Sunday Sermon-similarities in vision of the groom continued part3

[irosie91]

No Rome swallowed up the revolts by using the leaders as mask figures. As long as they could be the authority behind the curtains (facade) they didn't care, which is why they poked fun at the character they built.
This is why they placed the created icon through all the harlots of the Bible in his lineage description.
This is why they lifted up the 100bc era Harlot Mary and her half Roman son Yeshu. This is why they made Yehuda the villain, as to demonize Yehuda the Galilean Christ of Herod's era as well as representing and demonize JEWS in general.
Like every joke the punchline is at the end of the story hence acknowledging at the very end Rev 22:16 that they were lifting high baal's dying son, the nemesis of the God of Israel.

Now reread what you wrote at the end, Jesus isn't a singular figure, the one who A small elect punished for his crimes was Yeshu son of Mary the Harlot in around 85bc he was stoned & hanged, this is not the same figure as the Galilean tax revolter who Rome had a problem with thus sentenced to the cross in 6bc nor the Jordan river Christ who's apostles were martyrs who Rome had a problem with.
The reason why you have 2 blames is because you have more then one figure combined. THE INDIVIDUAL followers of these figures dissapated as they failed, others got conbined into one fold in wgich they themselves had problems with this Jesus image heing formed, which us why Rome tried to kill them all, as any survivers can out the discrepancies and issues with the new combined figure with new name.

Now are we going by the bible or history. Jesus of the NT paid his taxes. The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans, actually brought him to Pilate. He was a drag on their arrogance and positions they had with the romans, and with the Jews they ruled.

Poor Penelope-----she actually imagines that she saw Income tax returns signed
"jesus, of Nazareth". My first recommendation in such a case is always----- VDRL and SPINAL TAP with FTA. Of course the Sadducees hated Jesus------they hated all Pharisees but the romans did not need jews to "HAND PEOPLE OVER"

He was not a Pharisee, how many times must I tell you. According to the NT , he was the opposite of the Pharisee's and that is why they wanted Rome to put him to death.

your saying it does not make it so. Try reading the book----Had I not read it----I
would not know that the jesus presented in
the NT was a Pharisee------because I did attend a protestant sunday school a few
times in my childhood and had lots of catholic friends ----I would have been just as confused as are you I will help you---
the only jews who would have been against jesus would have been the SADDUCEES------in fact the NT, itself, cites
CAIAPHAS-------of whom you are totally
ignorant because you never read the NT..
Jesus was a VERY TYPICAL PHARISEE----every word reliably attributed to him is
100% Pharisee------including the thing you call "The Lord's Prayer" -----Jesus was clearly a follower of HILLEL------ask Ross Perot. No wonder the nuns told you not
to read the bible. I remember the reason (from catholic friends)----the idea was that you would not understand it ----the church had to TELL YOU. ("we are not supposed to interpret the bible ourselves")--------when you were a kid--you learned what the nuns told you----
as an adult you learn islamo Nazi propaganda. It is very obvious to me because I am familiar with both of those
VERSIONS

 

[irosie91]

*L* at what Irosie said ...

Penelope: I wasn't the one that named the figure "the swine", Rome nicknamed him that.
There is no historical Jesus, only the historical figures making up small portions of his image have a history.
The Galilean christ was literally called "the tax revolter", because he lead the tax revolt against Rome.
He was the only Galilean christ figure at the time of Herod. NT accounts Jesus discussing Rome's tax in Matthew and elsewhere, saying pay Rome what they are due, (but not what chunk they were trying to grab.)
The NT mentions this christ in Acts along with the River Jordan christ of the AD era however they manage to mix up their order of death. Yehuda of Galilee died 6bc and Theudas died 45ad. The NT says Theudas died before Yehuda,oops, but then again the NT also accounts Lysanias as living in the time of Jesus when Lysanias died around 35bc. Yehuda of Galilee the tax revolter crucified by Rome for his revolt is the only christ of the Herod & Lysanias era. But this is not Yeshu son of Mary of 100bc with the widows mite story, hanging on a tree on passover account. It's also not she same figure as the
A.D. era river Jordan FIGURE who's apostles were martyred.

You mean like there is no historical Moses, David or Solomon.

you chose the wrong people to make "non-existent" Penelope. There is far more historical evidence of David and Solomon--------than there is of Jesus----
as to moses-----well ---more than Jesus---
but not much more. Try to keep in mind---
Jesus existed ---if he existed-----only 2000 years ago. Jews have been literate for 2500 years-----A LOT more literate than have been the overwhelming majority of people of YOUR world until about 100 years ago. Interestingly enough---there is a far more convincing historical record
of Solomon and David than there is of muhummad who is about as HISTORICAL
as is jesus. For the sake of perspective----I will add that I consider
AGAMEMNON a real historical character----at least as real as muhummad

 

[irosie91]

Clarification of missconceptions:
A historical figure is a person in history.
Yeshu son of Mary, Yehuda ben Tabbai, Yehuda the Galionite, Yehuda of Galilee, Benjamin the Egyptian, Theudas of the River Jordan are all Historical figures.

Jesus however is not a singular figure, he's an image of a man created by converging many, including borrowed mythology of many myths that aren't of historical figures.
Plagiarism of Bible characters, mythical ones luke Baal, Mithra, Krishna, Esus, Dagon, Horus, Osiris etc...

This is why the OT like Ezekiel 28 states the son of perdition (i.e. pit) would be an "image of a man" deemed perfect.

shev----I don't think Penelope is familiar with greek and roman theatre

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 11

He was not a Pharisee, how many times must I tell you. According to the NT , he was the opposite of the Pharisee's and that is why they wanted Rome to put him to death.[/QUOTE]

I wonder what constitutes "the opposite of a Pharisee" in the addled brain of penelope

 

[shimon]

No Rome swallowed up the revolts by using the leaders as mask figures. As long as they could be the authority behind the curtains (facade) they didn't care, which is why they poked fun at the character they built.
This is why they placed the created icon through all the harlots of the Bible in his lineage description.
This is why they lifted up the 100bc era Harlot Mary and her half Roman son Yeshu. This is why they made Yehuda the villain, as to demonize Yehuda the Galilean Christ of Herod's era as well as representing and demonize JEWS in general.
Like every joke the punchline is at the end of the story hence acknowledging at the very end Rev 22:16 that they were lifting high baal's dying son, the nemesis of the God of Israel.

Now reread what you wrote at the end, Jesus isn't a singular figure, the one who A small elect punished for his crimes was Yeshu son of Mary the Harlot in around 85bc he was stoned & hanged, this is not the same figure as the Galilean tax revolter who Rome had a problem with thus sentenced to the cross in 6bc nor the Jordan river Christ who's apostles were martyrs who Rome had a problem with.
The reason why you have 2 blames is because you have more then one figure combined. THE INDIVIDUAL followers of these figures dissapated as they failed, others got conbined into one fold in wgich they themselves had problems with this Jesus image heing formed, which us why Rome tried to kill them all, as any survivers can out the discrepancies and issues with the new combined figure with new name.

Now are we going by the bible or history. Jesus of the NT paid his taxes. The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans, actually brought him to Pilate. He was a drag on their arrogance and positions they had with the romans, and with the Jews they ruled.

Penelope, archeologists have wanted to find out for themselves and have concluded David and Solomon seem verifiable historical figures through found early etchings into stones stating their kingships.
I think I remember some proof of Moses as well, and of course there is always the Aaronic lineage marker through the common found genetic marker in the Kohanim. According to you I don't exist being that I am of that Aaronic lineage, that would mean you talk and argue with yourself.

That being said: once again, we don't venerate the figures and it's not important to the ideology if they were real or not. In Christianity they make the figure a god and claim it truth and free get away with sin card, therefore they are bound by it needing to be real.

No sorry that is not true, no historical evidence for David or Solomon. Moses was most likely taken from Sargon who also was floating in the water in a basket.

 

[HaShev]

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 11

He was not a Pharisee, how many times must I tell you. According to the NT , he was the opposite of the Pharisee's and that is why they wanted Rome to put him to death.

I wonder what constitutes "the opposite of a Pharisee" in the addled brain of penelope[/QUOTE]

You have to remember Penelope and Romans thus Christians don't know Hebrew where they used a very similar word translated as Pharisee which was a description of a type of person but was not a group of people.
This word got confused and gets confused by
those not knowing this and by a culture which waited so long in compiling it's text that didn't understand the story passed down the line...the ole changed outcome changed story from the pass the story down the line experiment.

 

[Penelope]

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 11

He was not a Pharisee, how many times must I tell you. According to the NT , he was the opposite of the Pharisee's and that is why they wanted Rome to put him to death.

I wonder what constitutes "the opposite of a Pharisee" in the addled brain of penelope[/QUOTE]


Matt 23, read it all , here is a verse of it,

27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of filth. 28 Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing.

oh yes he was a Pharisee, don't think so!!!!!

 

[shimon]

THE HIDDEN MOSES
Can any evidence be found in the museums of the world for the historical existence of Moses? Just who was the Egyptian princess who claimed him as her own son? And who was the Pharaoh of the Exodus, and who was his first born son that died in the 10th plague?
First let's look at what we know about Moses from scripture.
Moses died at age 120 (about 1405 B.C.)
Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
After the exodus, Moses and Israel wandered in the wilderness 40 years:
Num 32:13 And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed.

So Moses was 80 at the time of the first Passover and exodus from Egypt.​

The first Passover and Exodus is dated by the reign of Solomon​

1 Ki 6:1 And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD.
With Solomon's 4th year estimated at 967/966 B.C. - 480 years earlier places the Exodus at about 1445 B.C.​

Moses spent 40 years in Midian / Madian:
Acts 7:29 Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
So Moses was 40 years old when he smote the Egyptian (about 1485 B.C.):
Acts 7:23 And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
Acts 7:24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:
So Moses was born about 1525 B.C., and the daughter of the reigning Pharaoh (Tutmoses I) who found him in the Nile was princess Nefure, who later became known as Queen Hatshepsut, Pharaoh of Egypt.​

Moses Born	Moses 40		Moses 80		Moses 120
1525 B.C.	1485 B.C.		1445 B.C.		1405 B.C.
Ex 2:1-10	Acts 7:23-24	Acts 7:29-30	1 Ki 6:1	Num 32:13	Deu 34:7
Found by Pharaoh's daughter​	Moses kills the Egyptian	40 Years spent in Midian Pharaoh dies (Ex 2:23)	Leads Exodus from Egypt	40 Years spent in the wilderness	Dies in Moab
Tutmoses I (had no son's, only a daughter)	Hatshepsut Tutmoses II	Tutmoses III	Tutmoses IV (not first born)	Akhenaten (changes religion)

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Pharaoh​	Moses​
Ahmoses (the moon is born)	Founder of the 18th dynasty. Defeated the Hyksos and regained all Egypt. Initiated building work at Karnak
Amenhotep I (Ammun is pleased) Tutmoses I (born of Thoth)	Son of Amoses.	Aaron, brother of Moses is born (about 1533 B.C.)
This is the pharaoh who issued the decree that all the infant sons born to the Israelites were to be thrown into the river Nile, but that infant girls were permitted to live. (Exodus 1:22)	Moses born (about 1525 B.C.) and found in the Nile in Memphis (Ex 2:5-9) Moses named by Princess Nefure (Hatchepsut) (Ex 2:10). "Senmut" is another Egyptian name given to Moses when he came to live at the palace.
The third king of the 18th Dynasty Tutmoses I was a commoner by birth. He had married Ahmose, a sister of Amenhotep I, and was named king when the king died childless. Tutmoses I had no sons, but was the father of Nefure (Hatshepsut), the princess who is the most likely candidate for having found Moses in the Nile.	In Serabit El-Khadim there was erected a stele in the 11th year of reign. It bears the image of Princess Neferure and it is to her, oddly enough, that the regnal years are ascribed. She is accompanied by her steward Senenmut [Moses], bearing a fan. A.H.Gardiner, T.E.Peet and J.Cerny, The Inscriptions of Sinai, Part II (Oxford, 1955) pp.151-152.
First Pharaoh buried in the Valley of the Kings.	Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was powerful in speech and action. (Acts 7:22). Moses declines to become Pharaoh when Tutmoses I dies. (Heb 11:24)
Tutmoses II 22 years - Moses 32 Years his successor.	Senmut/Tutmoses II (Moses) is groomed to become pharaoh. He is the architect of Deir El Bahri, the mortuary temple of Hatshepsut.	Another name for Moses: Hatshepsut Xnem Amen (offspring of Hatshepsut by the god Amen).
Princess Nefure	Daughter of Tutmoses I. It is thought she was about age fifteen when her father died. Hatshepsut married her half-brother, Thutmose II, who had a son, Thutmose III, by a concubine/minor wife (Mutnofret). Co-ruled with Tutmoses III who was only a child when Tutmoses II died. Tutmoses III was the illegitimate son of Tutmoses II (not a son of Hatshepsut).	The last that we hear of Senenmut (Moses) is in year 16 of Hatshepsut's reign. Moses when 40 years old slays an Egyptian (Ex 2:12) and flees Egypt (Ex 2:15) because pharaoh (Moses replacement) wanted to kill him.
At Deir El Bahri, there is a wall which depicts the birth of the future heir to the throne, one scene shows a baby boy in the arms of Hatshepsut-the infant Moses!	Tomb No. 71 at Deir El Bahri was first of two tombs intended for Moses (Senenmut). Tomb No. 353 was the second, but work stopped when he fled Egypt, and the tomb remains unfinished.
In 1488, six years prior to her death, all official records of Hatshepsut ceased.​	After Moses leaves for Midian he is replaced by the half brother of Hatshepsut, whom she marries. The half brother takes over the title of Tutmoses II, which used to be Moses' title.
Tutmoses III Amenhotep II Pharaoh when Moses first fled Egypt.	Assumed the position of Pharoah with the demise of Hatshepsut. (Moses was his competitor for the position of pharaoh). Tutmoses III was "The Napoleon of ancient Egypt and captured over 350 cities.	Moses in Midian
Hatshepsut's royal wall paintings in her mortuary temple at Deir el Bahri were defaced, and her statues were destroyed, because of the hatred Tutmoses III had for her and Moses.	Images of Senmut (Moses) also defaced by Tutmoses III, the childhood rival of Moses.
Amenemhab mentions the month and the day of Tutmoses III death: "The last day of the third month of the second season ... He mounted to heaven, he joined the sun: the divine limbs mingled with him who begat him." According to James Henry Breasted, founder of American Egyptology, this translates to the 17th of March, 1450 BC.	Exodus 2:23 states: "During that long period, the king of Egypt died...".
Tutmoses IV Pharaoh of the Exodus	Pharaoh of the Exodus. He was not a first born son, or else he would have died in the tenth plague too. He was the second born son of Amenhotep II. The Dream Stela of Thutmose IV, found between the front paws of the Sphinx, indicates he was not the firstborn legal heir to the throne, that he killed his firstborn brother to take the crown. The stele was used to legitimize the murder by claiming it was directed by the Sphinx in a dream. Thutmose IV/Amenhotep III may have perished with his army while pursuing Moses into the Red Sea. (Ex 14:27-28, Psa 136:15)	Moses returns (Ex 4:19) after 40 years in Midian (Acts 7:30) and leads Israel out of bondage after the first born of Egypt dies at Passover. (Ex. 12) Destruction of Jericho at about 1407 BC. According to "New Bible Evidence" by Sir Charles Marston, the scarab and pottery found in Jericho indicate it was destroyed at the time of Amenhotep III.
Tutankaten Tutankamun	In an inscription on a statue of a lion dedicated by Tutankhamen to the temple of Soleb, he calls Amenhotep III his father.	First born son of Pharaoh struck dead by the 10th plague of God! (Ex 12:29)​
Supposedly reigned from an age of only 9 until his death at about 18. Dies "mysteriously". Actually was only the heir apparent to the throne (Crowned Prince) that may have co-reigned with his father in his later years. Tomb found in the Valley of the Kings by Howard Carter in 1922, said to be a "cursed"tomb. His burial looks rushed, and in a tomb generally too small - not designed for a reigning pharaoh's burial.
Akhenaten	Akhenaten abruptly abandons the worship of the previous gods of Egypt. Amenhotep IV changed his name to Akhenaten, symbolizing the change from Amun worship to monotheistic Aten (Sun) worship. (Moses showed the former gods of Egypt to be powerless, hence the change to monotheism) Shifted his capital from Luxor to a new capital Akhetaten. His wife was the famous Nefertiti which means 'maiden of joy'.	In a song written by Akhenaten to his god, there are seventeen verses which correspond with Psalm 104.

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Statues of the infant Moses (Senmut)
and Princess Nefure (Hatshepsut)

SENMUT AND NEFERU-RA Egyptian Museum, Cairo​	SENMUT AND NEFERU-RA from Karnak Metropolitan Museum of Art, in New York​

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Egyptologists claim the infant in these statues is princess NEFERU-RA and the adult is Senmut, her vizir, but when she claimed Moses as her son, he became the child heir-apparent to the throne of Egypt. The child wears the serpent on the forehead and lock of hair on the right side of the head that designates a prince of Egypt! It is Moses!​

SENMUT AND NEFERU-RA Berlin Museum​	The Princess and Moses​

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As Moses grew to adulthood in Egypt, he assumed the title of Tutmoses II as heir to the throne of Egypt, but when he left Egypt after committing murder, he was replaced, and another man assumed that title. But statues of Moses as an adult apparently do still exist! On the left below is Moses as a child, and on the right is Moses as an adult, as Thutmoses II, prince of Egypt, before he left Egypt for Midian!​

​

SENMUT AND NEFERU-RA Egyptian Museum, Cairo​	Statue of TUTMOSIS II (Moses) Egyptian Museum, Cairo Note the Semitic nose!​

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The above information was compiled from many different sources, and this page will likely change to reflect corrections and any new information I come across.
Sources and Related Links:​

• Egypt and the Bible - http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/egypt.html
• Wyatt Archaeological Research - http://www.pilgrimpromo.com/WAR/discovered/html/chapter12.htm
• The Eighteenth Dynasty - http://touregypt.net/hdyn18a.htm
• Egyptian Kings - http://touregypt.net/kings.htm
• Senmut y Nefrure - http://www.egipto.com/museo/eshtml/232.html
• Theban Mapping Project - http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/

 

[HaShev]

Ok Penelope, someone found some archeologist research that proves a historical Moses and accurate biblical recording.
Using the Bible just to figure out the time lines in order to find the Historical woman who adopted him we find this:
Moses was born about 1525 B.C., and the daughter of the reigning Pharaoh (Tutmoses I) who found him in the Nile was princess Nefure, who later became known as Queen Hatshepsut, Pharaoh of Egypt.
Moses is found as the son held by her in Egyptian statues and was historically called
Tutmoses II which had a semitic nosed Egyptian statue as well. There's more elaborate info but you can look it up if you choose.

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 11

He was not a Pharisee, how many times must I tell you. According to the NT , he was the opposite of the Pharisee's and that is why they wanted Rome to put him to death.

I wonder what constitutes "the opposite of a Pharisee" in the addled brain of penelope

Matt 23, read it all , here is a verse of it,

27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of filth. 28 Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing.

oh yes he was a Pharisee, don't think so!!!!![/QUOTE]

the book off matthew was written about 70 years after Jesus died by an unknown person. It was written during a time when ROME was at war with Israel and emphasized the idea that "Christianity" is a religion FOR ROME------the people who fought against roman tyranny were the PHARISEES ----the people who kissed roman asses were SADDUCEES----like you good friend CAIAPHAS -----now grow a brain, Penelope. It is all there----in the book-----read it some day. I read it for the first time at about age 12-----even then
I had a far better grasp of its contents than
do you. The best one can say about matthew is "he was kissing up to the romans" as in ("yeah----the leader of this new religion I am trying to sell you hated DA JOOOOOS too")

 

[HaShev]

See there the word Pharisee is used as a type of person not a group, and as you said Matt is not the author so if it were to refer to a group by the enemies of that group and not a legit Jewish author then Penelope proved how easy it is for Rome to swallow it's enemies through demonization when becoming the new authority of the faith. And we have former evidence of this technique by Rome on other cultures.

 

[irosie91]

See there the word Pharisee is used as a type of person not a group, and as you said Matt is not the author so if it were to refer to a group by the enemies of that group and not a legit Jewish author then Penelope proved how easy it is for Rome to swallow it's enemies through demonization when becoming the new authority of the faith. And we have former evidence of this technique by Rome on other cultures.

Pharisee HAS BEEN USED by Nazi slobs for the past 1700 years as synonym to "JOOOOS" as synonym to "USURER
JOOO" "Christ killer jooo" "Talmud obsessed jooo" and "bubonic plague carrying jooo' The disgusting Nazi pig ---CONSTANTINE emperor of the FIRST
REICH made "Pharisee" a dirty word
as a feature of his Nazi regime THE 1st
REICH ----holy roman empire #1

 

[irosie91]

See there the word Pharisee is used as a type of person not a group, and as you said Matt is not the author so if it were to refer to a group by the enemies of that group and not a legit Jewish author then Penelope proved how easy it is for Rome to swallow it's enemies through demonization when becoming the new authority of the faith. And we have former evidence of this technique by Rome on other cultures.

Pharisee HAS BEEN USED by Nazi slobs for the past 1700 years as synonym to "JOOOOS" as synonym to "USURER
JOOO" "Christ killer jooo" "Talmud obsessed jooo" and "bubonic plague carrying jooo' The disgusting Nazi pig ---CONSTANTINE emperor of the FIRST
REICH made "Pharisee" a dirty word
as a feature of his Nazi regime THE 1st
REICH ----holy roman empire #1

anyone really interested in the motivations of whoever it was who wrote the book of Matthew----should note: The book of matthew was written in greek.. Greek was the language that the ROMANS considered the language of INTELLECT.
Of course I am not asking Penelope to actually READ the book-----but for the record it's major theme is ----CHRISTIANITY FOR THE WORLD (mostly that meant for rome which by that time really despised DA JOOOOOS)
historical context is so interesting-----
SPEAKING OF WHICH ----I wonder if Penelope ever wondered about the actual
historical context of the badly translated
verse she uses as her signature------well--I am sure she did not-----too damned stupid and too damned shallow