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Joseph Smith was as much a prophet as any other saint
His "miracles" are just as real
Refusing to examine the evidence is guaranteed to keep you in eternal ignorance on a matter. Some will examine it and decide to leave Mormonism and follow Jesus Christ - having learned the truth. Some will refuse to examine and decide to blindly follow a false prophet who squarely put himself in the place of Jesus Christ - even demanding that his followers give him a coronation - crowning him with a literal crown - to be the King of the Kingdom of heaven. There is only one King in the Kingdom of heaven, RW, and that King is Jesus Christ. Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith refused to acknowledge who Jesus Christ is. Jesus Christ is God.
All paths do not lead to heaven, RW. It would do you a great deal of good to go and learn what that means.
Who verified Jesus Christs miracles?
Just because they were in a book written by his followers? Anyone could have made up those stories....just like you claim Joseph Smith did
The multitudes witnessed the miracles of Jesus along with 12 more witnesses - his disciples. Many eyewitnesses saw Jesus Christ after he rose from the grave and testified of having seen him.
The disciples of Joseph Smith shown the empty box - 8 witnesses - admitted that they lied - that they didn't see anything in the box that Joseph Smith claimed contained the golden plates. That the boxes were indeed empty - just as all 8 witnesses said - they were empty - until he intimidated them and guilt tripped them into believing "by faith" they saw them. The testimonies of his own disciples - their wives having reported his attempts to seduce them - the testimonies of the angry husbands - the anger and accusations of his own followers who turned on him should be enough to call him into question!
Joseph Smith was a con man. The documents provided are numerous including quotes from his own books - the testimony of his own Father who exposed him as a liar - the news stories, the documented cases of his arrest - what he was arrested for - and on and on and on...... Joseph Smith is a recent figure in history compared to Jesus Christ.
As there is no question as to the authenticity of the Scriptures and the many testimonies even of non - Christians who wrote about Jesus Christ ( See Evidence that demands a Verdict) that the Bible is the most intact book of antiquity on earth today and the Illiad is second to it (Scholars around the globe agree on this fact having examined the evidence) is most intact & unchanged - how difficult do you believe it was for these researchers - authors of books - his own family members - testimony of his father - news stories - towns people - those who knew him - to bring the truth to light? This truth has been known for years but buried by some who do not wish for it to be known.
One thing you can always be certain of, RW. The truth will eventually come out. It always does. If you doubt the history given here check the sources used for this thread
-
Bible - King James Version - which exposed his false teachings
Fayette Lapham - Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet, Forty Years Ago, His Account of the Finding of the Sacred Plates, Historical Magazine (second series) (May 1870) 305 - 309
David W. Daniels - author
History of the Church, Volume 3 page 167
History of the Saints by John C Bennett (1842) page 218
The Book of Mormon - Mormon book
Doctrine & Covenants - Mormon book
Pearl of Great Price - Mormon book
Documentation from Nauvoo Expositor records
City of Nauvoo records
The Masonic Lodge
Quotes from Apostle, James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (1967) page 150 - a Mormon
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Volume 7, page 333 - another Mormon
Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 23 - another Mormon
On the documentation of Shedding of blood doctrine - which was a Mormon Doctrine - we can only save them by cutting their throats - for the crime of murder, marriage to an African, adultery, homosexuality or leaving the Mormon church. See The Changing World of Mormonism by Jerold and Sandra Tanner (1980) pages 493 - 501
Pearl of Great price, Abraham 4-5
Journal of Discourses, Volume 6 page 4
Dr. Alberto Rivera, former Jesuit Priest - see also Alberto page 18 and "the Force" page 25 published by Chick Publications.
In Mormonism - the Prophet speaks for God in ALL THINGS. See "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet by Ezra Taft Benson
"The Vision" - quoting Brigham Young - Journal of Discourses, Volume 7, page 289 and......
See N. B. Lundwall "The Vision"
also see the book The Enchanter - Chick Publications.
The evidence is all there and proves beyond all doubt that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
Oh! And do an independent study on "The Danites" and Samson Avard and read the Book Secrets of the Jesuits exposed. I believe you'll find a link there as well.
Closing this post with this Bible scripture
It is written:
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2 Peter 2:19
You quote the Bible which was written by those loyal to Jesus
There is no independent verification of those miracles outside the Bible....same thing you accuse Joseph Smith of
Wrong. There is plenty of independent verification of the miracles of Christ outside of the Bible. I just told you to look up Evidence that Demands a Verdict and you'll find plenty of outside sources! PLENTY.
Furthermore, there is a huge difference between Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith. HUGE.
it is written:
Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
John 19:4
Jesus Christ was innocent. He went to the cross of OUR sins. Not his own. He was sinless. Jesus Christ is God.
Now then. About Joseph Smith:
The accusers of Joseph Smith - who put him to death - could prove that he was guilty of destruction of private property - the printing presses of Nauvoo - as he was jumping to his death from the window of the jail - when they killed him before he landed! It's on record that he was arrested for that crime! His crimes are on record, RW!
His accusers had the testimonies of their own wives on that matter of his attempts to sexually molest them, and if that were not enough his own disciples and "witnesses" all eight of them admitted later on that they never saw the "golden plates" that the box was in fact empty. The testimony of the Danites proves him to be a cold blooded murderer.
This makes Joseph Smith a liar, a thief, a murderer, an adulterer, a false teacher, false prophet and son of Satan. A prophet of the LORD?
'
Ha! Think again! To even attempt to compare Jesus Christ to this scoundrel is in itself the height of insults! His delusions of grandeur surely caught up with him and anyone who thinks they are going to be answering to Joseph Smith after leaving this earth and not Jesus Christ? Is seriously deceived! Joseph Smith is where he belongs. In hell.
You have been deceived.It seems to me that I'd you want to know the story of Joseph Smith you should go to the source:
Joseph Smith History 1
I hear all the time that Joseph was some sort of fraud, but going to the source makes that talking points leads likely.
Take for instance Joseph's time in Liberty prison. The state of Missouri issued an extermination order against Mormons in the state giving the people permission to kill them on sight. Joseph and some of the leaders of the church attempted to negotiate a peace and while doing so we're betrayed by a government with no desire for peace and falsely arrested.
They were thrown in Liberty jail, and incredibly misnamed place. The cells weren't big enough to stand up right in and the guards would routinely boast to their prisoners how they were killing and raping and doing all harm to the saints who were eventually forced to leave the state.
And yet while in this horrid place, the Lord poured out two of the most beautiful revelations revealed to man.
Does this prayer sound like the words of a fraud or the prayer of a sincere man?
O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?
How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries?
Yea, O Lord, how long shall they suffer these wrongs and unlawful oppressions, before thine heart shall be softened toward them, and thy bowels be moved withcompassion toward them?
O Lord God Almighty, maker of heaven, earth, and seas, and of all things that in them are, and who controllest and subjectest the devil, and the dark and benighted dominion of Sheol—stretch forth thy hand; let thine eye pierce; let thy pavilion be taken up; let thyhiding place no longer be covered; let thine ear be inclined; let thine heart be softened, and thy bowels moved with compassion toward us.
Let thine anger be kindled against our enemies; and, in the fury of thine heart, with thy sword avenge us of our wrongs.
Remember thy suffering saints, O our God; and thy servants will rejoice in thy name forever. (
Doctrine and Covenants 121 )
And in response the Lord replies with:
My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;
And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes.
Thy friends do stand by thee, and they shall hail thee again with warm hearts and friendly hands.
Thou art not yet as Job; thy friends do not contend against thee, neither charge thee with transgression, as they did Job.
And not just ending there the Lord goes into instructions on many things including how to exercise power righteously.
He also revealed D&C 122 :
If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perilsamong robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;
6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;
7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?
You can slander Joseph all the days of your life. You can make all sorts of claims whether fact or fiction but until you truly study what he taught and did you will never know him. Heck Joseph said he probably wouldn't believe what he experienced if he hadn't experienced. In doing so you will just fulfill the prophecy that his name shall be spoken good and evil through the world
But if you reject his testimony,you should know what he testified. And you should know the lives of those who were witnesses with him.
Take the vision of the degrees of glory Joseph and Sidney pigeon witnessed the vision along with 27 other people who were present.
And their testimony was that He lives! Because they saw Christ the living savior.
And their invitation to the world is to come to the Lord and learn for yourself. You don't need to blindly accept anything they say.
My study of Joseph Smith shows me time after time that he was a prophet as he claimed to be.I've studied his words and life. And I've received a witness of the holy ghost that he was who he claimed to be and died as a martyr.
It seems that "boinkin'" Joey Smith set the prototype for Christian cult leaders with a thing for a harem of young girls.
That decision is gender based.It seems that "boinkin'" Joey Smith set the prototype for Christian cult leaders with a thing for a harem of young girls.
27 wives and Jesus was a virgin
Which religion do you want to follow?
That decision is gender based.It seems that "boinkin'" Joey Smith set the prototype for Christian cult leaders with a thing for a harem of young girls.
27 wives and Jesus was a virgin
Which religion do you want to follow?
Mormonism was taking shape, despite the protest of churchgoers. While the Mormons proclaimed,
Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. The Christians protested No! he's a scoundrel! You're a cult! Blasphemy! Everything you teach is a lie!
This was the "persecution" they faced in their early years. People hated the unbiblical new doctrines he was creating, following his "translation" into English of the Book of Mormon.
In the following scene we see the Christian asking the ex-Mormon - David, how this was possible!
Christian: David, I'm stumped! How could he translate the Book of Mormon from invisible golden plates?
David the ex - Mormon: Joseph may have believed they were there and that he could see them. Some say he used magical glasses to do it. Out of this craziness came forth "The Book of Mormon." Satan gave Joseph its message.
Christian: Unbelievable! Is it still the same, or has it been changed, too, like the story of the "angel" Moroni?
Ex-Mormon - David: Are you kidding? You'd be stunned to know how many times!
Christian: How many? 40 or 50?
Ex-Mormon David: Try 3,913 times! That's the magic of Mormonism: It has always changed and it always will.
The Mormons hold the Bible as the lowest of all their books.
It's no surprise to see the Book of Mormon above the Word of God. In Mormonism, the writings of Joseph Smith supercede anything God has written in His bible.
ALL Mormons are supposed to believe this.
____________
Page 16 of The Enchanter by Jack Chick Publications.
Saw one on the other day that reminded me of those older ones, some url was the only identifier and can't remember what it was. Morals.org or something like that.
popes don't write biblesRight not meant to attack Mormons but it claims Smith was a practitioner of witch craft. LOL you people will grasp at any straw to attack a religion that has never done a thing to hurt ot harm you or anyone else. Remind us how great the Pope is again?
Joseph Smith was as much a prophet as any other saint
His "miracles" are just as real
Eventually Joseph Smith also became ill, but after several days confinement he was prompted to arise and extend help to others. The day of 22 July was, in the words of Wilford Woodruff, “a day of God’s power” in Nauvoo and Montrose. That morning the Prophet arose and, being filled with the Spirit of the Lord, administered to the sick in his house and in the yard outside. More sick people were down by the river, and there too he administered with great power to the faithful. One such, Henry G. Sherwood, was near death. Joseph stepped to the door of Brother Sherwood’s tent and commanded him to rise and come out; he obeyed and was healed. Elder Heber C. Kimball and others accompanied the Prophet across the river to Montrose. One by one they visited the homes of the Twelve and administered to those who needed a blessing. Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Orson Pratt, and John Taylor then joined Joseph in his mission of mercy.
One of the most memorable of the healings in Montrose was that of Elijah Fordham. When the brethren arrived he was lying in bed unable to speak.
“Brother Joseph walked up to Brother Fordham, and took him by the right hand. . . .
“He saw that Brother Fordham’s eyes were glazed, and that he was speechless and unconscious.
“After taking hold of his hand, he looked down into the dying man’s face and said: ‘Brother Fordham, do you not know me?’ At first he made no reply; but we could all see the effect of the Spirit of God resting upon him.
“He again said: ‘Elijah, do you not know me?’
“With a low whisper, Brother Fordham answered, ‘Yes!’
“The Prophet then said, ‘Have you not faith to be healed?’
“The answer, which was a little plainer than before, was: ‘I am afraid it is too late. If you had come sooner, I think it might have been.’
“He had the appearance of a man waking from sleep. It was the sleep of death.
“Joseph then said: ‘Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ?’
“‘I do, Brother Joseph,’ was the response.
“Then the Prophet of God spoke with a loud voice, as in the majesty of the Godhead: ‘Elijah, I command you, in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, to arise and be made whole!’
“The words of the Prophet were not like the words of man, but like the voice of God. It seemed to me that the house shook from its foundation.
“Elijah Fordham leaped from his bed like a man raised from the dead. A healthy color came to his face, and life was manifested in every act.”
President Smith, while leading the way to my bed, made this remark: "Brother Noble, you have been too long with me to lie here." As soon as I saw him the tears of joy burst from my eyes. In a moment he was by my bedside, and took me by the hand. Without waiting for the other brethren to get to my bed, he commanded me, in the name of Jesus Christ, to arise and walk. I arose, and while putting on my clothes I fainted. When I regained consciousness I was on the bed, and Joseph was standing close to me.
As soon as my eyes met his he said, "Wherefore didst thou doubt?" and again commanded me to arise.
While he was speaking I felt the healing virtue flowing through every part of my system. I immediately arose and walked, rejoicing and praising the Lord with all my heart, for His blessing resting upon me, by which I was made whole.
Joseph Smith was as much a prophet as any other saint
His "miracles" are just as real
Refusing to examine the evidence is guaranteed to keep you in eternal ignorance on a matter. Some will examine it and decide to leave Mormonism and follow Jesus Christ - having learned the truth. Some will refuse to examine and decide to blindly follow a false prophet who squarely put himself in the place of Jesus Christ - even demanding that his followers give him a coronation - crowning him with a literal crown - to be the King of the Kingdom of heaven. There is only one King in the Kingdom of heaven, RW, and that King is Jesus Christ. Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith refused to acknowledge who Jesus Christ is. Jesus Christ is God.
All paths do not lead to heaven, RW. It would do you a great deal of good to go and learn what that means.
And while we meditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about.
And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;
And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.
And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
That by him, and through him, and of him, theworlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (D&C 76:19-24).
You have been deceived.It seems to me that I'd you want to know the story of Joseph Smith you should go to the source:
Joseph Smith History 1
I hear all the time that Joseph was some sort of fraud, but going to the source makes that talking points leads likely.
Take for instance Joseph's time in Liberty prison. The state of Missouri issued an extermination order against Mormons in the state giving the people permission to kill them on sight. Joseph and some of the leaders of the church attempted to negotiate a peace and while doing so we're betrayed by a government with no desire for peace and falsely arrested.
They were thrown in Liberty jail, and incredibly misnamed place. The cells weren't big enough to stand up right in and the guards would routinely boast to their prisoners how they were killing and raping and doing all harm to the saints who were eventually forced to leave the state.
And yet while in this horrid place, the Lord poured out two of the most beautiful revelations revealed to man.
Does this prayer sound like the words of a fraud or the prayer of a sincere man?
O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?
How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries?
Yea, O Lord, how long shall they suffer these wrongs and unlawful oppressions, before thine heart shall be softened toward them, and thy bowels be moved withcompassion toward them?
O Lord God Almighty, maker of heaven, earth, and seas, and of all things that in them are, and who controllest and subjectest the devil, and the dark and benighted dominion of Sheol—stretch forth thy hand; let thine eye pierce; let thy pavilion be taken up; let thyhiding place no longer be covered; let thine ear be inclined; let thine heart be softened, and thy bowels moved with compassion toward us.
Let thine anger be kindled against our enemies; and, in the fury of thine heart, with thy sword avenge us of our wrongs.
Remember thy suffering saints, O our God; and thy servants will rejoice in thy name forever. (
Doctrine and Covenants 121 )
And in response the Lord replies with:
My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;
And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes.
Thy friends do stand by thee, and they shall hail thee again with warm hearts and friendly hands.
Thou art not yet as Job; thy friends do not contend against thee, neither charge thee with transgression, as they did Job.
And not just ending there the Lord goes into instructions on many things including how to exercise power righteously.
He also revealed D&C 122 :
If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perilsamong robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;
6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;
7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?
You can slander Joseph all the days of your life. You can make all sorts of claims whether fact or fiction but until you truly study what he taught and did you will never know him. Heck Joseph said he probably wouldn't believe what he experienced if he hadn't experienced. In doing so you will just fulfill the prophecy that his name shall be spoken good and evil through the world
But if you reject his testimony,you should know what he testified. And you should know the lives of those who were witnesses with him.
Take the vision of the degrees of glory Joseph and Sidney pigeon witnessed the vision along with 27 other people who were present.
And their testimony was that He lives! Because they saw Christ the living savior.
And their invitation to the world is to come to the Lord and learn for yourself. You don't need to blindly accept anything they say.
My study of Joseph Smith shows me time after time that he was a prophet as he claimed to be.I've studied his words and life. And I've received a witness of the holy ghost that he was who he claimed to be and died as a martyr.
No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only bypersuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.
Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
You know what Avatar, you are a very respectful and thoughtful person. I am not the right person to address on this issue. Not because I am trolling, but because there is nothing that will dissuade my feelings about Mormonism.You have been deceived.It seems to me that I'd you want to know the story of Joseph Smith you should go to the source:
Joseph Smith History 1
I hear all the time that Joseph was some sort of fraud, but going to the source makes that talking points leads likely.
Take for instance Joseph's time in Liberty prison. The state of Missouri issued an extermination order against Mormons in the state giving the people permission to kill them on sight. Joseph and some of the leaders of the church attempted to negotiate a peace and while doing so we're betrayed by a government with no desire for peace and falsely arrested.
They were thrown in Liberty jail, and incredibly misnamed place. The cells weren't big enough to stand up right in and the guards would routinely boast to their prisoners how they were killing and raping and doing all harm to the saints who were eventually forced to leave the state.
And yet while in this horrid place, the Lord poured out two of the most beautiful revelations revealed to man.
Does this prayer sound like the words of a fraud or the prayer of a sincere man?
O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?
How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries?
Yea, O Lord, how long shall they suffer these wrongs and unlawful oppressions, before thine heart shall be softened toward them, and thy bowels be moved withcompassion toward them?
O Lord God Almighty, maker of heaven, earth, and seas, and of all things that in them are, and who controllest and subjectest the devil, and the dark and benighted dominion of Sheol—stretch forth thy hand; let thine eye pierce; let thy pavilion be taken up; let thyhiding place no longer be covered; let thine ear be inclined; let thine heart be softened, and thy bowels moved with compassion toward us.
Let thine anger be kindled against our enemies; and, in the fury of thine heart, with thy sword avenge us of our wrongs.
Remember thy suffering saints, O our God; and thy servants will rejoice in thy name forever. (
Doctrine and Covenants 121 )
And in response the Lord replies with:
My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;
And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes.
Thy friends do stand by thee, and they shall hail thee again with warm hearts and friendly hands.
Thou art not yet as Job; thy friends do not contend against thee, neither charge thee with transgression, as they did Job.
And not just ending there the Lord goes into instructions on many things including how to exercise power righteously.
He also revealed D&C 122 :
If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perilsamong robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;
6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;
7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?
You can slander Joseph all the days of your life. You can make all sorts of claims whether fact or fiction but until you truly study what he taught and did you will never know him. Heck Joseph said he probably wouldn't believe what he experienced if he hadn't experienced. In doing so you will just fulfill the prophecy that his name shall be spoken good and evil through the world
But if you reject his testimony,you should know what he testified. And you should know the lives of those who were witnesses with him.
Take the vision of the degrees of glory Joseph and Sidney pigeon witnessed the vision along with 27 other people who were present.
And their testimony was that He lives! Because they saw Christ the living savior.
And their invitation to the world is to come to the Lord and learn for yourself. You don't need to blindly accept anything they say.
My study of Joseph Smith shows me time after time that he was a prophet as he claimed to be.I've studied his words and life. And I've received a witness of the holy ghost that he was who he claimed to be and died as a martyr.
So you think Joseph was insincere in his prayer? Do you deny those revelations are amazing?
Think about it.
No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only bypersuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.
Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
And this revelation came in a hell hole called Liberty.
The Book of Mormon alone is a powerful witness of Joseph's calling. This book has brought millions to Christ and given a greater understanding of Him to millions of others.
And in none of this are we asked to blindly accept. Instead we are asked to go to the Lord and ask God for ourselves. And what's even more amazing is that God does answer those prayers!
Take the challenge yourself. Read the Book of Mormon and ask God for yourself. I've met many people who read the Book trying to disprove it who have been converted by the Holy Spirit.
Don't take my word for it or anyone else's. Find out for yourself.
Consistent with New Testament prophecy, Joseph Smith received new revelation and angelic visitations.
It is generally understood that the faith of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the claim that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, and also that he declared the coming forth of the Book of Mormon was the result of angelic visitations to him between the years 1823 and 1827.
Upon learning of this claim, some people contend that it seems preposterous that angels would visit the earth in this modern era.
The Bible contains testimony that God directed the affairs of His church on earth for over four thousand years by revelation and, when necessary, by heavenly ministrations.
In describing conditions of the last days incident to the second coming of Jesus Christ, John prophesied in the New Testament that before the Savior’s return, the world would receive a warning that the hour of God’s judgment was near. That warning would come by an angel from heaven declaring an “everlasting gospel.” Hear his words:
“I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
“Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” (Rev. 14:6–7.)
If one accepts the testimony of John the Revelator, new revelation and a visitation by a heavenly messenger to earth should be expected.
Our solemn testimony is that this angelic messenger appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the early nineteenth century. This announcement that an angel from God appeared to a prophet in our times is entirely consistent with the prophecies of the New Testament and should therefore command the interest of every earnest seeker after truth.
On the evening of 21 September 1823, an angel appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The angel’s name was Moroni. He was the last of a long line of ancient prophets of two great civilizations who lived … on the American Continent centuries ago.
The Book of Mormon is the most singular evidence of Joseph Smith’s calling as a prophet.
The most singular evidence in support of Joseph Smith’s claim to being a spokesman for Almighty God was the publication of a scriptural record, the Book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon is a record of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent and records the visit and ministry of Jesus Christ to the people on this continent following His ascension at Jerusalem. The major purpose of the record is to convince a later generation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. The Book of Mormon, therefore, constitutes an additional witness, along with the Bible, to the divinity of Jesus Christ.
Joseph Smith obtained this ancient record from a heavenly messenger, just as John prophesied. This angel appeared to him and revealed the location of ancient records which were inscribed on metallic plates and buried in a stone vault. In due time, the young prophet was given the plates and the means by which they were translated. The book was then published to the world as canonized scripture.
Also, in harmony with the testimony of John, the book contains “the everlasting gospel.” It is now preached by our missionaries to the world.
We invite you to test the validity of our witness about the origin of the Book of Mormon. You can do this by reading it and asking our Heavenly Father if these things are true. I promise you, if you are sincere, you will receive a confirmation of the truthfulness by the Holy Ghost. Millions, with soberness and sincerity, testify they know it is from God.11
If the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was His prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led today by a prophet receiving revelation
You know what Avatar, you are a very respectful and thoughtful person. I am not the right person to address on this issue. Not because I am trolling, but because there is nothing that will dissuade my feelings about Mormonism.You have been deceived.It seems to me that I'd you want to know the story of Joseph Smith you should go to the source:
Joseph Smith History 1
I hear all the time that Joseph was some sort of fraud, but going to the source makes that talking points leads likely.
Take for instance Joseph's time in Liberty prison. The state of Missouri issued an extermination order against Mormons in the state giving the people permission to kill them on sight. Joseph and some of the leaders of the church attempted to negotiate a peace and while doing so we're betrayed by a government with no desire for peace and falsely arrested.
They were thrown in Liberty jail, and incredibly misnamed place. The cells weren't big enough to stand up right in and the guards would routinely boast to their prisoners how they were killing and raping and doing all harm to the saints who were eventually forced to leave the state.
And yet while in this horrid place, the Lord poured out two of the most beautiful revelations revealed to man.
Does this prayer sound like the words of a fraud or the prayer of a sincere man?
O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?
How long shall thy hand be stayed, and thine eye, yea thy pure eye, behold from the eternal heavens the wrongs of thy people and of thy servants, and thine ear be penetrated with their cries?
Yea, O Lord, how long shall they suffer these wrongs and unlawful oppressions, before thine heart shall be softened toward them, and thy bowels be moved withcompassion toward them?
O Lord God Almighty, maker of heaven, earth, and seas, and of all things that in them are, and who controllest and subjectest the devil, and the dark and benighted dominion of Sheol—stretch forth thy hand; let thine eye pierce; let thy pavilion be taken up; let thyhiding place no longer be covered; let thine ear be inclined; let thine heart be softened, and thy bowels moved with compassion toward us.
Let thine anger be kindled against our enemies; and, in the fury of thine heart, with thy sword avenge us of our wrongs.
Remember thy suffering saints, O our God; and thy servants will rejoice in thy name forever. (
Doctrine and Covenants 121 )
And in response the Lord replies with:
My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;
And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes.
Thy friends do stand by thee, and they shall hail thee again with warm hearts and friendly hands.
Thou art not yet as Job; thy friends do not contend against thee, neither charge thee with transgression, as they did Job.
And not just ending there the Lord goes into instructions on many things including how to exercise power righteously.
He also revealed D&C 122 :
If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perilsamong robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;
6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;
7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?
You can slander Joseph all the days of your life. You can make all sorts of claims whether fact or fiction but until you truly study what he taught and did you will never know him. Heck Joseph said he probably wouldn't believe what he experienced if he hadn't experienced. In doing so you will just fulfill the prophecy that his name shall be spoken good and evil through the world
But if you reject his testimony,you should know what he testified. And you should know the lives of those who were witnesses with him.
Take the vision of the degrees of glory Joseph and Sidney pigeon witnessed the vision along with 27 other people who were present.
And their testimony was that He lives! Because they saw Christ the living savior.
And their invitation to the world is to come to the Lord and learn for yourself. You don't need to blindly accept anything they say.
My study of Joseph Smith shows me time after time that he was a prophet as he claimed to be.I've studied his words and life. And I've received a witness of the holy ghost that he was who he claimed to be and died as a martyr.
So you think Joseph was insincere in his prayer? Do you deny those revelations are amazing?
Think about it.
No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only bypersuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.
Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
And this revelation came in a hell hole called Liberty.
The Book of Mormon alone is a powerful witness of Joseph's calling. This book has brought millions to Christ and given a greater understanding of Him to millions of others.
And in none of this are we asked to blindly accept. Instead we are asked to go to the Lord and ask God for ourselves. And what's even more amazing is that God does answer those prayers!
Take the challenge yourself. Read the Book of Mormon and ask God for yourself. I've met many people who read the Book trying to disprove it who have been converted by the Holy Spirit.
Don't take my word for it or anyone else's. Find out for yourself.
Our Christian Challenge
I think perhaps so far I have made you think only of the rather obvious transgressions young Latter-day Saints face, the temptations Satan never seems to keep very subtle. But what about the gospel-living that isn’t so obvious and may be of a higher order still? Let me shift both the tone and the temptations just slightly and cite other examples of our Christian challenge.
On the night of March 24, 1832, a dozen men stormed the Hiram, Ohio, home where Joseph and Emma Smith were staying. Both were physically and emotionally spent, not only from all the travails of the young Church at the time but also because on this particular evening they had been up caring for their two adopted twins, born eleven months earlier on the same day that Emma had given birth to—and then lost—their own twins. Emma had gone to bed first while Joseph stayed up with the children; then she had arisen to take her turn, encouraging her husband to get some sleep. No sooner had he begun to doze than he heard his wife give a terrifying scream and found himself being torn from the house and very nearly being torn limb from limb.
Cursing as they went, the mob that had seized him were swearing to kill Joseph if he resisted. One man grabbed him by the throat until he lost consciousness from lack of breath. He came to only to overhear part of their conversation on whether he should be murdered. It was determined that for now he would simply be stripped naked, beaten senseless, tarred and feathered, and left to fend for himself in the bitter March night. Stripped of his clothing, fighting off fists and tar paddles on every side, and resisting a vial of some liquid—perhaps poison—which he shattered with his teeth as it was forced into his mouth, he miraculously managed to fight off the entire mob and eventually made his way back to the house. In the dim light his wife thought the tar stains covering his body were blood stains, and she fainted at the sight.
Friends spent the entire night scraping and removing the tar and applying liniments to his scratched and battered body. I now quote directly from the Prophet Joseph’s record:
By morning I was ready to be clothed again. This being the Sabbath morning, the people assembled for meeting at the usual hour of worship, and among them came also the mobbers [of the night before. Then he names them.] With my flesh all scarified and defaced, I preached to the congregation as usual, and in the afternoon of the same day baptized three individuals. [HC 1:264]
Unfortunately, one of the adopted twins, growing worse from the exposure and turmoil of the night, died the following Friday. “With my flesh all scarified and defaced, I preached to the congregation as usual”! To that slimy band of cowards who by Friday next will quite literally be the murderers of your child? Stand there hurting from the hair of your head that was pulled and then tarred into a mat, hurting right down to your foot that was nearly torn off being wrenched out the door of your own home? Preach the gospel to that damnable bunch of sniveling reprobates? Surely this is no time to stand by principle. It is daylight now and the odds aren’t twelve to one anymore. Let’s just conclude this Sunday service right now and go outside to finish last evening’s business. It was, after all, a fairly long night for Joseph and Emma; maybe it should be an equally short morning for this dirty dozen who have snickeringly shown up for church.
But those feelings that I have even now just reading about this experience 150 years later—and feelings I know that would have raged in my Irish blood that morning—mark only one of the differences between me and the Prophet Joseph Smith. You see, a disciple of Christ—which I testify to you Joseph was and is—always has to be a disciple; the judge does not give any time off for bad behavior. A Christian always stands on principle, even as old Holland is out there swinging a pitchfork and screaming an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth—forgetting, as dispensation after dispensation has forgotten, that this only leaves everyone blind and toothless.
No, the good people, the strong people, dig down deeper and find a better way. Like Christ, they know that when it is hardest to be so is precisely the time you have to be at your best. As another confession to you, I have always feared that I could not have said at Calvary’s cross, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” Not after the spitting, and the cursing, and the thorns, and the nails. Not if they don’t care or understand that this horrible price in personal pain is being paid for them. But that’s just the time when the fiercest kind of integrity and loyalty to high purpose must take over. That’s just the time when it matters the very most and when everything else hangs in the balance—for surely it did that day. You and I won’t ever find ourselves on that cross, but we repeatedly find ourselves at the foot of it. And how we act there will speak volumes about what we think of Christ’s character and his call for us to be his disciples. ( The Bitter Cup and the Bloody Baptism - Speeches )
You guys don't get it...Mormonism is an affront to Christianity...it is so contrary to the Word of God. A cult that changes the fundamental teachings in the Bible cannot and is not a form of Christianity. It is a unique cult of deceived people who believe in pedophilia and polygamy. A cult of people who think they will have their own planet in the after life if they wear magic underwear.
