Stop ridiculing Single Payer HC insurance...and think on your own

[nat4900]

OH, and BTW.........If an employer no longer had to subsidize private HC insurance costs, would THAT make that employer more or less likely to hire additional employees???

 

[forkup]

Why the FUCK would someone demand the government take over their very HEALTH?

Gee, why don't we ask ALL those European countries?

Yes, let's ask them how they are enjoying their rising per capita health care costs.

You see that big red line on top. That's the US, and looking at that red line nowhere is health care costs rising faster. That rise in healthcare costs have to do with demographics way more then with single payer or privatized health insurance.

ObamaCare was sold to you rubes as a method to bend that curve DOWN. It was a giant con.

Single payer is also sold to the rubes as a method to bend the curve down. You can see by the example of the other countries that is also a giant lie.

And those countries are keeping their costs down by rationing.

You know what insurance has gotten a lot cheaper the last few years? Auto insurance. Even though the cost of autos has risen.

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance.

Right now, we are held hostage by the government and by our employers for our health insurance. We don't get to decide which health insurance we want. If you try to buy insurance as individual, the government has soaked up so much of the market, and forced employers to soak up the market, the individual pool is tiny and thus expensive.

If we were all able to buy our insurance the same way we buy our home, auto, and life insurance, we would see tremendous savings.

Nothing has been sold to me since I'm European. Why looking at your graph don't you ask yourself the question why the US is so much more expensive?

 

[g5000]

As you can see, auto insurance premium growth has been in NEGATIVE territory for a while now.

 

[shockedcanadian]

It's not Medicare For All. Medicare has significant gaps in coverage that allow for dynamic free market competition and innovation.

So he's clearly misrepresenting the plan, which is pure Single Payer, right out of the gate, as are his flock.
.

"Get the flock out of here!" (from the movie Porky's. A Canadian comedy classic from the 1980's

 

[g5000]

Why the FUCK would someone demand the government take over their very HEALTH?

Gee, why don't we ask ALL those European countries?

Yes, let's ask them how they are enjoying their rising per capita health care costs.

You see that big red line on top. That's the US, and looking at that red line nowhere is health care costs rising faster. That rise in healthcare costs have to do with demographics way more then with single payer or privatized health insurance.

ObamaCare was sold to you rubes as a method to bend that curve DOWN. It was a giant con.

Single payer is also sold to the rubes as a method to bend the curve down. You can see by the example of the other countries that is also a giant lie.

And those countries are keeping their costs down by rationing.

You know what insurance has gotten a lot cheaper the last few years? Auto insurance. Even though the cost of autos has risen.

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance.

Right now, we are held hostage by the government and by our employers for our health insurance. We don't get to decide which health insurance we want. If you try to buy insurance as individual, the government has soaked up so much of the market, and forced employers to soak up the market, the individual pool is tiny and thus expensive.

If we were all able to buy our insurance the same way we buy our home, auto, and life insurance, we would see tremendous savings.

Nothing has been sold to me since I'm European. Why looking at your graph don't you ask yourself the question why the US is so much more expensive?

The US is more expensive because we have a slapdash Rube Goldberg health care system which is the worst of all possible worlds. It is neither universal nor privatized.

We need to tear the entire structure down and make it more like our home, auto, and life insurance markets.

The government has fucked it all up.

 

[nat4900]

If we were all able to buy our insurance the same way we buy our home, auto, and life insurance, we would see tremendous savings.

EXCEPT, for this.........

What The Antitrust Exemption For Health Insurers Means : NPR

Would Repealing the 1945 Antitrust Exemption for Health Insurance ...

How Hospitals and Health Insurers Collude at Your Expense | Wolf ...

No Competition: The Price Of A Highly Concentrated Health Care Market

 

[shockedcanadian]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Why go on theory, just ask a Canadian about single payer systems and the greater system of centralized control that you submit to the state for this "privilege" which the state bestows on you (if it wishes, and of course, takes it away when you are dying in the hallway of a hospital).

Or maybe other members of dirt poor socialist systems (which by the way, Canada might be if not beside the greatest capitalist nation in history, and of course, our state run exploitation of the U.S) could provide their experiences on this forum.

When you start going to "single payer this", "universal that", "banning of this and that language"...you are headed towards socialism.

Clinton and her global agenda failed for a reason, do not allow Bernie to hoodwink the capitalist system based on individual liberty, ambition and contribution. Get smart, get creative, but tell this socialist that his ideals are better served in Russia, China, Cuba or some other hellhole. Leave America to remain a free and individual driven Republic! The only nation left for those seeking liberty as your Forefathers outlines.

 

[nat4900]

We need to tear the entire structure down and make it more like our home, auto, and life insurance markets.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated the following in its Oct. 23, 2009 report "H.R. 3596: Health Insurance Industry Antitrust Enforcement Act of 2009," available at cbo.gov:

"Companies that provide health and medical malpractice insurance are currently exempt from the federal antitrust laws insofar as they are engaging in the business of insurance...

 

[g5000]

I should be able to pick up the phone and call any health insurance company I wish. Just like I do with auto insurance.

No, I don't mean this idiotic "buy insurance across state lines" bullshit. That is a total fakeout. It does not mean you can call any insurance company in the country.

I mean you should be able to call ANY insurance company that sells health insurance. Just like you can call any insurance company that sells auto insurance.

Right now, you are hostage to your employer, and that is just what the labor unions and our government want. With your employer, you are trapped in a single option take-it-or-leave it hostage situation. Not only that, when you lose a job, you instantly lose your health insurance. And when you get a new job, you have to wait three to six months before you get new health insurance. Fuck that shit.

And the way we disincentivize that bullshit is to take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. Employer-sponsored health insurance is one of the biggest drivers behind rising health care costs. And the tax exemption causes higher tax rates on every tax payer.

So. You call whoever you want. You get the insurance policy you want. You have maximum bargaining leverage because you can hang up and call ANY competitor you wish. And you don't lose your insurance between jobs. You get long term customer discounts which you don't get if you switch jobs and have to get new insurance the way you do now. You get bundle discounts if you buy health, auto, home, and life insurance from the same company, UNLIKE the way you don't now.

It's win/win.

 

[Avatar4321]

Can we all agree that this push for single payer is an admission that ACA is an abject failure?

 

[Avatar4321]

OH, and BTW.........If an employer no longer had to subsidize private HC insurance costs, would THAT make that employer more or less likely to hire additional employees???

One more reason to repeal ACA

 

[The Irish Ram]

Never trust the government with your money or your health.

 

[g5000]

We need to tear the entire structure down and make it more like our home, auto, and life insurance markets.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated the following in its Oct. 23, 2009 report "H.R. 3596: Health Insurance Industry Antitrust Enforcement Act of 2009," available at cbo.gov:

"Companies that provide health and medical malpractice insurance are currently exempt from the federal antitrust laws insofar as they are engaging in the business of insurance...

Yes, that's right. I've explained many times on this forum that one of the things which will need to be done is to repeal the section of the McCarran-Ferguson Act which artificially created geographical oligarchies for the insurance companies.

That will have to be repealed so that you can buy health insurance from ANY insurance company in the country.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Years ago as CFO of a shipping company I figured out that my salary as a % of gross revenue, was a higher % than the CEO of Exxon Mobile. So, what's your point? Should the gubmint have taken over the shipping company? It takes a special breed to run a $10,000,000,000+ multinational.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

BTW.. speaking of single payer, how's the VA & Medicare doing these days?

 

[g5000]

We need to tear the entire structure down and make it more like our home, auto, and life insurance markets.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated the following in its Oct. 23, 2009 report "H.R. 3596: Health Insurance Industry Antitrust Enforcement Act of 2009," available at cbo.gov:

"Companies that provide health and medical malpractice insurance are currently exempt from the federal antitrust laws insofar as they are engaging in the business of insurance...

You do realize you are proving my point that government interference in the health insurance market is causing higher costs, right?

The government is the biggest player in the health insurance markets, and it gets to write the rules for its private sector competitors.

How's that been working out for you?

And yet you tards scream for MORE government in health care!

Fucking. Amazing.

 

[sartre play]

I don't know what the best way to fix health care is, do know that the average working person keeps having to pay more for every thing, while getting less in every area.

 

[nat4900]

OH, and BTW.........If an employer no longer had to subsidize private HC insurance costs, would THAT make that employer more or less likely to hire additional employees???

One more reason to repeal ACA

Non sequitur, moron.....LOL

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I don't know what the best way to fix health care is, do know that the average working person keeps having to pay more for every thing, while getting less in every area.

Health care is fine, matter of fact, the finest in the world.

 

[jasonnfree]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Why go on theory, just ask a Canadian about single payer systems and the greater system of centralized control that you submit to the state for this "privilege" which the state bestows on you (if it wishes, and of course, takes it away when you are dying in the hallway of a hospital).

Or maybe other members of dirt poor socialist systems (which by the way, Canada might be if not beside the greatest capitalist nation in history, and of course, our state run exploitation of the U.S) could provide their experiences on this forum.

When you start going to "single payer this", "universal that", "banning of this and that language"...you are headed towards socialism.

Clinton and her global agenda failed for a reason, do not allow Bernie to hoodwink the capitalist system based on individual liberty, ambition and contribution. Get smart, get creative, but tell this socialist that his ideals are better served in Russia, China, Cuba or some other hellhole. Leave America to remain a free and individual driven Republic! The only nation left for those seeking liberty as your Forefathers outlines.

People I've met from other countries shake their heads and say "only in America" when our health care system is brought up. This includes Canadians. One reason our health
care is so high here is because of corporate profits of the private insurance companies.