protect our democratic principles.

But other than the increase in your deductible which may or may not be attributed to Obamacare, you've noticed no other change so far?

I've suffered no changes so far except a lower premium.

Our premiums are up though not excessively yet--but our carrier (who happens to be a good friend) advises the increases are not on the books yet but they are coming.

Mostly we have noticed hospitals--three different ones--racheting back on staff. Waits for patient care are longer for the hospitalized. It is taking longer to see a specialist. The hospitals--all not for profit in our area--are scaling back in anticipation of much reduced revenues when they are forced to take hundreds/thousands of new patients at much reduced Obamacare dictated fees while there will be fewer privately insured patients paying the full costs.

 

[Amelia]

Our deductibles increased. I can't prove it is because of O-Care. We didn't get a letter attributing the increase to O-care the way some others have.

I care more about the principle. If our policy stayed exactly the same, I would still object to the way O-care was lied and backdoored into law and to the media complicity which allowed this to happen.

The lack of accountability from the media is the scariest thing of all. A vital, non-shilling press is imperative to protect our democratic principles.

But other than the increase in your deductible which may or may not be attributed to Obamacare, you've noticed no other change so far?

I've suffered no changes so far except a lower premium.

Our premiums are up though not excessively yet--but our carrier (who happens to be a good friend) advises the increases are not on the books yet but they are coming.

Mostly we have noticed hospitals--three different ones--racheting back on staff. Waits for patient care are longer for the hospitalized. It is taking longer to see a specialist. The hospitals--all not for profit in our area--are scaling back in anticipation of much reduced revenues when they are forced to take hundreds/thousands of new patients at much reduced Obamacare dictated fees while there will be fewer privately insured patients paying the full costs.

One of my friends was forced to wait to have knee surgery until she could make a down payment and set up a payment plan. In the past she would have been able to have the surgery and then would have been able to pay whatever her insurance didn't cover. But the hospital has changed things to make sure they get their money up front from people who have jobs so that they don't risk not getting paid afterward because their operating margin will be so small in the future.

 

[Contumacious]

Stop Lying Republicans, The Majority of The American People Are IN Favor of Obamacare
?

And we in the MINORITY have no rights because.....?

.

Because under the majoritarian ethos, might makes right.

We are headed on a collision course.

The socialists versus the freemen. It ain't going to be pretty.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

He ran on his healthcare plan on BOTH elections and won...TWICE. The Republicans ran on OPPOSING Obamacare with McCain and Romney. They were BOTH soundly rejected. SOUNDLY!

The status quo is not cutting it. The majority of the People wanted MORE, not less involvement in the healthcare situation.

When will you radicals stop lying?

Where did you hear this garbage?
If you believe that a vote for Obama was a mandate on Obamacare then you must admit the unthinkable( to you libs)...That a vote for Obama was indeed a vote for 'free shit'..
You see, it's a trap. You cannot have it both ways.
Admit it. Liberalism is in lockstep support of the Welfare State...Or more accurately, "Free Shit" State.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Since you brought forth "half truths" it would seem important for you to elaborate on why so many (as you state) feel they will be worse under the new law.

My guess, those not employed in the hospital/insurance/pharmaceutical complex, feels it didn't go far enough. I also suppose the millions of uninsured who sign up with an exchange will convince the insurance industry that the ACA is good for business.

I'm citing what the polls on Obamacare are saying as for why people feel that way the polls don't give that type of information as you very well know if you want me to speculate my guess would be because for than a few companies have announced they are cutting back hours or employees or both in response to Obamacare and some people are now discovering their rates will go up when Obamacare starts in some cases rather drastically.

Wow. What polls, what questions were asked and what were the demographics?

What companies and how does their policy change impact both the business and the employees?

Some people may experience a raise in rates, but what about co-pays and service provided. Health care is complicated and an evaluation of the ACA requires real facts, real figures and real scenarios. All of which is missing in the debate on the ACA.

Oh..Suddenly when the shoe is on the other foot, polls are no longer valid...
Yeah, right.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Had he run on Obamacare in 2008, he never would have been elected.

He did run on Obamacare in 2008.

If you found yourself surprised that he pursued a universal health plan once in office, perhaps you should've paid attention during the campaign.

In 2008, he said that a mandate would be wrong. He did not run on Obamacare in 2008.

Foxfyre is correct.

To be fair it was impossible to predict what form the ACA would finally take when it was passed into law. There are always compromises and 166 Republican amendments were included. How much that altered what he campaigned on and how many other aspects were excluded because of objections that would have meant that the votes to pass it weren't there is probably difficult to ascertain.

Obama kept his healthcare reform promise but the reality turned out to be different from the rhetoric. So the question should be must we start over again from scratch or simply modify the existing plan towards a compromise that is more acceptable?

 

[Derideo_Te]

While I do believe that Hilary would have been just as much of a "historical phenomenon" as Obama I tend agree that she would have been far more pragmatic. Bill was the master of putting together compromises that passed both houses and I believe that Hilary would have been just as effective if not even more so. Who knows, we might even have had a thriving economy on our hands by now.

There's a good chance we would have. I think she would have put the inevitable stimulus to better use.

Agreed, she would probably have negotiated a better stimulus package too.

 

[dblack]

He did run on Obamacare in 2008.

If you found yourself surprised that he pursued a universal health plan once in office, perhaps you should've paid attention during the campaign.

In 2008, he said that a mandate would be wrong. He did not run on Obamacare in 2008.

Foxfyre is correct.

To be fair it was impossible to predict what form the ACA would finally take when it was passed into law. There are always compromises and 166 Republican amendments were included. How much that altered what he campaigned on and how many other aspects were excluded because of objections that would have meant that the votes to pass it weren't there is probably difficult to ascertain.

Obama kept his healthcare reform promise but the reality turned out to be different from the rhetoric. So the question should be must we start over again from scratch or simply modify the existing plan towards a compromise that is more acceptable?

There's only one modification that needs to happen to eliminate most of the opposition to ACA - remove the individual mandate. The President has sided with the insurance lobby and refused to budge on that issue. Who's unwilling to compromise?

 

[Derideo_Te]

But other than the increase in your deductible which may or may not be attributed to Obamacare, you've noticed no other change so far?

I've suffered no changes so far except a lower premium.

Our premiums are up though not excessively yet--but our carrier (who happens to be a good friend) advises the increases are not on the books yet but they are coming.

Mostly we have noticed hospitals--three different ones--racheting back on staff. Waits for patient care are longer for the hospitalized. It is taking longer to see a specialist. The hospitals--all not for profit in our area--are scaling back in anticipation of much reduced revenues when they are forced to take hundreds/thousands of new patients at much reduced Obamacare dictated fees while there will be fewer privately insured patients paying the full costs.

One of my friends was forced to wait to have knee surgery until she could make a down payment and set up a payment plan. In the past she would have been able to have the surgery and then would have been able to pay whatever her insurance didn't cover. But the hospital has changed things to make sure they get their money up front from people who have jobs so that they don't risk not getting paid afterward because their operating margin will be so small in the future.

That makes sense. Not for profits are supposed to have smaller operating margins that for profit hospitals. Having to make the "Co-Pay" upfront is also logical and to be expected given that a major aspect of heathcare reform was to make patients "better, more cost aware consumers". That was probably one of the Republican amendments that were included.

 

[Redfish]

Our premiums are up though not excessively yet--but our carrier (who happens to be a good friend) advises the increases are not on the books yet but they are coming.

Mostly we have noticed hospitals--three different ones--racheting back on staff. Waits for patient care are longer for the hospitalized. It is taking longer to see a specialist. The hospitals--all not for profit in our area--are scaling back in anticipation of much reduced revenues when they are forced to take hundreds/thousands of new patients at much reduced Obamacare dictated fees while there will be fewer privately insured patients paying the full costs.

One of my friends was forced to wait to have knee surgery until she could make a down payment and set up a payment plan. In the past she would have been able to have the surgery and then would have been able to pay whatever her insurance didn't cover. But the hospital has changed things to make sure they get their money up front from people who have jobs so that they don't risk not getting paid afterward because their operating margin will be so small in the future.

That makes sense. Not for profits are supposed to have smaller operating margins that for profit hospitals. Having to make the "Co-Pay" upfront is also logical and to be expected given that a major aspect of heathcare reform was to make patients "better, more cost aware consumers". That was probably one of the Republican amendments that were included.

There were no republican amendments included in the ACA bill that was passed by the dems in the house and senate. That bill was written in a sealed room by dem staffers. No floor debate was allowed in either house, no republican amendments were allowed to be debated or voted on, it was passed on a dems only vote in the dark of night.

the terrible bill known as obamacare belongs solely to the democrats and obama.

 

[dblack]

One of my friends was forced to wait to have knee surgery until she could make a down payment and set up a payment plan. In the past she would have been able to have the surgery and then would have been able to pay whatever her insurance didn't cover. But the hospital has changed things to make sure they get their money up front from people who have jobs so that they don't risk not getting paid afterward because their operating margin will be so small in the future.

That makes sense. Not for profits are supposed to have smaller operating margins that for profit hospitals. Having to make the "Co-Pay" upfront is also logical and to be expected given that a major aspect of heathcare reform was to make patients "better, more cost aware consumers". That was probably one of the Republican amendments that were included.

There were no republican amendments included in the ACA bill that was passed by the dems in the house and senate. That bill was written in a sealed room by dem staffers. No floor debate was allowed in either house, no republican amendments were allowed to be debated or voted on, it was passed on a dems only vote in the dark of night.

the terrible bill known as obamacare belongs solely to the democrats and obama.

Indeed. Democrats only compromised with their own lobbyists. The 'debate' over ACA was essentially the Democrats negotiating with the 'vested interests' in the healthcare/insurance industries.

 

[Derideo_Te]

That makes sense. Not for profits are supposed to have smaller operating margins that for profit hospitals. Having to make the "Co-Pay" upfront is also logical and to be expected given that a major aspect of heathcare reform was to make patients "better, more cost aware consumers". That was probably one of the Republican amendments that were included.

There were no republican amendments included in the ACA bill that was passed by the dems in the house and senate. That bill was written in a sealed room by dem staffers. No floor debate was allowed in either house, no republican amendments were allowed to be debated or voted on, it was passed on a dems only vote in the dark of night.

the terrible bill known as obamacare belongs solely to the democrats and obama.

Indeed. Democrats only compromised with their own lobbyists. The 'debate' over ACA was essentially the Democrats negotiating with the 'vested interests' in the healthcare/insurance industries.

The facts show that 161 GOP amendments were included in the final version of the ACA. In addition there were at least 30 bipartisan meetings on the content of the bill.

Fact Check: How the health care law was made | America's Health Care

Despite the partisan vote on the bill, the fact is that the Affordable Care Act was a product of exhaustive bipartisan compromise. Indeed, some of the most important provisions in the bill were actually GOP ideas:

A high-risk pool for uninsured people with preexisting conditions

Allowing insurance companies to sell coverage across state lines

Pools where the self-employed and small businesses could buy insurance

In February, The Washington Post's Ezra Klein described in detail how all four health care planks on the GOP's Solutions for America website were incorporated into the bill. In fact, even the individual mandate itself has a strong history of support within the Republican Party, including from the Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney and Chuck Grassley.

Media Matters reported the following numbers about Republican involvement in the Affordable Care Act over the past 18 months:

According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, 2009, its final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators [Mike] Enzi [R-WY], [Tom] Coburn [R-OK], [Pat] Roberts [R-KS] and others [that] make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 [HELP Committee document, 7/09]. And according to the Senate Finance Committee's September 22, 2009, document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill.

More facts on the ACA;

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal | The White House

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal

It’s clear that the American people want health insurance reform. They aren’t interested in Democratic ideas or Republican ideas. They’re interested in the best ideas to reduce costs, guarantee choices and ensure the highest quality care.

They’re interested in ideas that will put them back in control of their own health care.

Throughout the debate on health insurance reform, Republican concepts and proposals have been included in legislation. In fact, hundreds of Republican amendments were adopted during the committee mark-up process. As a result, both the Senate and the House passed key Republican proposals that are incorporated into the President’s Proposal.

Review a few of the Republican initiatives included in legislation passed by Congress:
Includes personal responsibility incentives: Allows health insurance premium to vary based on participation in proven employer wellness programs

(Sources: H.R. 3468, “Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act” (Castle bill); H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill), "Coverage, Prevention and Reform Act")

Advances medical liability reform through grants to States: Provides grants to States to jump-start and evaluate promising medical liability reform ideas to put patient safety first, prevent medical errors, and reduce liability premiums.

(Sources: S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act” (Ryan bill); S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act” (Burr-Coburn, Ryan-Nunes bill))

Extends dependent coverage to age 26: Gives young adults new options.
(Sources: H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill))
Allows automatic enrollment by employers in health insurance: Allows employee to opt-out.
(Sources: House Republican Substitute; H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); “Coverage, Prevention, and Reform Act” )
Mechanisms to improve quality.

(Sources: H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act;” S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act;” H.R. 3400, Republican Study Group bill; S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill))

Community Mental Health Centers. The President’s Proposal ensures that individuals have access to comprehensive mental health services in the community setting, but strengthens standards for facilities that seek reimbursement as community mental health centers by ensuring these facilities are providing appropriate care and not taking advantage of Medicare patients or the taxpayers.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)

 

[dblack]

There were no republican amendments included in the ACA bill that was passed by the dems in the house and senate. That bill was written in a sealed room by dem staffers. No floor debate was allowed in either house, no republican amendments were allowed to be debated or voted on, it was passed on a dems only vote in the dark of night.

the terrible bill known as obamacare belongs solely to the democrats and obama.

Indeed. Democrats only compromised with their own lobbyists. The 'debate' over ACA was essentially the Democrats negotiating with the 'vested interests' in the healthcare/insurance industries.

The facts show that 161 GOP amendments were included in the final version of the ACA. In addition there were at least 30 bipartisan meetings on the content of the bill.

Fact Check: How the health care law was made | America's Health Care

Despite the partisan vote on the bill, the fact is that the Affordable Care Act was a product of exhaustive bipartisan compromise. Indeed, some of the most important provisions in the bill were actually GOP ideas:

A high-risk pool for uninsured people with preexisting conditions

Allowing insurance companies to sell coverage across state lines

Pools where the self-employed and small businesses could buy insurance

In February, The Washington Post's Ezra Klein described in detail how all four health care planks on the GOP's Solutions for America website were incorporated into the bill. In fact, even the individual mandate itself has a strong history of support within the Republican Party, including from the Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney and Chuck Grassley.

Media Matters reported the following numbers about Republican involvement in the Affordable Care Act over the past 18 months:

According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, 2009, its final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators [Mike] Enzi [R-WY], [Tom] Coburn [R-OK], [Pat] Roberts [R-KS] and others [that] make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 [HELP Committee document, 7/09]. And according to the Senate Finance Committee's September 22, 2009, document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill.

More facts on the ACA;

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal | The White House

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal

It’s clear that the American people want health insurance reform. They aren’t interested in Democratic ideas or Republican ideas. They’re interested in the best ideas to reduce costs, guarantee choices and ensure the highest quality care.

They’re interested in ideas that will put them back in control of their own health care.

Throughout the debate on health insurance reform, Republican concepts and proposals have been included in legislation. In fact, hundreds of Republican amendments were adopted during the committee mark-up process. As a result, both the Senate and the House passed key Republican proposals that are incorporated into the President’s Proposal.

Review a few of the Republican initiatives included in legislation passed by Congress:
Includes personal responsibility incentives: Allows health insurance premium to vary based on participation in proven employer wellness programs

(Sources: H.R. 3468, “Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act” (Castle bill); H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill), "Coverage, Prevention and Reform Act")

Advances medical liability reform through grants to States: Provides grants to States to jump-start and evaluate promising medical liability reform ideas to put patient safety first, prevent medical errors, and reduce liability premiums.

(Sources: S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act” (Ryan bill); S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act” (Burr-Coburn, Ryan-Nunes bill))

Extends dependent coverage to age 26: Gives young adults new options.
(Sources: H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill))
Allows automatic enrollment by employers in health insurance: Allows employee to opt-out.
(Sources: House Republican Substitute; H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); “Coverage, Prevention, and Reform Act” )
Mechanisms to improve quality.

(Sources: H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act;” S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act;” H.R. 3400, Republican Study Group bill; S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill))

Community Mental Health Centers. The President’s Proposal ensures that individuals have access to comprehensive mental health services in the community setting, but strengthens standards for facilities that seek reimbursement as community mental health centers by ensuring these facilities are providing appropriate care and not taking advantage of Medicare patients or the taxpayers.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221

Granted, the whole thing was a "Republican idea". I'm certainly not disputing that. Mitt Romney was first on the block to push this shit. The point is, no Republicans voted for it. If the Democrats included Republican amendments it's because they wanted to, they didn't do it as a compromise to Republicans.

The Democrats own ACA outright.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Indeed. Democrats only compromised with their own lobbyists. The 'debate' over ACA was essentially the Democrats negotiating with the 'vested interests' in the healthcare/insurance industries.

The facts show that 161 GOP amendments were included in the final version of the ACA. In addition there were at least 30 bipartisan meetings on the content of the bill.

Fact Check: How the health care law was made | America's Health Care



More facts on the ACA;

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal | The White House

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal

It’s clear that the American people want health insurance reform. They aren’t interested in Democratic ideas or Republican ideas. They’re interested in the best ideas to reduce costs, guarantee choices and ensure the highest quality care.

They’re interested in ideas that will put them back in control of their own health care.

Throughout the debate on health insurance reform, Republican concepts and proposals have been included in legislation. In fact, hundreds of Republican amendments were adopted during the committee mark-up process. As a result, both the Senate and the House passed key Republican proposals that are incorporated into the President’s Proposal.

Review a few of the Republican initiatives included in legislation passed by Congress:
Includes personal responsibility incentives: Allows health insurance premium to vary based on participation in proven employer wellness programs

(Sources: H.R. 3468, “Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act” (Castle bill); H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill), "Coverage, Prevention and Reform Act")

Advances medical liability reform through grants to States: Provides grants to States to jump-start and evaluate promising medical liability reform ideas to put patient safety first, prevent medical errors, and reduce liability premiums.

(Sources: S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act” (Ryan bill); S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act” (Burr-Coburn, Ryan-Nunes bill))

Extends dependent coverage to age 26: Gives young adults new options.
(Sources: H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill))
Allows automatic enrollment by employers in health insurance: Allows employee to opt-out.
(Sources: House Republican Substitute; H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); “Coverage, Prevention, and Reform Act” )
Mechanisms to improve quality.

(Sources: H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act;” S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act;” H.R. 3400, Republican Study Group bill; S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill))

Community Mental Health Centers. The President’s Proposal ensures that individuals have access to comprehensive mental health services in the community setting, but strengthens standards for facilities that seek reimbursement as community mental health centers by ensuring these facilities are providing appropriate care and not taking advantage of Medicare patients or the taxpayers.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)

Granted, the whole thing was a "Republican idea". I'm certainly not disputing that. Mitt Romney was first on the block to push this shit. The point is, no Republicans voted for it. If the Democrats included Republican amendments it's because they wanted to, they didn't do it as a compromise to Republicans.

The Democrats own ACA outright.

But you are conceding that it was a "Republican idea", right?

So what happens if the GOP cannot stop the ACA from taking effect in 2014 and instead of it being a "train wreck" it turns out that people actually like the idea of having affordable healthcare?

Will Republicans still campaign on the "Democrats own ACA outright"?

 

[Katzndogz]

Republicans will run on opposing obamacare and say they did everything possible to stop it. People might have liked the idea of free health care, but the reality of it isn't palatable. They don't like the high taxes imposed on medical devices. They don't like losing the health care they did have. They don't like having their hours reduced to part time. They don't like losing their doctor, or having the doctor not order needed tests because he won't get paid for it. The unions heavily campaigned for ACA. They campaigned for obama. They didn't realize that it meant that employers would reduce hours and shift workers to exchanges instead of those cadillac policies they did have.

The reality of obamacare is way different than the idea of obamacare.

 

[dblack]

The facts show that 161 GOP amendments were included in the final version of the ACA. In addition there were at least 30 bipartisan meetings on the content of the bill.

Fact Check: How the health care law was made | America's Health Care



More facts on the ACA;

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal | The White House

Granted, the whole thing was a "Republican idea". I'm certainly not disputing that. Mitt Romney was first on the block to push this shit. The point is, no Republicans voted for it. If the Democrats included Republican amendments it's because they wanted to, they didn't do it as a compromise to Republicans.

The Democrats own ACA outright.

But you are conceding that it was a "Republican idea", right?

Sure. And if McCain had won in '08, it's very possible I'd be having this exact same argument, with the exception that the names would be reversed and Democrats would be leading the charge against another corporate giveaway and I'd be criticizing the Republicans for their hypocrisy. So what?

... what happens if the GOP cannot stop the ACA from taking effect in 2014 and instead of it being a "train wreck" it turns out that people actually like the idea of having affordable healthcare?

Will Republicans still campaign on the "Democrats own ACA outright"?

You're presuming ACA represents 'affordable healthcare'. It has nothing to do with affordable healthcare. And it's certainly likely that the majority of voters, especially those who are getting screwed by the current status quo, will prefer state/corporate control of our health care financing. That still doesn't make it right.

As far as what Republicans will 'campaign' on, I don't know and don't care. My concern is for the future of the nation.