Tax corporations like people

[Katzndogz]

The point this fiscal retard intends to make is:

The fiscal problem we face is not, then, a lack of revenue sources. We can finance any amount of transfer payments and “entitlements” by taxing corporations’ profits in the same way we tax personal income, using a progressive formula. If necessary, give them a mortgage deduction — they already get something like it in the form of accelerated depreciation allowances on their purchases of capital equipment — but make them pay higher taxes on their income. Do that, and the federal deficit goes away.

The sky is the limit! That's what Livingston says.

The deficit doesn't go away. If you taxed the rich at 100% the deficit wouldn't go away. The government won't stop spending, and now it's down to spending on nonsense.

 

[boedicca]

The Deficit won't go away if we raise taxes on corporations. Our corrupt government will just add any additional tax receipts to their spending binge.

 

[Mac1958]

.

I think we should just have the government own and run the corporations, which have too much money. Our professional politician leaders represent The Collective, and know what's best for us as a community.

Plus, The Collective pays for roads 'n stuff.

.

 

[Pogo]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

What are you talking about? It's already left the country!

Sure has. So you think increasing corporate taxes will bring it back?

.

"Increasing" huh?

The same way if your neighbor had tapped into your TV cable for free service, and the cable company found out and started charging him, they have "increased his bill".

Basically we charge them a fair share, or we bend over and grovel.
I'm sure they have their preference. We do too.

 

[boedicca]

Define "Fair Share". How much of one's income is a "fair share" to pay the government.

Please include all federal, state and local taxes: income, payroll, property, sales & use tax, excise taxes..including the embedded taxes in labor, goods, and services.

Thank you.

 

[BillyV]

If corporations are Constitutionally the same as people, and the Supreme Court said they are, why shouldn't they pay income tax like we do? They used to and our economy boomed.

It wouldn't be that difficult to reverse the Reagan Revolution, which saw the majority of the tax burden shift from corporations to individuals...IF we first get rid of the corporate stoogies in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130415&_r=0

Well, at least the author is an "expert" in these matters as a history professor at Rutgers.

The premise is somewhat absurd; corporations already pay the same rates as individuals (or at least they did until January 1st of this year when personal rates went to 39.6%). He bemoans the "regressive" nature of what he considers the modern replacement of corporate income tax, the payroll tax, without considering that corporate employers pay 50% of those payroll taxes. If you add the 9% of revenue provided through corporate income tax to the 20% (half of 40%) of corporate funded payroll taxes, you'll find that, in fact, the corporations are providing almost a third of federal revenues.

 

[Redfish]

the flaw with this idea is that most people do not understand corporate finance. Taxes paid by a corporation are a cost of doing business. They appear on the liability side of a balance sheet.

Taxes paid by corporations are included in the price of their products, so no matter how high you make the tax rate, those taxes will be paid by the consumers.

A much better idea is to do away with corporate income taxes completely. Prices would go down, more products would be sold, more jobs would be created, and more tax revenue to the government would be created.

But that would require that libtards do away with their idea that all corporations are evil and must be punished.

Liberalism is destroying this country. Not either party, liberal thought is the enemy. Until we grasp that basic truth, we are doomed.

 

[auditor0007]

.

It would be interesting to watch how fast the flood of business investment/capital and business creation would leave the country. Maybe then we could expand Obamacare to include all businesses to really sock it to 'em, and then double or triple business regulation for the knockout punch.

.

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

Sure, we can take away control of financial decision-making from a business, I suppose. I would have a few questions:

• How much cash would a corporation be "allowed" to keep for future needs and strategies?
  
  Just off the top of my head, I would not suggest a set number but a percentage of total revenue. A company that does $10 billion per year in sales should be able to hold onto more untaxed dollars than a company that does $10 million.
  
  
• How quickly does the company have to spend the money?
  
  That is a good question open for discussion. Obviously companies cannot be expected to reinvest those earnings in the same year as the posted the profits. I would suggest somewhere within a three year time frame and no longer than five years.
  
  
• What if the company doesn't see a legitimate need for capital expenditures at any given time?
  
  Then they can keep a certain percentage tax free, pay taxes on the rest and then keep the after tax revenue, or they can pay it out in dividends to shareholders. I would like to see them change the rules so that dividends are not taxed at the corporate level but are taxed as regular earned income to the individual, not as a capital gain.
  
  
• What if the company prefers to look long term rather than short term?
  
  What does that mean? Most companies looking to the long term would be interested in making capital investments into their business. One of the biggest problems with companies today is that their biggest concern is this quarter's profits, more so than the long term forecast for the company.
  
  
• What about the rights of shareholders? Do they have a say in this?
  
  Tax rules are set up so that everyone must follow them. Decisions as to how those rules apply and are set up is up to those we elect. If we don't like them, then we vote for someone else who will better represent us.
  
  
• Will the government bail out companies it forced to spend money if the companies are in trouble?

Companies thrive and die all the time. It is very rare that a company dies because it didn't save enough of its earnings for a rainy day. Most failures happen because the company became stagnant or whatever product or service it provided was no longer needed. Kodak is a good example of this. It's very rare to see a healthy company go under unless they borrow too much when trying to buy out another company. We have seen all too often how companies overleverage themselves and end up going belly up.

Off the top of my head.

.

You have to ask yourself how it is that so many companies are sitting on so much cash and yet very few of them are paying much in taxes. We are only collecting about one third the amount in taxes from corporations as we did before Reagan took office. Again, I don't have a problem with that if those businesses are thriving and employing lots of people, but when they are helping to stall the economy, then we need to take a second look at things. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I think this is something that we should take a serious look at.

 

[Redfish]

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

Sure, we can take away control of financial decision-making from a business, I suppose. I would have a few questions:

• How much cash would a corporation be "allowed" to keep for future needs and strategies?
• How quickly does the company have to spend the money?
  
  Just off the top of my head, I would not suggest a set number but a percentage of total revenue. A company that does $10 billion per year in sales should be able to hold onto more untaxed dollars than a company that does $10 million.
  
• What if the company doesn't see a legitimate need for capital expenditures at any given time?
  
  Then they can keep a certain percentage tax free, pay taxes on the rest and then keep the after tax revenue, or they can pay it out in dividends to shareholders. I would like to see them change the rules so that dividends are not taxed at the corporate level but are taxed as regular earned income to the individual, not as a capital gain.
  
• What if the company prefers to look long term rather than short term?
  
  What does that mean? Most companies looking to the long term would be interested in making capital investments into their business. One of the biggest problems with companies today is that their biggest concern is this quarter's profits, more so than the long term forecast for the company.
  
• What about the rights of shareholders? Do they have a say in this?
  
  Tax rules are set up so that everyone must follow them. Decisions as to how those rules apply and are set up is up to those we elect. If we don't like them, then we vote for someone else who will better represent us.
  
  
• Will the government bail out companies it forced to spend money if the companies are in trouble?

Companies thrive and die all the time. It is very rare that a company dies because it didn't save enough of its earnings for a rainy day. Most failures happen because the company became stagnant or whatever product or service it provided was no longer needed. Kodak is a good example of this. It's very rare to see a healthy company go under unless they borrow too much when trying to buy out another company. We have seen all too often how companies overleverage themselves and end up going belly up.

Off the top of my head.

.

You have to ask yourself how it is that so many companies are sitting on so much cash and yet very few of them are paying much in taxes. We are only collecting about one third the amount in taxes from corporations as we did before Reagan took office. Again, I don't have a problem with that if those businesses are thriving and employing lots of people, but when they are helping to stall the economy, then we need to take a second look at things. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I think this is something that we should take a serious look at.

businesses are sitting on cash because they don't know what obozo and his marxist friends are going to do to them next. Obamacare puts a huge financial burden on businesses and is a disincentive to hire more people or expand.

why do you think businesses are leaving this country?

 

[Pogo]

the flaw with this idea is that most people do not understand corporate finance. Taxes paid by a corporation are a cost of doing business. They appear on the liability side of a balance sheet.

Taxes paid by corporations are included in the price of their products, so no matter how high you make the tax rate, those taxes will be paid by the consumers.

A much better idea is to do away with corporate income taxes completely. Prices would go down, more products would be sold, more jobs would be created, and more tax revenue to the government would be created.

But that would require that libtards do away with their idea that all corporations are evil and must be punished.

Liberalism is destroying this country. Not either party, liberal thought is the enemy. Until we grasp that basic truth, we are doomed.

This is why I come here-- entertainment. Theater of the absurd.

You know what-- every time I get taxed I need more income too, so that cost gets passed along to employers. By this logic I shouldn't be taxed at all either.

Now I guess I have to insert some hair-on-fire line about "conservatards destroying this country" and their ideas that all workers are evil and must be punished.

 

[Redfish]

the flaw with this idea is that most people do not understand corporate finance. Taxes paid by a corporation are a cost of doing business. They appear on the liability side of a balance sheet.

Taxes paid by corporations are included in the price of their products, so no matter how high you make the tax rate, those taxes will be paid by the consumers.

A much better idea is to do away with corporate income taxes completely. Prices would go down, more products would be sold, more jobs would be created, and more tax revenue to the government would be created.

But that would require that libtards do away with their idea that all corporations are evil and must be punished.

Liberalism is destroying this country. Not either party, liberal thought is the enemy. Until we grasp that basic truth, we are doomed.

This is why I come here-- entertainment. Theater of the absurd.

You know what-- every time I get taxed I need more income too, so that cost gets passed along to employers. By this logic I shouldn't be taxed at all either.

Now I guess I have to insert some hair-on-fire line about "conservatards destroying this country" and their ideas that all workers are evil and must be punished.

workers are evil??? who has ever said or implied that? Conservatives pushed the union movement in the 1930s, conservatives made the civil rights act become law while liberal democrats like Robert Byrd fillibustered against it.

But back to corporations and taxes. you are correct, the more the govt takes from you, the more you need to make ends meet. The same applies to corporations, the only difference is that you cannot pass the taxes along to consumers. and its not just big corporations, ma and pa businesses are faced with the same issues every day.

 

[Pogo]

Define "Fair Share". How much of one's income is a "fair share" to pay the government.

Please include all federal, state and local taxes: income, payroll, property, sales & use tax, excise taxes..including the embedded taxes in labor, goods, and services.

Thank you.

Oh don't thank me, thank the OP. That's where the thread started.

 

[Oldguy]

Sure, we can take away control of financial decision-making from a business, I suppose. I would have a few questions:

• How much cash would a corporation be "allowed" to keep for future needs and strategies?
• How quickly does the company have to spend the money?
  
  Just off the top of my head, I would not suggest a set number but a percentage of total revenue. A company that does $10 billion per year in sales should be able to hold onto more untaxed dollars than a company that does $10 million.
  
• What if the company doesn't see a legitimate need for capital expenditures at any given time?
  
  Then they can keep a certain percentage tax free, pay taxes on the rest and then keep the after tax revenue, or they can pay it out in dividends to shareholders. I would like to see them change the rules so that dividends are not taxed at the corporate level but are taxed as regular earned income to the individual, not as a capital gain.
  
• What if the company prefers to look long term rather than short term?
  
  What does that mean? Most companies looking to the long term would be interested in making capital investments into their business. One of the biggest problems with companies today is that their biggest concern is this quarter's profits, more so than the long term forecast for the company.
  
• What about the rights of shareholders? Do they have a say in this?
  
  Tax rules are set up so that everyone must follow them. Decisions as to how those rules apply and are set up is up to those we elect. If we don't like them, then we vote for someone else who will better represent us.
  
  
• Will the government bail out companies it forced to spend money if the companies are in trouble?

Companies thrive and die all the time. It is very rare that a company dies because it didn't save enough of its earnings for a rainy day. Most failures happen because the company became stagnant or whatever product or service it provided was no longer needed. Kodak is a good example of this. It's very rare to see a healthy company go under unless they borrow too much when trying to buy out another company. We have seen all too often how companies overleverage themselves and end up going belly up.

Off the top of my head.

.

You have to ask yourself how it is that so many companies are sitting on so much cash and yet very few of them are paying much in taxes. We are only collecting about one third the amount in taxes from corporations as we did before Reagan took office. Again, I don't have a problem with that if those businesses are thriving and employing lots of people, but when they are helping to stall the economy, then we need to take a second look at things. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I think this is something that we should take a serious look at.

businesses are sitting on cash because they don't know what obozo and his marxist friends are going to do to them next. Obamacare puts a huge financial burden on businesses and is a disincentive to hire more people or expand.

why do you think businesses are leaving this country?

Businesses and jobs were leaving this country long before Obama was elected. What was causing that?

 

[Redfish]

You have to ask yourself how it is that so many companies are sitting on so much cash and yet very few of them are paying much in taxes. We are only collecting about one third the amount in taxes from corporations as we did before Reagan took office. Again, I don't have a problem with that if those businesses are thriving and employing lots of people, but when they are helping to stall the economy, then we need to take a second look at things. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I think this is something that we should take a serious look at.

businesses are sitting on cash because they don't know what obozo and his marxist friends are going to do to them next. Obamacare puts a huge financial burden on businesses and is a disincentive to hire more people or expand.

why do you think businesses are leaving this country?

Businesses and jobs were leaving this country long before Obama was elected. What was causing that?

taxes and unions. didn't you know that already?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Corporations are one "persons" under International Uniform Commercial Code, which exist under Maritime/Admiralty Jurisdiction.

You can google UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) and look up the definitions in Article I or "person."

------------------------------------

You're talking about parallel systems of law and you don't' even know it. The Constitution does not apply to maritime (overseas/foreign) corporations.

 

[Redfish]

defining a corporation as a legal "person" was done to protect employees and shareholders from the acts of the corporation. With the exception of some corporate officers (see Sarbanes Oxley) employees and shareholders are not liable for illegal acts of the corporation.

thats the reason, not what some left wing idiots claim.

 

[Michelle420]

If corporations are Constitutionally the same as people, and the Supreme Court said they are, why shouldn't they pay income tax like we do? They used to and our economy boomed.

It wouldn't be that difficult to reverse the Reagan Revolution, which saw the majority of the tax burden shift from corporations to individuals...IF we first get rid of the corporate stoogies in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130415&_r=0

Agreed they should be taxed like people and have the same consequences in court as people, especially in matters of negligence and things that have caused death of humans.

Otherwise they should no longer carry the status as a "people"

 

[Truthseeker420]

Yes the government taking 52% of business profits will fix everything.

26 Major Corporations Paid No Corporate Income Tax For The Last Four Years, Despite Making Billions In Profits

26 Major Corporations Paid No Taxes For The Last Four Years

 

[Billo_Really]

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

Corporations don't re-invest until demand goes up. Then they put money back into the system. 70% of the economy is consumer spending. We need to get money back into the middle class by getting them jobs.

If we close the tax loopholes that allow corporations to off-shore their profits, then provide subsidies to the ones who are based in the US, manufacture in the US and hire US workers, then we will increase the amount of jobs in the country. In addition to that, the government needs to start issuing infrastructure construction projects. No industry puts more people to work quicker than the construction industry. That's why when housing starts go up, un-employment goes down.

We also need to increase the tax on capital gains and dividends to 25%, instead of this bullshit 15% they're paying now.

 

[BillyV]

I have an idea. We know that American business is sitting on close to $3 trillion in cash that they refuse to put into play. Maybe we should go back to structuring corporate taxes in a way that requires business to reinvest in itself in order to avoid paying taxes, and make the requirement that to avoid paying those taxes, the money must be reinvested back into the US economy if the profits were earned in the US. I have no problem with corporations not paying any taxes if they are reinvesting their American earned profits back into the US economy. Unfortunately, the way tax laws are now set up, they can avoid paying the taxes and they don't have to do anything other than sit on the money. All we ever hear is how our corporate tax rates are killing American business, but this is a bunch of crap because these companies are paying less than they ever have.

Corporations don't re-invest until demand goes up. Then they put money back into the system. 70% of the economy is consumer spending. We need to get money back into the middle class by getting them jobs.

If we close the tax loopholes that allow corporations to off-shore their profits, then provide subsidies to the ones who are based in the US, manufacture in the US and hire US workers, then we will increase the amount of jobs in the country. In addition to that, the government needs to start issuing infrastructure construction projects. No industry puts more people to work quicker than the construction industry. That's why when housing starts go up, un-employment goes down.

We also need to increase the tax on capital gains and dividends to 25%, instead of this bullshit 15% they're paying now.

That's a great idea! Then in two years or so we can all complain that those same corporations to whom we are providing tax breaks for hiring and manufacturing in the US aren't paying their fair share in taxes!