student escorted out of class for not saying the pledge

[Contumacious]

if you choose to believe that, you're welcome to it, but i think you do a disservice to the 99.9999% of our teachers and school systems that don't engage in this behavior. s.

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state. –Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

 

[CMike]

Being called names by someone who advocates tyranny and opposes the principles upon which this nation and all great societies are built is a compliment.

You are still a douche bag.

 

[del]

if you choose to believe that, you're welcome to it, but i think you do a disservice to the 99.9999% of our teachers and school systems that don't engage in this behavior. s.

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state. –Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

love your new hat.

that's reynolds wrap and not just generic tin foil isn't it?

quality will tell, now scamper back to the conspiracy subforum like a good lad.

 

[Contumacious]

if you choose to believe that, you're welcome to it, but i think you do a disservice to the 99.9999% of our teachers and school systems that don't engage in this behavior. s.

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state. –Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

love your new hat.

that's reynolds wrap and not just generic tin foil isn't it?

quality will tell, now scamper back to the conspiracy subforum like a good lad.

Yep, I'm planning to do just that as soon as you tell me how is it that we have a federal government that controls everything.

Admit it, Ms. Paterson's prediction was 100% correct.

.

.

.

 

[chanel]

It's called respect for the flag, respect for the country providing this free education, and respect for the teacher who may be offended by some asshole who is too lazy to stand.

We say it before public meetings and we stand for the national anthem.

If you hate this country and have no respect for those of us who don't - move.

I am so sick of students saying "you can't make me do anything I don't want to" and some idiot adults saying "yeah kids - that's what freedom is about"

 

[Ravi]

It's called respect for the flag, respect for the country providing this free education, and respect for the teacher who may be offended by some asshole who is too lazy to stand.

We say it before public meetings and we stand for the national anthem.

If you hate this country and have no respect for those of us who don't - move.

I am so sick of students saying "you can't make me do anything I don't want to" and some idiot adults saying "yeah kids - that's what freedom is about"

Shouldn't teachers have respect for freedom of speech?

And no offense, Chanel, but if you are offended by some random asshole student's laziness...

 

[SFC Ollie]

"Freedom from religion is not one of our rightss in the constitution."


you really do hate freedom, don't you....

I mean....you HATE the freedom to NOT be forced to recite indoctrinational mantras

and you HATE the freedom to NOT be free from religion


well
sorry to tell you this
and it will, i'm sure, cause you to flail your arms and shriek in anger

but freedom OF religion DOES INCLUDE freedom FROM religion

you have the freedom to believe any religious mumbo jumbo you want to

and I have the freedom to consider it all nonsense

btw..
(you won't understand this)

but a pledge of allegiance to America should NOT include ANY religious connections or references.

the pledge should be a pledge to the COUNTRY (as the original pledge was written)
and NOT a pledge to any god

religious references in the pledge are unconstitutional

and just plain wrong

So then hire a lawyer and sue the government. Its a damned shame that so many idiots get upset over something so simple as 2 little words. If they mean nothing to you then why be upset. Everytime i see the word God in print I take it to mean God as I see it. Not the way you or anyone else does. Try it sometime. It's also called respect for others. And don't even think about telling me I hate freedom ever again, I'll allow you to get by with that this time.

Would you say the same thing if it said 'Allah Akbar'?

Somehow, I doubt it.

Allah is another language for God. And means the god of Abraham same as the Jewish and Christian God.

 

[bodecea]

Interesting result of this. I have a friend who teaches 8th grade...I pointed out this thread and the news article to her. She just called me and said she linked the news article and then this thread to her class projector and showed it ALL to her class in the morning that does the Pledge. (She warned them ahead of time of some of the language). She told me that...so far...it had generated some of the most interesting discussions in that class...a class that just finished going over the Bill of Rights.

*Waving at that class if she uses this thread next week.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Last time I was in the 8th grade was 1963 and if you didn't stand a recite the pledge, you were in a heap of trouble.

Yeah but the flags were made in the USA then.

American made American flags.

What a unique idea.

Every year my American Legion post places about 600 American made American Flags on the graves of veterans at 2 local cemeteries. most American flags today are indeed Made in America.

 

[chanel]

Respect for freedom of speech? WTF does that mean? Children do not have unlimited speech rights at school. Should they be permitted to say "Fuck the flag? Blow me?"

Soldiers have sacrificed their lives for that symbol. They deserve as much respect as Johnny Stoner.

Yes Ravi it is offensive. When 25 decent kids are standing and one asshole is allowed to sit, it is wrong.Its just another example of rewarding bad behavior. That's far more damaging than making one asshole stand for 30 seconds.I don't care if they say it, just get the hell up.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

It's called respect for the flag, respect for the country providing this free education, and respect for the teacher who may be offended by some asshole who is too lazy to stand.

We say it before public meetings and we stand for the national anthem.

If you hate this country and have no respect for those of us who don't - move.

I am so sick of students saying "you can't make me do anything I don't want to" and some idiot adults saying "yeah kids - that's what freedom is about"

So cool, now its respect for the flag, respect for the country, and respect for the teacher through compulsion... No , I shouldnt be forced to respect ANYTHING or have to say a pledge to show my commitment to my country. Teaching the civic and historical importance of the pledge is all you as a school official can do for the kids.

 

[Anguille]

It's called respect for the flag, respect for the country providing this free education, and respect for the teacher who may be offended by some asshole who is too lazy to stand.

We say it before public meetings and we stand for the national anthem.

If you hate this country and have no respect for those of us who don't - move.

I am so sick of students saying "you can't make me do anything I don't want to" and some idiot adults saying "yeah kids - that's what freedom is about"

Not everyone shows their respect the same way. Too bad some people can't respect that!

 

[blu]

Having children stand up and recite a "pledge of allegiance" every school day is ridiculous to begin with. People can decide for themselves where their loyalties lie when they're adults.

To start. It is wrong for the teacher to remove a student for not reciting the Pledge. A much better way to handle that situation is to spend 15 minutes at the beginning of every class that week teaching the students what the pledge means and what part of our government guarantees them the right to remain silent during the pledge.

Now, you say people can decide fro themselves where their loyalties lie and I would normally agree with that. Except that you are talking about government run schools and the organs that teach our children teach them that America is not a good country. That America has no value. That we should not be proud of America or what America stands for.

So tell Me. How do those of us who actually love this country combat that if you think we shouldn't force our kids to do things like recite the pledge or sing the national anthem at events or fly a flag in the classroom?

i lol'd at your post in general but also that you think reciting some pledge or song will change years of supposed indoctrination

 

[Coyote]

Whether you like it or not our founding fathers held God In high regard. I bet you don't have any problems with US currency.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed….."

"Whether you like it or not our founding fathers held God In high regard. I bet you don't have any problems with US currency."


our original currency (printed by our forefathers) did NOT have "one nation under god" printed on it.

that wasn't added until AFTER the civil war (thanks to the shrill shrieks of whinny conservative christians who just REFUSED to leave America alone and must have HATED our original forefathers)


Our original motto was "e pluribus unum",

it was changed AFTER the civil (thanks to the shrill shrieks of whinny conservative christians who just REFUSED to leave America alone and must have HATED our original forefathers)

Our original pledge did NOT include "under god"

that was added in the 1950's during the right wing mcarthy red scare
(thanks to the shrill shrieks of whinny conservative christians who just REFUSED to leave America alone and must have HATED our original forefathers)

so
if you really think that we should just restore things to the way our forefathers set them then you should SUPPORT the REMOVAL of all those god references.

When posters like Ollie say they support the traditions of our Founders....you know they are either lying or really ignorant of our history.

History is written by the victors - or, more accurately - whichever group is in power. It is very subjective. Ollie supports what he sees as the traditions of the founders and I respect that. It is a deep and genuine commitment. I would not belittle it, and it allows for the respectful consideration of the views of others and, more important - his view allows us each our own interpretation of "God" or, no "God".

I may not agree, but I can certainly understand.

The founders were human - ordinary people in extraordinary situations. They weren't gods and I am quite sure that they had no idea that they and the documenst they forged would be regarded with an almost religous fervor by future generations. One of them (I can't remember who) advocated a revolution every so often, where the constitution would be rewritten. They were idealists yet realists. We should remember that before making sweeping statements about what sort of Christians they were.

 

[SFC Ollie]

"Whether you like it or not our founding fathers held God In high regard. I bet you don't have any problems with US currency."


our original currency (printed by our forefathers) did NOT have "one nation under god" printed on it.

that wasn't added until AFTER the civil war (thanks to the shrill shrieks of whinny conservative christians who just REFUSED to leave America alone and must have HATED our original forefathers)


Our original motto was "e pluribus unum",

it was changed AFTER the civil (thanks to the shrill shrieks of whinny conservative christians who just REFUSED to leave America alone and must have HATED our original forefathers)

Our original pledge did NOT include "under god"

that was added in the 1950's during the right wing mcarthy red scare
(thanks to the shrill shrieks of whinny conservative christians who just REFUSED to leave America alone and must have HATED our original forefathers)

so
if you really think that we should just restore things to the way our forefathers set them then you should SUPPORT the REMOVAL of all those god references.

When posters like Ollie say they support the traditions of our Founders....you know they are either lying or really ignorant of our history.

History is written by the victors - or, more accurately - whichever group is in power. It is very subjective. Ollie supports what he sees as the traditions of the founders and I respect that. It is a deep and genuine commitment. I would not belittle it, and it allows for the respectful consideration of the views of others and, more important - his view allows us each our own interpretation of "God" or, no "God".

I may not agree, but I can certainly understand.

The founders were human - ordinary people in extraordinary situations. They weren't gods and I am quite sure that they had no idea that they and the documenst they forged would be regarded with an almost religous fervor by future generations. One of them (I can't remember who) advocated a revolution every so often, where the constitution would be rewritten. They were idealists yet realists. We should remember that before making sweeping statements about what sort of Christians they were.

That would have been my great great great grandfathers cousin Mr Jefferson.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Coyote]

I made this mistake a few years ago when I wrote up a disciplinary referral on a kid who refused to stand. I knew they didn't have to say the Pledge, but I thought they still had to stand like people do in stadiums. I was wrong. But the kid wasn't making a political statement. He was just too lazy. (He's in jail now)

For something entirely unrelated, yes?

Isn't one of the purposes of a free public education is to foster patriotism and civic duty?

No. It's to educate. If the system is worth preserving, then educated men and women will understand that and preserve it, just as they will destroy any system worth destroying (see the CCCP, the Articles of Confederation, or the LoN).

I agree it's to educate...but...isn't civic duty part of education?

 

[Samson]

I made this mistake a few years ago when I wrote up a disciplinary referral on a kid who refused to stand. I knew they didn't have to say the Pledge, but I thought they still had to stand like people do in stadiums. I was wrong. But the kid wasn't making a political statement. He was just too lazy. (He's in jail now)

For something entirely unrelated, yes?

Isn't one of the purposes of a free public education is to foster patriotism and civic duty?

No. It's to educate. If the system is worth preserving, then educated men and women will understand that and preserve it, just as they will destroy any system worth destroying (see the CCCP, the Articles of Confederation, or the LoN).

I agree it's to educate...but...isn't civic duty part of education?

No.

 

[blu]

always loved the people who force allegiance to liberty....

washingtonpost.com

Allegiance to one's country should not be forced, but it should be expected. Anyone not pledging allegiance should be bitchslapped and sent to Git'mo. IMO

yea because not doing a voluntary act in a free country is terrorism

 

[SFC Ollie]

I made this mistake a few years ago when I wrote up a disciplinary referral on a kid who refused to stand. I knew they didn't have to say the Pledge, but I thought they still had to stand like people do in stadiums. I was wrong. But the kid wasn't making a political statement. He was just too lazy. (He's in jail now)

For something entirely unrelated, yes?

Isn't one of the purposes of a free public education is to foster patriotism and civic duty?

No. It's to educate. If the system is worth preserving, then educated men and women will understand that and preserve it, just as they will destroy any system worth destroying (see the CCCP, the Articles of Confederation, or the LoN).

I agree it's to educate...but...isn't civic duty part of education?

Should be. But it depends on your local school system these days.

 

[blu]

Allegiance to one's country should not be forced, but it should be expected. Anyone not pledging allegiance should be bitchslapped and sent to Git'mo. IMO

Allegiance to a flag or country should not be 'expected'. Should those born in the CCCP, NAZI Germany, or Rwanda be 'expected' to to be all gung ho about their homeland?

Loyalties and allegiances should be to principles and should be to a nation only insomuch as that nation stands for those principles.

I'm sure the Crown would have appreciated your sentiments, Tory.

I'm sure that when Lonestar Secesh gets his wish and Texas becomes an independent republic again (*snicker), the first order of business will be to pass a law FORCING people to swear daily allegiance to the Lone Star Flag...or else be lynched.

this would soon be followed by their invasion and overtaking. then they would coming crying to the us gov like they did for the bailouts (after bad talking them of course)