TAPS- Why America is Not Coming Back

[Asclepias]

[qu

I have been Six Sigma, ASQ Certified, RABSQA Certified, CE Trademarking Certified ... Worked with Corporations from building materials to pharmaceuticals here and overseas as a Quality Consultant.

Your bullshit just doesn't fly peanut ... You must have lost your copy of "Who Moved The Cheese".

Edit:
I have seen more employees advance from hourly to salary through implementation of new processes and procedures than through any other means of replacement or promotion.
Talking about life changing position moves that help those employees in ways their co-workers can only dream about ... That's what happens when you apply yourself and make it happen.

.

I moved from hourly to Salary. That's just another way they rip you off.

I was much better off when I was on hourly.

Sorry, snookums, you can bend over and kiss the man's ass all day, but those of us with sense realize the guy in the corner office isn't your friend, and when he slaps you on the back, he's just looking for a place to stick a knife.

It's a lesson it took me far too long to learn.

The lesson you should really learn is to become a producer yourself. As long as the capitalistic system is around it needs consumers and producers. The producers always run the show. The consumers work to be able to afford the products they create.

 

[Stephanie]

[

You got it! They love John Kerry Heinz, that didn't work for his money, they worship Ted Kennedy, who never worried about a mortgage, his biggest concern was making sure he didn't spend time in the slammer like his cousin. You don't say anything about Barney Frank, who helped his boyfriend run a brothel and helped destroy Fannie and Freddie.

The Democrats want to keep the poor, poor while the rich get the breaks and the corporate welfare.

Kerry and Kennedy used their wealth to help the working guy.

Romney used his to fuck the working guy over. And then he bragged, "I liked to fire people" and expounded on how wonderful it was that he had 120 Chinese babes behind barbed wire working to make him richer.

Oh, yeah, and with that Avatar, do you really want to spend time obsessing over Barney Frank's sex life?

Yeah sure they did
That cracks me up you people come off with that

 

[zeke]

Can you outline exactly how the standard of living has declined?

There is so much crap we now take for granted, things that would be rich man's toys now the common man's necessity. When I see workers at Burger King filling my order with a smart phones sticking out of their back pockets I really wonder how much of a decline our society is suffering.

When I was a young man (early 70ties) I could go out and find a job with no difficulty that would pay me enough to live and prosper on. After a couple years in this job, I could buy a nice decent house in a decent neighborhood. maybe a new car. Nice household goods.
No problem. I did it with a high school education.

Fast forward to today. When my future SIL and daughter graduate from college, he will be lucky to find a job that lets he and my daughter pay a cheap rent on a house I will provide. They drive and will continue to drive POS cars. They will rely on my wife and I for back up if things get to tight. They will be one paycheck and one job away from financial disaster. And if they lose their jobs, it could be weeks or months before they can find another.

If I lost or quit my job back in the 70ties, with in a day, I would have another job. Maybe a better job.

That is a declining standard of living from the 70ties to the 2014 period. IMO. I could have a variety of good paying jobs with only a high school education. Today college grads have a hard time finding any job that pays above minimum wage.

You don't think that is a decline?

If your SIL had decided to be a welder instead of a college graduate ... He could be making $50 an hour in North Dakota right now ... And far more than minimum wage in many other places.
He would also have a company truck with paid gas to and from work ... Leaving more income to afford a house and better vehicle for your daughter.

The standard of living did change ... But so did the expectations of people.
If you waste your time preparing for a career that won't provide you with what you need or want ... Then that is your fault.
If you expect to leave college and walk right into a job that pays you enough to have everything you want ... Then I don't see where that correlates with the standards they had when my parents were growing up.

I will tell other young people right now ... If you want fancy cars, phones, clothes and to live high on the hog ... You better start doing something that will earn you that kind of lifestyle.
Making your parents sacrifice more of their earnings to support your desires ... Is also a sign of how they failed to teach you proper money management ... And the ability to put what needs to be done or had before what you want to do.
It is possible to live a prosperous lifestyle today ... But nobody is going to hand it to you and you better get to work making it happen.

.

I don't know or want to know what you do for a living. What I have always done, no matter what job I have had, is continue to work with my hands. And I am good with my hands.
I have an aptitude for working with my hands. Mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, machinist. Even welder for a short time. Though truthfully, not a very good welder.

Do you know what "aptitude" is? My future SIL has no aptitude for working with his hands.
I have tried to teach him basics in mechanics and carpentry. Ain't happening.

So yea, do I wish he had skill sets for working with his hands. Absolutely. I want that for lots of young men I have met.

But you know what? When I grew up (back in the dark ages) every single high school in the city I lived in had a variety of shops that students had to attend and learn from. I got my machinist apprenticeship while still in high school. You could be a mechanic, printer, machinist, or carpenter. Drafting and electronics were also offered.

Those courses are no longer offered. And haven't been offered for years. And if you don't learn some of those skills and have in interest in them when you are young, then you look to college to give you a skill set to make a living. And from what I have seen, college is more geared to getting money than teaching how to make money.

That is a declining standard of living. When the schools young men attend no longer teach and train for skill sets that are in demand, that they can make a decent living doing them, when they used to do that automatically, that is a declining standard.

And that was the topic; a declining standard of living. Because the education needed isn't the education offered.

That is a decline.

I wish my future SIL was a doctor or a lawyer. That ain't happening either. But he still wants to be a hard worker, good provider and make a decent living. Nothing wrong with that.

Just a lot harder to do today. That is the decline.

 

[SteadyMercury]

That is a declining standard of living from the 70ties to the 2014 period. IMO. I could have a variety of good paying jobs with only a high school education.

You then went on to say you are skilled as a mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, machinist. There is a shortage of skilled trades right now, I submit the same applies today as it did in for you in the 70s: you could have a variety of well paying jobs with only a high school education, and could buy a house same as before. In fact I bet that house would be more energy efficient, and you'd have a computer, and a cell phone, and 200 channels o your TV, and a car that gets better mileage, is safer, and far more reliable.

Decline indeed.

When my future SIL and daughter graduate from college, he will be lucky to find a job that lets he and my daughter pay a cheap rent on a house I will provide. They drive and will continue to drive POS cars. They will rely on my wife and I for back up if things get to tight. They will be one paycheck and one job away from financial disaster. And if they lose their jobs, it could be weeks or months before they can find another

I think you're being a bit dramatic here.

From Salary Survey: Average Starting Salary for Class of 2013 Grads Increases 2.4 Percent the average starting wages for graduating class of 2013 is a bit over $45k.

Sure the job search is tougher because we still face an unemployment problem that has hit recent college grads hard, but as recently as the 2006 we had full employment so unless you are suggesting this decline started in the past seven years it is more a function of a massive recession that we're still slowly attempting to climb out of.

Tell me this, do your kids who are suffering from this decline of standard of living own smart phones and computers? What did they major in in college? Why didn't they go to a trade school to learn skills like you have?

 

[BlackSand]

I don't know or want to know what you do for a living. What I have always done, no matter what job I have had, is continue to work with my hands. And I am good with my hands.
I have an aptitude for working with my hands. Mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, machinist. Even welder for a short time. Though truthfully, not a very good welder.

Do you know what "aptitude" is? My future SIL has no aptitude for working with his hands.
I have tried to teach him basics in mechanics and carpentry. Ain't happening.

So yea, do I wish he had skill sets for working with his hands. Absolutely. I want that for lots of young men I have met.

But you know what? When I grew up (back in the dark ages) every single high school in the city I lived in had a variety of shops that students had to attend and learn from. I got my machinist apprenticeship while still in high school. You could be a mechanic, printer, machinist, or carpenter. Drafting and electronics were also offered.

Those courses are no longer offered. And haven't been offered for years. And if you don't learn some of those skills and have in interest in them when you are young, then you look to college to give you a skill set to make a living. And from what I have seen, college is more geared to getting money than teaching how to make money.

That is a declining standard of living. When the schools young men attend no longer teach and train for skill sets that are in demand, that they can make a decent living doing them, when they used to do that automatically, that is a declining standard.

And that was the topic; a declining standard of living. Because the education needed isn't the education offered.

That is a decline.

I wish my future SIL was a doctor or a lawyer. That ain't happening either. But he still wants to be a hard worker, good provider and make a decent living. Nothing wrong with that.

Just a lot harder to do today. That is the decline.

Welding was an example and certainly not a cure all.
If everyone was a welder then there wouldn't be a demand for welders.

I know what aptitude is ... And what I do makes no difference towards anyone else's aptitude.
If it did ... I would suggest that everyone spend 3-7 years in the military and gain skills that will help them advance in whatever field they choose afterwards.
It would also give them the opportunity to understand that most things are not impossible ... And "can't" never did anything.

Applying yourself increases your aptitude towards any occupational advancement ... And what is declining is the push necessary to unseat half-assed wanna-be's and get them moving.
My first job was as a draftsman for a civil engineer in high school (so the courses are still available).
My degree (earned with the GI Bill) is a Bachelor's of Science in Psychology.
It makes a wonderful wall decoration in my office and that is about all it is worth.

The problem is that most young people want to be doctors, lawyers, CEO's or high paid executives ... And have the stupid idea that comes just as a result of having a college degree ... There is no longer the idea that you work your way up.
A degree is necessary to even be looked at for just about any kind of job now ... So what makes young think they are going to leave school and walk into a job that fills their every need?

If your objection to the situation is what education is offered ... Well thank the damn government for that ... Because that is their plan.

If your SIL wants to be a hard worker and good provider making a decent living ... Tell him to find something he loves and open a business doing it ... Or providing goods and services for those who do.
It is as simple as that ... And the second you start making excuses about how it cannot be done ... Is the instant you can point a finger right back at the problem.
Either do what is necessary to make what needs to happen come about ... Or shut up whining about it being someone else's fault.

.

 

[zeke]

I don't know or want to know what you do for a living. What I have always done, no matter what job I have had, is continue to work with my hands. And I am good with my hands.
I have an aptitude for working with my hands. Mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, machinist. Even welder for a short time. Though truthfully, not a very good welder.

Do you know what "aptitude" is? My future SIL has no aptitude for working with his hands.
I have tried to teach him basics in mechanics and carpentry. Ain't happening.

So yea, do I wish he had skill sets for working with his hands. Absolutely. I want that for lots of young men I have met.

But you know what? When I grew up (back in the dark ages) every single high school in the city I lived in had a variety of shops that students had to attend and learn from. I got my machinist apprenticeship while still in high school. You could be a mechanic, printer, machinist, or carpenter. Drafting and electronics were also offered.

Those courses are no longer offered. And haven't been offered for years. And if you don't learn some of those skills and have in interest in them when you are young, then you look to college to give you a skill set to make a living. And from what I have seen, college is more geared to getting money than teaching how to make money.

That is a declining standard of living. When the schools young men attend no longer teach and train for skill sets that are in demand, that they can make a decent living doing them, when they used to do that automatically, that is a declining standard.

And that was the topic; a declining standard of living. Because the education needed isn't the education offered.

That is a decline.

I wish my future SIL was a doctor or a lawyer. That ain't happening either. But he still wants to be a hard worker, good provider and make a decent living. Nothing wrong with that.

Just a lot harder to do today. That is the decline.

Welding was an example and certainly not a cure all.
If everyone was a welder then there wouldn't be a demand for welders.

I know what aptitude is ... And what I do makes no difference towards anyone else's aptitude.
If it did ... I would suggest that everyone spend 3-7 years in the military and gain skills that help them advance in whatever field they choose afterwards.
It would also give them the opportunity to understand that most things are not impossible ... And "can't" never did anything.

Applying yourself increases your aptitude towards any occupational advancement ... And what is declining is the push necessary to unseat half-assed wanna-be's and get them moving.
My first job was as a draftsman for a civil engineer in high school (so the courses are still available).
My degree (earned with the GI Bill) is a Bachelor's of Science in Psychology.
It makes a wonderful wall decoration in my office and that is about all it is worth.

The problem is that most young people want to be doctors, lawyers, CEO's or high paid executives ... And have the stupid idea that comes just as a result of having a college degree ... There is no longer the idea that you work your way up.
A degree is necessary to even be looked at for just about any kind of job now ... So what makes young think they are going to leave school and walk into a job that fills their every need?

If your objection to the situation is what education is offered ... Well thank the damn government for that ... Because that is their plan.

If your SIL wants to be a hard worker and good provider making a decent living ... Tell him to find something he loves and open a business doing it ... Or providing goods and services for those who do.
It is as simple as that ... And the second you start making excuses about how it cannot be done ... Is the instant you can point a finger right back at the problem.
Either do what is necessary to make what needs to happen come about ... Or shut up whining about it being someone else's fault.

.[/QUOTE)

Dude, what's with the fucking attitude? All I said was that if there are jobs for machinists and carpenters and electricians (which there are), and employers can't find (which they can't) competent young men and women for entry level, good jobs in those fields, then the education system has failed the young men and women. It has DECLINED.

That lack of offering (at the high school level) or requiring education of this type represents a DECLINE in standards from recent times past. In my school district and the surrounding school districts (in Ohio) they do not have mandatory shop classes of any sort any more.

If your district has them still, good for you.

But you must be hanging with the high earners kids if all they want to do is be doctors and lawyers and CEO's and Indian Chiefs, cause the three college kids around my house and their friends, they just hope for a job in their career paths. Or maybe an internship when they first graduate. You know, so they can be the CEO in 6 months.

Again, I thought the topic was the declining standard of living here in America. If you think graduating from high school with out the correct skill sets to move into the job market and make a decent living, that NOT HAVING that education level does not represent a Decline in our standards, what can I say. Kids USED to be educated at the high school level to fill skilled trades and semi skilled tradesmen positions. Good middle class jobs.

Who you want to blame the decline in education on, that's a different topic.

But the kids I know are hard working achievers. Athletes, work full time. go to school full time. They will be fine. It's just not as easy.

Sounds like you've been around shit heads for kids? You know, if they're lazy and think they should have started at the top and so forth.

What can you say. Kids and declining standards.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The old America was based on a few rich people exploiting everyone else... and using race and religion to keep us fighting amongst ourselves.

Good riddance.

You're more full of shit than a bull. What a miserable life you must lead.

 

[JoeB131]

WRONG !!

Romney and Ryan and the GOP work on the philosophy of "I've Got Mine, i worked my ass off to get it, now get off your lazy asses and welfare, get a job. ...

Romney was born with a silver rolodex in his hands.

The man never had to worry about meeting a mortgage payment in his life.

As Rick Perry observed, the only time Mitt Romney had to worry about a pink slip is when he wondered if he would run out of them to hand out to other people.

And when he walked out there talking about how he liked to fire people and how half of us were moochers, we kicked his worthless Mormon Ass back to Utah where it belonged.

When he was talking about he liked to fire people, he was talking about his landscapers who were not working.

No, he wasn't.

He was talking about how his health plan involved firing a health insurance carrier, something most people really don't have the option to do. And he said this in front of other millionaires and it was recorded secretly.

You might be thinking of the time he fired illegals from his landscaping crew, and said to the contractor, "I can't have illegals here, I'm running for office, for Pete's Sake!"

Romney. So Many Gaffes, so hard to remember them all.

 

[JoeB131]

The old America was based on a few rich people exploiting everyone else... and using race and religion to keep us fighting amongst ourselves.

Good riddance.

You're more full of shit than a bull. What a miserable life you must lead.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

[JoeB131]

[

You got it! They love John Kerry Heinz, that didn't work for his money, they worship Ted Kennedy, who never worried about a mortgage, his biggest concern was making sure he didn't spend time in the slammer like his cousin. You don't say anything about Barney Frank, who helped his boyfriend run a brothel and helped destroy Fannie and Freddie.

The Democrats want to keep the poor, poor while the rich get the breaks and the corporate welfare.

Kerry and Kennedy used their wealth to help the working guy.

Romney used his to fuck the working guy over. And then he bragged, "I liked to fire people" and expounded on how wonderful it was that he had 120 Chinese babes behind barbed wire working to make him richer.

Oh, yeah, and with that Avatar, do you really want to spend time obsessing over Barney Frank's sex life?

Yeah sure they did
That cracks me up you people come off with that

Wow, some day, Staph, you might add substance to a thread.

Today isn't that day.

 

[zeke]

That is a declining standard of living from the 70ties to the 2014 period. IMO. I could have a variety of good paying jobs with only a high school education.

You then went on to say you are skilled as a mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, machinist. There is a shortage of skilled trades right now, I submit the same applies today as it did in for you in the 70s: you could have a variety of well paying jobs with only a high school education, and could buy a house same as before. In fact I bet that house would be more energy efficient, and you'd have a computer, and a cell phone, and 200 channels o your TV, and a car that gets better mileage, is safer, and far more reliable.

Decline indeed.

When my future SIL and daughter graduate from college, he will be lucky to find a job that lets he and my daughter pay a cheap rent on a house I will provide. They drive and will continue to drive POS cars. They will rely on my wife and I for back up if things get to tight. They will be one paycheck and one job away from financial disaster. And if they lose their jobs, it could be weeks or months before they can find another

I think you're being a bit dramatic here.

From Salary Survey: Average Starting Salary for Class of 2013 Grads Increases 2.4 Percent the average starting wages for graduating class of 2013 is a bit over $45k.

Sure the job search is tougher because we still face an unemployment problem that has hit recent college grads hard, but as recently as the 2006 we had full employment so unless you are suggesting this decline started in the past seven years it is more a function of a massive recession that we're still slowly attempting to climb out of.

Tell me this, do your kids who are suffering from this decline of standard of living own smart phones and computers? What did they major in in college? Why didn't they go to a trade school to learn skills like you have?

The middle class in this country has had a very flat wage cure for many years. Full employment at 10 bucks an hour is not the same as full employment at 15. Same number working for lower wages represent a decline in standards.

As to college starting wages, my SIL should start around 36k. I was making 36k with no experience in 1985. Three grand a month. Not bad, except for the debt they end up carrying for that 36k job.

More debt for lower pay represents a decline in the standard of living that Americans enjoyed just back in the 70ties. IMO.

And you know what, I am not sure what having the latest electronic gadget does for standards of living. Certainly it has become the biggest time waster on the planet and should be outlawed.

You know what, those gadgets DO represent a decline in standards. Hell people today can't even stand to be by themselves. For a few minutes. Would rather tweet bullshit rather than be alone and think.

Hmmm, kinda like a message board does.


That's a decline.

 

[BlackSand]

Dude, what's with the fucking attitude? All I said was that if there are jobs for machinists and carpenters and electricians (which there are), and employers can't find (which they can't) competent young men and women for entry level, good jobs in those fields, then the education system has failed the young men and women. It has DECLINED.

That lack of offering (at the high school level) or requiring education of this type represents a DECLINE in standards from recent times past. In my school district and the surrounding school districts (in Ohio) they do not have mandatory shop classes of any sort any more.

If your district has them still, good for you.

But you must be hanging with the high earners kids if all they want to do is be doctors and lawyers and CEO's and Indian Chiefs, cause the three college kids around my house and their friends, they just hope for a job in their career paths. Or maybe an internship when they first graduate. You know, so they can be the CEO in 6 months.

Again, I thought the topic was the declining standard of living here in America. If you think graduating from high school with out the correct skill sets to move into the job market and make a decent living, that NOT HAVING that education level does not represent a Decline in our standards, what can I say. Kids USED to be educated at the high school level to fill skilled trades and semi skilled tradesmen positions. Good middle class jobs.

Who you want to blame the decline in education on, that's a different topic.

But the kids I know are hard working achievers. Athletes, work full time. go to school full time. They will be fine. It's just not as easy.

Sounds like you've been around shit heads for kids? You know, if they're lazy and think they should have started at the top and so forth.

What can you say. Kids and declining standards.

What attitude ...

The one that says, "Go out there, shoot for the stars and earn the rewards you deserve"?
Or is the attitude you don't like the one that says, "Quit blaming society for your failure to instill the proper values in your children that will drive them to do what is necessary to excel"?

Mandatory shop classes don't suggest any support for what you tried to argue before about aptitude ... Make up your mind.
Not that I am necessarily for or against the idea ... But if you are going to argue a point stick to the same premise throughout.
I also have little to no say in what the school district offers … Especially since Common Core has taken over as the newest "best idea ever" … So it isn't necessarily good or bad for me.

I also didn't bring up education in context to the topic of the thread … You did … And if you don't want to talk about it here, then don't mention it.

We agree that the standards of living are declining … We just disagree on the cause.
Whatever kids I may or may not hang around … That doesn't address your failure to provide the ones you hang around with the encouragement and direction to overcome their difficulties.
You can make absent a foolish remarks about kids I might know … But in any case, the ones I personally know aren't asking their Mama for money to make it through the tough times.
The kids I know and have any influence over aren't driving POS cars … And their Daddy's aren't telling everyone in the world their children are failures … And then blaming it on a declining standard of living.

If the kids you know are fine … And will be fine … Then the standard of living hasn't changed.
It isn't any harder today than it was yesterday … There are just different requirements.
The kids I know are fine, hardworking and successful … The ones I was talking about where the kids who walk through my door looking for a job … And leave without one.

The standard of living is declining … And as I posted before … It is the direct result of of lowering expectations.
Anyone who sits there and complains about times being harder … Doesn't understand that people always think the times they are in are harder … And the obstacles that face them are more difficult.
The problem with the standard of living is in the fact parents are not teaching their children to overcome the difficulties in front of them … And allowing their children to coast along by supporting their inability to perform.
To survive and excel in the world today is the same as it was 500 years ago … You identify areas concern, adapt to changing situations and strive to excel … Or you get left behind.

.

 

[Old Rocks]

There are nations now with higher standards of living than the US. So what are these nations doing that we are not? And why have they surpassed us?

 

[Bfgrn]

That is a declining standard of living from the 70ties to the 2014 period. IMO. I could have a variety of good paying jobs with only a high school education.

You then went on to say you are skilled as a mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, machinist. There is a shortage of skilled trades right now, I submit the same applies today as it did in for you in the 70s: you could have a variety of well paying jobs with only a high school education, and could buy a house same as before. In fact I bet that house would be more energy efficient, and you'd have a computer, and a cell phone, and 200 channels o your TV, and a car that gets better mileage, is safer, and far more reliable.

Decline indeed.

When my future SIL and daughter graduate from college, he will be lucky to find a job that lets he and my daughter pay a cheap rent on a house I will provide. They drive and will continue to drive POS cars. They will rely on my wife and I for back up if things get to tight. They will be one paycheck and one job away from financial disaster. And if they lose their jobs, it could be weeks or months before they can find another

I think you're being a bit dramatic here.

From Salary Survey: Average Starting Salary for Class of 2013 Grads Increases 2.4 Percent the average starting wages for graduating class of 2013 is a bit over $45k.

Sure the job search is tougher because we still face an unemployment problem that has hit recent college grads hard, but as recently as the 2006 we had full employment so unless you are suggesting this decline started in the past seven years it is more a function of a massive recession that we're still slowly attempting to climb out of.

Tell me this, do your kids who are suffering from this decline of standard of living own smart phones and computers? What did they major in in college? Why didn't they go to a trade school to learn skills like you have?

This constant ignorant drone from the right parroting: "do they own smart phones and computers, big screen TV etc?" is laughable.

America Without a Middle Class

Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just plain out of work. One in nine families can't make the minimum payment on their credit cards. One in eight mortgages is in default or foreclosure. One in eight Americans is on food stamps. More than 120,000 families are filing for bankruptcy every month. The economic crisis has wiped more than $5 trillion from pensions and savings, has left family balance sheets upside down, and threatens to put ten million homeowners out on the street.

Families have survived the ups and downs of economic booms and busts for a long time, but the fall-behind during the busts has gotten worse while the surge-ahead during the booms has stalled out. In the boom of the 1960s, for example, median family income jumped by 33% (adjusted for inflation). But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an almost-imperceptible 1.6% increase for the typical family. While Wall Street executives and others who owned lots of stock celebrated how good the recovery was for them, middle class families were left empty-handed.

The crisis facing the middle class started more than a generation ago. Even as productivity rose, the wages of the average fully-employed male have been flat since the 1970s.

But core expenses kept going up. By the early 2000s, families were spending twice as much (adjusted for inflation) on mortgages than they did a generation ago -- for a house that was, on average, only ten percent bigger and 25 years older. They also had to pay twice as much to hang on to their health insurance.

To cope, millions of families put a second parent into the workforce. But higher housing and medical costs combined with new expenses for child care, the costs of a second car to get to work and higher taxes combined to squeeze families even harder. Even with two incomes, they tightened their belts. Families today spend less than they did a generation ago on food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and other flexible purchases -- but it hasn't been enough to save them. Today's families have spent all their income, have spent all their savings, and have gone into debt to pay for college, to cover serious medical problems, and just to stay afloat a little while longer.

Through it all, families never asked for a handout from anyone, especially Washington. They were left to go on their own, working harder, squeezing nickels, and taking care of themselves. But their economic boats have been taking on water for years, and now the crisis has swamped millions of middle class families.

The contrast with the big banks could not be sharper. While the middle class has been caught in an economic vise, the financial industry that was supposed to serve them has prospered at their expense. Consumer banking -- selling debt to middle class families -- has been a gold mine. Boring banking has given way to creative banking, and the industry has generated tens of billions of dollars annually in fees made possible by deceptive and dangerous terms buried in the fine print of opaque, incomprehensible, and largely unregulated contracts.

And when various forms of this creative banking triggered economic crisis, the banks went to Washington for a handout. All the while, top executives kept their jobs and retained their bonuses. Even though the tax dollars that supported the bailout came largely from middle class families -- from people already working hard to make ends meet -- the beneficiaries of those tax dollars are now lobbying Congress to preserve the rules that had let those huge banks feast off the middle class.

 

[SteadyMercury]

The middle class in this country has had a very flat wage cure for many years. Full employment at 10 bucks an hour is not the same as full employment at 15. Same number working for lower wages represent a decline in standards.

A flat wage curve that provides a standard of living with things the middle class couldn't dream of having when you were younger. You just take it for granted now.

More debt for lower pay represents a decline in the standard of living that Americans enjoyed just back in the 70ties. IMO.

Your continued bullshit about lower pay is exactly that, bullshit. You want to see how median household income compares to the glory days you recall growing up?

And you know what, I am not sure what having the latest electronic gadget does for standards of living. Certainly it has become the biggest time waster on the planet and should be outlawed.

Okay you've gone off the rails here and provide a perfect example of how people take shit for granted.

 

[SteadyMercury]

But core expenses kept going up. By the early 2000s, families were spending twice as much (adjusted for inflation) on mortgages than they did a generation ago -- for a house that was, on average, only ten percent bigger and 25 years older. They also had to pay twice as much to hang on to their health insurance.

Lol wtf?

Core expenses are food, clothing, healthcare, and transportation. The percentage of household income spent on these essentials is lower than it was a generation ago:

Percentage of income used for mortgage payment has hardly gone thru the roof:

You guys just keep wailing about how much are lives have declined but the numbers don't support it.

 

[zeke]

Hey steady, if you think middle class wages have not been flat for years now, well quite frankly, that makes you to fucking stupid to communicate with beyond this post.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, he doesn't.

Romney and Ryan and the GOP work on the philosophy of "I've Got Mine, Fuck You".

That kind of philosophy died in September 2008, when we all found out how close most of us are to the abyss.

Probably when we saw that despite all our hard work, we found ourselves with busted 401K's and underwater mortgages and reduced salaries while the 1% got bailouts and bonuses.

And then we caught Romney talking to a bunch of 1%ers who paid more for a single plate than most of us make in a year talk about how half of us are "moochers". A guy who pays 11% tax on his wealth while the rest of us are paying more.

The only thing that got Romney as close as he was is that a lot of you dumb rednecks getting shat upon by the 1% are too racist and religious to realize you are being crapped on.

You come off as jealous and spiteful

You don't mind rich guys as long as they are kidding you they care more for you than the GOP. The tired old lines are now boring...yawn. The moochers are a greatful bunch of takers that in 2008 was a huge voting block for all the wrong reasons.....gimme gimme gimme. If that floats your boat that's fine but your lack of self awareness is what confuses the rest of us

Dude...he IS jealous and spiteful. Not to mention evil and stupid.

 

[Jarlaxle]

That's incorrect.

Many of the loan agents actually lied to get their clients loans.

One of the things that the new regulations put an end to was that practice.

Which has you folks up in arms..

- Only a dumbass lets a loan officer convince them they have more money than they do.

-Geaux

Well no.

Most of these applications were submitted without perusal by the client.

Additionally "balloon payments" where not fully explained.

This is part of the reason why getting rid of Glass Steagall was a terrible idea.

But no conservative wants to see that come back. Fact is, they are fighting the Volcker Rule as well.

If you are too stupid to read a contract you sign, you deserve anything and everything that happens to you!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Romney and Ryan and the GOP work on the philosophy of "I've Got Mine, Fuck You".

WRONG !!

Romney and Ryan and the GOP work on the philosophy of "I've Got Mine, i worked my ass off to get it, now get off your lazy asses and welfare, get a job. ...

I am Republican, and I can tell you that is not our philosophy.

Personal accountability and personal responsibility are our philosophies.

Dude, just stop lying. You're as much a Republican as I am a unicorn.