Tax corporations like people

[auditor0007]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

 

[Mac1958]

Gee, it's kind of tough to shake the "rich corporations" meme when you get headlines like:

Corporate profits hit record as wages get squeezed

You're exactly right.

There are people who see a chart and story like that and somehow convince themselves that an overall corporate profit number is representative of every corporation. Evidently these people don't realize that profits are not monolithic, they are uneven across a spectrum. That things are just a touch more complicated than "all corporations are rich".

Either they don't realize it, or they don't want to realize it.

Imagine that.

.

 

[Seawytch]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

 

[LoneLaugher]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

They are paying less than ever. And half of this nation believes them when they say they are paying too much.....and buys the threat that they will leave the country if they are made to pay more. Even some SMART PEOPLE buy it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Gee, it's kind of tough to shake the "rich corporations" meme when you get headlines like:

Corporate profits hit record as wages get squeezed

You're exactly right.

There are people who see a chart and story like that and somehow convince themselves that an overall corporate profit number is representative of every corporation. Evidently these people don't realize that profits are not monolithic, they are uneven across a spectrum. That things are just a touch more complicated than "all corporations are rich".

Either they don't realize it, or they don't want to realize it.

Imagine that.

.

There you go again. Trying to saddle intelligent people with that brand of ignorance that you should reserve for those who consistently vote against their own best interests.

I know that all corporations are not rich. MINE IS NOT RICH. But the comments by 007 above are spot-fucking-on.

You have said that corporations will leave if we tax them more. I say that is bullshit...we used to tax them more....and they grew along with the power of the middle class. Check it out....true story.

 

[Mac1958]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

Sure, we can take away control of financial decision-making from a business, I suppose. I would have a few questions:

• How much cash would a corporation be "allowed" to keep for future needs and strategies?
• How quickly does the company have to spend the money?
• What if the company doesn't see a legitimate need for capital expenditures at any given time?
• What if the company prefers to look long term rather than short term?
• What about the rights of shareholders? Do they have a say in this?
• Will the government bail out companies it forced to spend money if the companies are in trouble?

Off the top of my head.

.

 

[Mac1958]

Gee, it's kind of tough to shake the "rich corporations" meme when you get headlines like:

Corporate profits hit record as wages get squeezed

You're exactly right.

There are people who see a chart and story like that and somehow convince themselves that an overall corporate profit number is representative of every corporation. Evidently these people don't realize that profits are not monolithic, they are uneven across a spectrum. That things are just a touch more complicated than "all corporations are rich".

Either they don't realize it, or they don't want to realize it.

Imagine that.

.

There you go again. Trying to saddle intelligent people with that brand of ignorance that you should reserve for those who consistently vote against their own best interests.

I know that all corporations are not rich. MINE IS NOT RICH. But the comments by 007 above are spot-fucking-on.

You have said that corporations will leave if we tax them more. I say that is bullshit...we used to tax them more....and they grew along with the power of the middle class. Check it out....true story.

Great. Let's tax 'em up the ass then.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

When you understand that a corporation can only EXIST because it is permitted to by the people....and can only prosper if the people support the infrastructure and commons that enable it to do so.......you will understand that corporations must surrender some of their financial decision making power. If the corporation does not benefit the community ( locality, region, national economy )....it should not be permitted to exist.

 

[healthmyths]

If corporations are Constitutionally the same as people, and the Supreme Court said they are, why shouldn't they pay income tax like we do? They used to and our economy boomed.

It wouldn't be that difficult to reverse the Reagan Revolution, which saw the majority of the tax burden shift from corporations to individuals...IF we first get rid of the corporate stoogies in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130415&_r=0

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

CAN people deduct their insurance premiums from their tax liabilities NO!

Companies in 2012 deducted the following Ranked in order of size:
$171 billion in 2012 was deducted from taxes for... health insurance for EMPLOYEES!!
GOOD! People aren't going to be provided health insurance any more after Obamacare .. you can buy your own .. BUT NO DEDUCTIONS!!!

$138 billion for employees pensions!
GOOD!!! People have social security why should companies be allowed to deduct these payments. Have the employees pay their own way!!

$87 billion employees mortgage interest deductions

$24 billion for child care credit

$33 billion charitable contributions

$27 billion deductions of health care items

$66 billion capital gains (Obama took $122,000 off his taxes from this!)

The Top 20 Tax Expenditures - Business Insider

 

[Mac1958]

When you understand that a corporation can only EXIST because it is permitted to by the people....and can only prosper if the people support the infrastructure and commons that enable it to do so.......you will understand that corporations must surrender some of their financial decision making power. If the corporation does not benefit the community ( locality, region, national economy )....it should not be permitted to exist.

Look it up: The purpose of a US corporation is to maximize shareholder value.

But, to hell with it. Let's just cut through the crap and allow politicians to run 'em.

I suspect you'll get your way in the long run.

.

 

[Oldguy]

It just seems to be fair to me. If corporations want the same rights as individuals (see: Citizens United ruling and the current Hobby Lobby case which is predicated on corporate religious rights), then they should be treated exactly like everybody else in the tax structure. Why should they get the benefits of personhood, but not the responsibilities?

 

[Skull Pilot]

When you understand that a corporation can only EXIST because it is permitted to by the people....and can only prosper if the people support the infrastructure and commons that enable it to do so.......you will understand that corporations must surrender some of their financial decision making power. If the corporation does not benefit the community ( locality, region, national economy )....it should not be permitted to exist.

Then you should surrender some of your power to the "commons" after all what you pay towards any infrastructure that you use is paltry.
BTW businesses pay far more towards infrastructure than any person does.

 

[healthmyths]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

They are paying less than ever. And half of this nation believes them when they say they are paying too much.....and buys the thret that they will leave the country if they are made to pay more. Even some SMART PEOPLE buy it.

Well I think you should call their bluff of moving more businesses off shore!
I am sure China won't be paying grass cutters $65/hour to keep up the maintenance on the facilities as the auto unions declare "grass cutters" are production workers and therefore
paid almost $65 per hour. But of course "smart people" like you know that right??

By the way just curious as a self-proclaimed "smart people" ... when you typed that comment, did the word "thret" have little red dots ..... underlining the word?
See I evidently have the advantage that you "smart people" don't have i.e. spell check as I type this so if I show my laziness and stupidity in little little details, like misspelling "thret".
And so when I see the "smart people" so lazy or stupid not able to even back up and correct misspellings.. I know them to be very uninformed and consequently don't believe much
of what they write!

 

[LoneLaugher]

When you understand that a corporation can only EXIST because it is permitted to by the people....and can only prosper if the people support the infrastructure and commons that enable it to do so.......you will understand that corporations must surrender some of their financial decision making power. If the corporation does not benefit the community ( locality, region, national economy )....it should not be permitted to exist.[/

Then you should surrender some of your power to the "commons" after all what you pay towards any infrastructure that you use is paltry.
BTW businesses pay far more towards infrastructure than any person does.

I do...and you do...surrender some power to the commons.

They use far more of it and benefit more from it. They should pay more towards it.

It is in the nations interest to have a large and prosperous and growing middle class. Corporations ought to be required to contribute to it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

When you understand that a corporation can only EXIST because it is permitted to by the people....and can only prosper if the people support the infrastructure and commons that enable it to do so.......you will understand that corporations must surrender some of their financial decision making power. If the corporation does not benefit the community ( locality, region, national economy )....it should not be permitted to exist.

Look it up: The purpose of a US corporation is to maximize shareholder value.

But, to hell with it. Let's just cut through the crap and allow politicians to run 'em.

I suspect you'll get your way in the long run.

.

Of course that is the purpose of a corporation.......as it pertains to the corporation. But the purpose of having corporations at all in the country is to promote the economic health of the country. Pooling resources and spreading out risk.....so that investment can be made and demand can be met.

If one follows your logic, corporations should be unregulated and the only concern that we as a people should have is that the corporation maximizes shareholder profit. Surely, that is not desirable.

A balance must be struck. Currently, the scales are tipped in favor of shareholder profit at detriment to the middle class.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

They are paying less than ever. And half of this nation believes them when they say they are paying too much.....and buys the thret that they will leave the country if they are made to pay more. Even some SMART PEOPLE buy it.

Well I think you should call their bluff of moving more businesses off shore!
I am sure China won't be paying grass cutters $65/hour to keep up the maintenance on the facilities as the auto unions declare "grass cutters" are production workers and therefore
paid almost $65 per hour. But of course "smart people" like you know that right??

By the way just curious as a self-proclaimed "smart people" ... when you typed that comment, did the word "thret" have little red dots ..... underlining the word?
See I evidently have the advantage that you "smart people" don't have i.e. spell check as I type this so if I show my laziness and stupidity in little little details, like misspelling "thret".
And so when I see the "smart people" so lazy or stupid not able to even back up and correct misspellings.. I know them to be very uninformed and consequently don't believe much
of what they write!

Nice catch. Thanks.

 

[healthmyths]

When you understand that a corporation can only EXIST because it is permitted to by the people....and can only prosper if the people support the infrastructure and commons that enable it to do so.......you will understand that corporations must surrender some of their financial decision making power. If the corporation does not benefit the community ( locality, region, national economy )....it should not be permitted to exist.

Look it up: The purpose of a US corporation is to maximize shareholder value.

But, to hell with it. Let's just cut through the crap and allow politicians to run 'em.

I suspect you'll get your way in the long run.

.

Of course that is the purpose of a corporation.......as it pertains to the corporation. But the purpose of having corporations at all in the country is to promote the economic health of the country. Pooling resources and spreading out risk.....so that investment can be made and demand can be met.

If one follows your logic, corporations should be unregulated and the only concern that we as a people should have is that the corporation maximizes shareholder profit. Surely, that is not desirable.

A balance must be struck. Currently, the scales are tipped in favor of shareholder profit at detriment to the middle class.

69% of U.S. households (or 82 million households) reported that they had employer-sponsored retirement plans, IRAs, or both in May 2011 (Figure 7.3).
Sixty-one percent of U.S. households reported that they had employer-sponsored retirement plans—that is, they had assets in DC plan accounts, were receiving or expecting to receive benefits from DB plans, or both.
39% of households reported having assets in IRAs.
31% of households had both IRAs and employer-sponsored retirement plans

2012 Investment Company Fact Book

So tell me if nearly 70% of households 82 million households with household defined by the Census as Persons per household, 2007-2011 2.60
USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

That is nearly 180 million people that have some type of 401k,IRA. This is not counting households that own stocks outright or mutual funds.

So would you mind telling me where these "profits" are going?
It appears like you want the destruction of what the MAJORITY (70%) of American households are depending on for their retirement!

Also, you may not be aware but these evil profit making businesses >>>>
Employment-related taxes are the largest share of taxes remitted (43.5 percent).
• On average, survey participants remitted $25,889 in employment-related taxes per U.S. employee, amounting to over one-third of employee compensation.
On average, survey participants needed a full-time team of 44 staff to comply with federal, state, and local tax payment obligations:
• U.S. tax compliance staffing is more than three times that in any other country surveyed.
• In addition to 30 federal taxes, companies are potentially liable for over 1,100 taxes imposed by the 50 states and the District of Columbia, as well as local taxes too
numerous to count due to the more than 89,000 local governmental entities in the United States.
• Although state and local taxes account for only 24.5 percent of U.S. taxes borne and collected, companies spend 41.7 percent of their compliance budget on these taxes.
Per dollar of tax remitted, compliance costs for state and local taxes are more than double that for federal taxes.



http://www.pwc.com/en_US/us/national-economic-statistics/assets/total_tax_contribution.pdf

 

[DiamondDave]

If corporations are Constitutionally the same as people, and the Supreme Court said they are, why shouldn't they pay income tax like we do? They used to and our economy boomed.

It wouldn't be that difficult to reverse the Reagan Revolution, which saw the majority of the tax burden shift from corporations to individuals...IF we first get rid of the corporate stoogies in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130415&_r=0

Because most of the 'people' are not paying federal income tax...

Now.. if you would have said tax all people and corporation equally in %... you may have had something

 

[Oldguy]

If corporations are Constitutionally the same as people, and the Supreme Court said they are, why shouldn't they pay income tax like we do? They used to and our economy boomed.

It wouldn't be that difficult to reverse the Reagan Revolution, which saw the majority of the tax burden shift from corporations to individuals...IF we first get rid of the corporate stoogies in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130415&_r=0

Because most of the 'people' are not paying federal income tax...

Now.. if you would have said tax all people and corporation equally in %... you may have had something

Yes, many people don't pay any income tax because we as a society have deemed it necessary to keep them from becoming indigent because of taxes. The same logic could easily be applied to corporations. If corporate income was below a certain level, no taxes. That would protect the small business owner and farmers from being taxed out of existence. Moreover, by progressively increasing the tax rate as income goes up, it would be fair to all.

 

[boedicca]

It just seems to be fair to me. If corporations want the same rights as individuals (see: Citizens United ruling and the current Hobby Lobby case which is predicated on corporate religious rights), then they should be treated exactly like everybody else in the tax structure. Why should they get the benefits of personhood, but not the responsibilities?

How about we first treat individuals the same and have a flat tax with no deductions...and quit treating married people like a fraction of a person?

You're also neglecting the fact that corporations pay the income taxes (as well as employers' share of payroll taxes) for all of their employees as it is a component of their gross pay.