Supporting Kurdish independence

[ima]

I think Kurds should just stick to making their cheese. Turkey is a NATO country who let the Americans use their bases over and over. The Yankees MIGHT let you have a piece of Iraq once they take all the oil, but forget about Turkey, it's never going to happen.

 

[Saigon]

Kurds live in the 19 centuries in turkey, no freedom, not allowed to talk Kurdish , no Kurdish names , this all happening during the so called arab spring.

Kurds need to have their own spring in north Kurdistan in turkey.

I think a lot of people would agree with that - I know I would.

I am so happy that Armenians finaly have their own country, even it is smaller than it should be.

I also have to say, though, that I think Turkey is a wonderful country, and certainly one of the best countries in the world to travel in, contrary to what some people have said on this thread.

 

[FckingAmazing]

Kurds live in the 19 centuries in turkey, no freedom, not allowed to talk Kurdish , no Kurdish names , this all happening during the so called arab spring.

Kurds need to have their own spring in north Kurdistan in turkey.

I think a lot of people would agree with that - I know I would.

I am so happy that Armenians finaly have their own country, even it is smaller than it should be.

I also have to say, though, that I think Turkey is a wonderful country, and certainly one of the best countries in the world to travel in, contrary to what some people have said on this thread.

so you support pkk ? If you do , yes you are responsible for Terrorist bombs .

If you want a right there is a parliamentery not the bombs .,

PKK doesn't represent Kurdish people in Turkey

just come and see how is the situation in Turkey.

if you read my past comments you can have a clue about Turkey and PKK .

Turkey lived coup times by a group of people which is called ' ERGENEKON ' but these people now in front of judgment , at this time they ruined democracy not just for Kurdish people but for all people .
it's been while that situation changed , Kurdish people have their rights , and in Turkey Kurdish people want to get rid of PKK.

 

[Saigon]

FA -

I don't support the PKK, but I do support the concept of a Kurdish state.

In much the same way as I support the concept of a Palestinian state, but do not support Hamas or Hezbollah.

If the PKK commit to peaceful protest, then I would support them.

btw. I have been to Turkey perhaps 10 - 12 times, and travelled as far as south-east as Diyarbakir, as far north-east as Trabzon, and also through Capadoccia and to places like Safranbolu, Nemrut etc.

 

[FckingAmazing]

I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?

The PKK are terrorists. They are also strongly anti-democratic.

The kurdish people in Turkey have legitimate grievances and I support their right to self-determination. But the PKK would be e'ven worse than Turkey.

Calling the PKK the largest Kurdish armed independence movement is not really accurate. What about the Kurdish movements in iraq?

yes it's true , this is why Turkey support kurdish people in Syria not the PKK . But Turkey will never let The Terrorist group PKK in Middle East and i think no one in the world want a terrorist state in Earth.

 

[FckingAmazing]

FA -

I don't support the PKK, but I do support the concept of a Kurdish state.

In much the same way as I support the concept of a Palestinian state, but do not support Hamas or Hezbollah.

If the PKK commit to peaceful protest, then I would support them.

btw. I have been to Turkey perhaps 10 - 12 times, and travelled as far as south-east as Diyarbakir, as far north-east as Trabzon, and also through Capadoccia and to places like Safranbolu, Nemrut etc.

this is okay i agree with you , what do you think about that Turkey support Kurdish , Arab all people in Syria but not the PKK terrorist group ?
In Turkey there is 80.000 defector syrian people now.

I want to say that this guy represent a terrorist group not the Kurdish people , the important thing is that.

don't think Turkey like Iraq , Iran , Libya etc. Turkey's situation like US. US have a lot of nations but lives in together by democracy . Also they have black and white thing.

Turkey always want democracy in the middle east , of course there is racist Turks as there is in all over the world , it doesn't mean all Turkish people racist.
For example we all know what CHP(REPUBLICAN PEOPLE'S PARTY) did in 1930 to do Dersim people , in the past some fascist people may have been bad things , as white people do to black people .
The importing thing is that we changed or not . At least no more deaths no more terrorism.

Turkey apologises for 1930s killing of thousands of Kurds - Telegraph

 

[kirkuki]

FA -

I don't support the PKK, but I do support the concept of a Kurdish state.

In much the same way as I support the concept of a Palestinian state, but do not support Hamas or Hezbollah.

If the PKK commit to peaceful protest, then I would support them.

btw. I have been to Turkey perhaps 10 - 12 times, and travelled as far as south-east as Diyarbakir, as far north-east as Trabzon, and also through Capadoccia and to places like Safranbolu, Nemrut etc.

this is okay i agree with you , what do you think about that Turkey support Kurdish , Arab all people in Syria but not the PKK terrorist group ?
In Turkey there is 80.000 defector syrian people now.

I want to say that this guy represent a terrorist group not the Kurdish people , the important thing is that.

don't think Turkey like Iraq , Iran , Libya etc. Turkey's situation like US. US have a lot of nations but lives in together by democracy . Also they have black and white thing.

Turkey always want democracy in the middle east , of course there is racist Turks as there is in all over the world , it doesn't mean all Turkish people racist.
For example we all know what CHP(REPUBLICAN PEOPLE'S PARTY) did in 1930 to do Dersim people , in the past some fascist people may have been bad things , as white people do to black people .
The importing thing is that we changed or not . At least no more deaths no more terrorism.

Turkey apologises for 1930s killing of thousands of Kurds - Telegraph

PKK now only attacks turkish army , not civilians, turkish army has once again started killing kurdish civilians (35 kurds were massacred last year in Roboski amd 7 civilians kurds killed in KRG, youtube them).

when kurds get autonomy on their ancestral land in turkey only then the Kurdish armed struggle will end, until that happens have a nice day.

 

[kirkuki]

Arnold looking at the map of "greater Kurdistan"

 

[Saigon]

Kirkuki -

I notice your map would create a state about the size of Canada...including some areas more historically linked more to Armenia and Kurdistan.

Do you think a state sbout half that size might be more appropriate?

 

[kirkuki]

@Saigon

we can settle those areas via a refereundum which turks are clueless about.

@FckingAmazing

there is no such thing as lies or propaganda by kurds towards turkish aggression towards 20 million kurds in northern kurdistan of turkey, if any of you watch this video i posted you will see who is the liar and propagandist here .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPyVjV3xzMY&feature=player_embedded#

 

[kirkuki]

Another mass grave found in Betlis

BETLIS, -- Another mass grave was found in which 24 bodies of PKK guerrillas were dumped in. The mass grave was found in Xarpesh Mountain in Mutki region of Betlis province.

It is reported that following heavy clashes between the PKK guerrillas and the Turkish army in 1996, the bodies of 24 slain guerrillas were dumped into a mass grave in Xarpesh Mountain, which found today.

According to the eye witnesses who did not want their identity revealed, 24 PKK guerrillas 9 of them female, were ambushed by Turkish army in 1996 and killed in Xarpesh Mountain.

Hesen Ceylan the local representative of IHD said this is not the first time they have discovered mass grave. “There are numerous mass graves in Betlis,” he said and continued, “Against the amount of mass graves existing in Xarpesh Mountains, the humanity is feeling ashamed.”

Another mass grave found in Betlis

 

[kirkuki]

More racist attacks on Kurds

NEWSDESK, -- Attacks on the Kurds have increased in Turkey following the racist remarks made by Turkey Foreign Minister in which he regarded attacks against the Kurds as ordinary and demanded increase in such attacks.

Neqim Shadin Turkey’s Foreign Minister said attacks on Kurds are something normal that should be increased. The Kurdish residents of Skarya were subject to racist attack following such a remark.

It was reported that a group of six Turks attacked a Kurdish family yesterday and beaten a member of their family in front of everyone.

In the meantime hundreds of Turks chanted racist and anti-Kurdish slogans and attacked the Kurds on their way. It is reported that 18 Kurds were injured in the attacks.

More racist attacks on Kurds


KURDS HAVE HAD ENUFF OF RACIST FROM TURKS THEY WANT OUT, THAT IS IT

 

[editec]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter, Siagon.

Few Americans really know enough about the fate of the Kurds, their history or the state of their lives now, to really weigh in on this question.

The Kurds are a unique people with their own language and customs and have been so for at least as long as Islam has existed.

They have had their own nations and or city states and once were independent.

But they are victims of geography and history and have usually be under the yoke of some foreign power or culture.

I think they deserve recognition both as a people and a culture as therefore deserve a nation state.

Of course Turkey Iran and Iraq aren't much into the idea of granting these people the right to control the land they have been living on and associated with for at least the last 1400 years.

According to you we can divide Turkey maybe 30 part , and we divide America 50

If one wants to know what I want, it might make better sense to read what I write rather than what the voices in your head are telling you I want, don't you think?

lets every race have a new country ...

It's called the right of self determination, and FYI, its the idea isn't exactly radical, or for that matter new, either.

 

[kirkuki]

Could a state for Greater Kurdistan be on the horizon?

Millions of Kurds, observing the meeting of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) in Tehran last week, must have thought: "What about us? What about our non-aligned nation to be? We should be there. Maybe next time..."

It may be just possible that Kurds - which themselves admit their notoriety for internal squabble - are finally getting their act together; after all, history may be dictating, roughly a century after World War I and its aftermath, which dealt a big blow to Kurds. This is the last chance for the emergence of a Greater Kurdistan.

After the two Syrian Kurdish parties made a deal - sealed by Iraqi Kurdistan President Masoud Barzani - to jointly run northeast Syria, Kurdish parties in Iran are also coming together.

Meanwhile, Ankara behaves like a bunch of headless chickens.

Kurds are carefully paying attention to how Ankara decided to boycott NAM - even though Turkish President Abdullah Gul was personally invited by Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Egypt's President Mohammed Morsi proposed a Syria contact group - Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iran - to try to solve the Syrian tragedy.

This means that Egypt - under a Muslim Brotherhood president - privileges mediation for a civil war inside a fellow Arab country, while Turkey sticks to a colour-blind regime change strategy, which would only be possible with a NATO no-fly zone (it won't happen).

So the pressing question for the Kurds becomes how to profit from Ankara's each and every move.

And the winner is... Israel

Not even Turkish public opinion knows what exactly are the contours of Ankara's policy for Syria - apart from regime change. President Gul claims that Damascus weaponises PKK guerrillas (there's absolutely no evidence), and that would be a casus belli.

Damascus for its part does not want a war with Turkey.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu - he of the defunct "zero problems with our neighbours" doctrine - is still toeing the line that the country could not accept more than 100,000 Syrian refugees (there are already 70,000 and counting); in this case, some fuzzy "safe haven" would have to be installed in Syrian territory. This Thursday, Ankara will press the complexities of the refugee crisis at a ministerial-level meeting at the UN.

Ankara has insistently accused both Damascus and Tehran of supporting PKK guerrillas active in Anatolia and the porous border areas. Yet at the same time, Ankara has developed a quite secretive narrative; Turkey, once again, is aligned with Israel's strategy (the Mavi Marmara incident is now water under the bridge).
Talk to Al Jazeera -
Massoud Barzani: Flying the Kurdish flag

Tel Aviv avidly bets on Ankara becoming the hegemonic regional power in the - still hazy - event of a post-Assad Syria. As Israel has been deeply infiltrated in Iraqi Kurdistan for years, with very good connections - the Mossad uses it as an operational base against Syria and Iran - this will be manipulated as a bargaining chip to seduce Ankara.

Meanwhile, in Syria, the red, green and yellow Kurdish flag is now flying in places like Girke Lege - only 35 kilometres from the Iraqi border and only 15 kilometres from the Turkish border. Over 3 million Syrian Kurds now see an ideal opening to revert the official Ba'ath Party Arabisation policy.

The Kurdish PYD (Democratic Union Party) President Salah Muslim vehemently denies that there was a tacit agreement with the Bashar al-Assad government. But in fact there was; as long as Syrian Kurds don't attack Damascus forces, they can do whatever they want in Western/Syrian Kurdistan, which by now is assuming the contours of a an autonomous region.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, by the way, has already delivered the message to Ankara; even in a post-Assad Syria, this should be seen as a fact on the ground. And it happens to dovetail with Israel's charm offensive among Kurds - emphasising what would be their common agenda.

So what can Ankara do? Invade? Kurdish blowback is bound to be devastating.

Despite official rumblings, Turkish options for invading Western/Syrian Kurdistan are not exactly stellar. The Turkish army's morale is low - after the purge of several ranking Kemalists. Over 60 generals are in jail, accused of plotting a coup - and lower-ranking officials may even try it again. Alevis and Kurdish conscripts will refuse to fight an AKP-incited war. And the Turkish economy - not to mention tourism - will inevitably go down the drain.

Is there a leader in the house?

One can imagine whether Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) President Barzani's political scheming will be enough for him to embrace the Angel of History, and rise to the occasion.

He certainly sees a Greater Kurdistan independent from Arabs, Persians and Turks. But for that to happen in a grand scale he would have to conduct himself as a unifier - not only sharing power inside Iraqi Kurdistan but also managing conflicting Kurdish aspirations in Syria, Iran and Turkey. This implies a visionary streak plus tremendous diplomatic skills.

What's certain is that Washington and Tel Aviv are on board; this implies that Brussels sooner or later will follow. BRICS members Russia and China are not exactly against it. There are two possibilities here. A Greater Kurdistan forged as a model for the Middle East - in terms of a secular, dynamic, progressive entity respectful of religious minorities. Or yet another Western stooge.

A major geopolitical volcano is erupting. Ankara certainly has not analysed the blowback of weaponising Syrian Sunnis just for the weapons to find their way back into Turkey to be used by the PKK against Ankara itself.

This anti-imperialist analysis may be very useful to understand the Kurdish dynamic. But there's still much more to it.

Jeremy Salt, professor of History and Politics of the Middle East at Bilkent University, Ankara, and author of The Unmaking of the Middle East, in a conversation with La Stampa's world news editor Claudio Gallo, neatly summarised it:

"In 1918 the imperial powers divided the Middle East in a certain way that suited their interests at the time. They are now remapping it again - and again to suit their interests. It is not coincidental that this programme dovetails with Israel's own long-term strategic planning. Russia and China are fully aware of what is going on, which is why the present situation can be seen as a 21st century extension of the 'Eastern question' or of the 'Great Game' between Russia and Britain."

Make no mistake; each day makes it more likely that an unintended - or rather intended - consequence of this Great Game remix will be the emergence of Greater Kurdistan.

Pepe Escobar is the roving correspondent for Asia Times. His latest book is named Obama Does Globalistan (Nimble Books, 2009).

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

Could a state for Greater Kurdistan be on the horizon? - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

 

[ima]

Arnold looking at the map of "greater Kurdistan"

But what does AHHHnold think? Will he be back to help?

The size of Canada, lol, Saigon is always good for a laugh. As long as the kurds send wood to finland, you'll have their blessing I'm sure.

As for kurdistan, you'll never get it through a vote, only by taking the land by force. Good luck with that, NATO will kick your ass.

 

[kirkuki]

turks do not respect the dead

pkk freedom fighter been dragged by chicken turkish soldiers.

 

[kirkuki]

The size of Canada, lol, Saigon is always good for a laugh. As long as the kurds send wood to finland, you'll have their blessing I'm sure.

As for kurdistan, you'll never get it through a vote, only by taking the land by force. Good luck with that, NATO will kick your ass.

we took western (Syrian) Kurdistan without firing a bullet didn't we ?? we just wait for the right moment, turkey is not going to be in NATO till end of the world .

 

[ima]

The size of Canada, lol, Saigon is always good for a laugh. As long as the kurds send wood to finland, you'll have their blessing I'm sure.

As for kurdistan, you'll never get it through a vote, only by taking the land by force. Good luck with that, NATO will kick your ass.

we took western (Syrian) Kurdistan without firing a bullet didn't we ?? we just wait for the right moment, turkey is not going to be in NATO till end of the world .

You live in a fantasy world if you think you're getting a piece of Turkey. Syria, nobody cares, Iraq, nobody cares. Iran will cut your fucking balls off in a heartbeat and Turkey is backed by NATO and when was the last time the Americans gave up something willingly? Never.

 

[Roudy]

Kirkuki -

I notice your map would create a state about the size of Canada...including some areas more historically linked more to Armenia and Kurdistan.

Do you think a state sbout half that size might be more appropriate?

Saigoon:

I notice your map would create a state about the size of Canada...

Stupid fucking ignorant moron! Ha ha ha!

 

[FckingAmazing]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter, Siagon.

Few Americans really know enough about the fate of the Kurds, their history or the state of their lives now, to really weigh in on this question.

The Kurds are a unique people with their own language and customs and have been so for at least as long as Islam has existed.

They have had their own nations and or city states and once were independent.

But they are victims of geography and history and have usually be under the yoke of some foreign power or culture.

I think they deserve recognition both as a people and a culture as therefore deserve a nation state.

Of course Turkey Iran and Iraq aren't much into the idea of granting these people the right to control the land they have been living on and associated with for at least the last 1400 years.

If one wants to know what I want, it might make better sense to read what I write rather than what the voices in your head are telling you I want, don't you think?

lets every race have a new country ...

It's called the right of self determination, and FYI, its the idea isn't exactly radical, or for that matter new, either.

no need to discuss i just wanted to show the difference a terrorist and a kurdish guy.
For the rest we people in Turkey supporting Kurdish people.

The point is are you supporting PKK or not ? If you do , you are contributing for terrorism .

PKK doesn't represent Kurdish people we should know this.

In Turkey AKP (Justice and Development Party ) represents Kurdish people If you research.