Taxation is Theft

[Sallow]

Wow, what a point. Leave it to liberals to address in a country of over 300 million the few thousand who are anarchists as if you've made a relevant point. Good job, Paint. You nailed them.

We have a way of "addressing" issues. It's called voting. It's called a representative government.

When you folks talk about deconstructing that? Then it's you folks that are talking about "anarchy".

Government isn't "good" or "evil".

It's a construct, essentially, of the people.

And if you aren't involved?

You have no right to bitch.

Right, our choices are authoritarian leftism or anarchy. You cannot conceive of anything in the middle. We support leftist authoritarianism or we are anarchists. You get 50% plus one and you have the right to take our liberty and property and we just need to shut the fuck up.

You know, like when States voted for man/woman marriage, you accepted that because the majority spoke and shut up.

You're a liar and an idiot. You're a liar because you only accept the maroity when it says what you want. And you're an idiot because majority voting being sufficient in itself to take people's liberty and property is wrong. Hey, the majority voted for the Nazis, so you gotta accept what the Nazis did and shut the fuck up.

Seriously.

Pick up the Constitution. Read it.

It's not conservative. It's not libertarian.

It's Liberal. It's a Liberal form of government, funded by the people, and representative of the people.

There's a whole lot in it about Taxation and Federal Power.

You might be shocked.

 

[GreenBean]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:



Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

lygyslytyrs, Pyyple, wyrld.., where the hell did you libertards learn spelling ? this is the second tyme ]SIC] tonight i have read a post wyth [SIC] distracting piss poor spelling and there is nothing more distracting than to read a post with shitty spelling, it jiust destroys the intent of the message.

Thys is the nyw spyllyng. The letter Y is a symbol of fymynyst pryde, and representative of our collectyve outrage at manpigs wyrld wyde. We call oursylves "womyn" rather than "women" or "woman" to byttyr distinguish oursylves from the disgusting male gyndyr; the ideas that womyn must come from manpigs like your made-up Biblical Eve, or that we must be irrevocably tied to manpigs due to syxyst interpretations of biology, are inherently misogynistic and wrong. To prove our commytmynt to womyn's lybyrytyyn, fymynysts are now slowly ryddyng oursylves of all syxyst vowels--that is, all vowels other than Y.

Leave it to a manpig to not understand womyn's issues.

Now you got Sexist Vowels -

Hows My Spelling ? C U Next Tuesday

 

[Sallow]

Theft is a crime, it is the unlawful taking of something of value;

Thou shall not steal. It's a moral and ethical issue more than a legal one. Man can script all kinds of powers for himself via government. Totally legal. But legality has nothing to do with it.

Taxation is not theft.

And "Thou shall not steal" is a religious "moral".

You'd like to base a government on religion? Feel free.

Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Theft is a crime, it is the unlawful taking of something of value;

Thou shall not steal. It's a moral and ethical issue more than a legal one. Man can script all kinds of powers for himself via government. Totally legal. But legality has nothing to do with it.

Taxation is not theft.

And "Thou shall not steal" is a religious "moral".

You'd like to base a government on religion? Feel free.

Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

You're not intelligent enough for this conversation. I already indicated this is a MORAL/Ethical argument, not a legal one. No one is arguing with the States self prescribed ability to legally do the stealing. But you're not really smart enough to walk and chew gum simultaneously.

 

[Sallow]

Yes, ALL forms of government are built on violence and theft. I could not form a government that is based on voluntary measures as that goes against the very nature of the State. Theft and violence are the monopolistic tools of the government (human farming) trade.

So why are bitching, exactly?

The thing about Libertarians is that they have never formed a government, and basically want to change already established governments into something they like based on their completely ridiculous and unworkable notions about how things "Should be".

Taxes are compulsory because that's the only way to get them.

Period.

 

[Sallow]

Thou shall not steal. It's a moral and ethical issue more than a legal one. Man can script all kinds of powers for himself via government. Totally legal. But legality has nothing to do with it.

Taxation is not theft.

And "Thou shall not steal" is a religious "moral".

You'd like to base a government on religion? Feel free.

Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

You're not intelligent enough for this conversation. I already indicated this is a MORAL/Ethical argument, not a legal one. No one is arguing with the States self prescribed ability to legally do the stealing. But you're not really smart enough to walk and chew gum simultaneously.

And yet here you are trying to legitimize a totally unworkable and idiotic method of governance.

Never been tried before.
Never could be tried.
Never would work.

But I'm not intelligent.

Yes..Morally and Ethically we should have the "right" to exist under water without a breathing apparatus.

Go try it for 10 minutes.

I mean you are the real mind here..right?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You have massive comprehension problems. Try legos or perhaps play-do.

 

[bripat9643]

So if taxation is theft, then the government is stealing money from the people in order to fund the agencies and institutions that are there to protect us from real theft,

such as law enforcement, the courts, the penal system.

Since almost no one objects to having the above, then all you are doing when you call taxation 'theft' is conceding that sometimes 'theft' is the right thing to do.

Really if that's all taxes were spent on I don't think there would be an issue.

Taxes are spent on more than that because the People want taxes spent on more than that;

if you can come with a way to democratically take the People out of the equation then you can have your tax preferences, and still call it democratic. lol

People are lynched because the people want them to be lynched. That's the level of "logic" in your post. Majority rule doesn't justify anything. An immoral act doesn't suddenly become moral because a majority votes to do it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really if that's all taxes were spent on I don't think there would be an issue.

Taxes are spent on more than that because the People want taxes spent on more than that;

if you can come with a way to democratically take the People out of the equation then you can have your tax preferences, and still call it democratic. lol

People are lynched because the people want them to be lynched. That's the level of "logic" in your post. Majority rule doesn't justify anything. An immoral act doesn't suddenly become moral because a majority votes to do it.

An immoral act is also not a crime unless there is a criminal justice system. If nothing is illegal, then nothing is impermissible. In that system, i.e. anarchic chaos, the pedophile is as law biding as anyone else.

Why would you want that kind of a world?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really if that's all taxes were spent on I don't think there would be an issue.

Taxes are spent on more than that because the People want taxes spent on more than that;

if you can come with a way to democratically take the People out of the equation then you can have your tax preferences, and still call it democratic. lol

People are lynched because the people want them to be lynched. That's the level of "logic" in your post. Majority rule doesn't justify anything. An immoral act doesn't suddenly become moral because a majority votes to do it.

No, lynching is against the law because the People made it against the law. You are irreparably confused.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Taxes are spent on more than that because the People want taxes spent on more than that;

if you can come with a way to democratically take the People out of the equation then you can have your tax preferences, and still call it democratic. lol

People are lynched because the people want them to be lynched. That's the level of "logic" in your post. Majority rule doesn't justify anything. An immoral act doesn't suddenly become moral because a majority votes to do it.

An immoral act is also not a crime unless there is a criminal justice system. If nothing is illegal, then nothing is impermissible. In that system, i.e. anarchic chaos, the pedophile is as law biding as anyone else.

Why would you want that kind of a world?

This is the dumbest shit muttered today so far. Congrats.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Thou shall not steal. It's a moral and ethical issue more than a legal one. Man can script all kinds of powers for himself via government. Totally legal. But legality has nothing to do with it.

Taxation is not theft.

And "Thou shall not steal" is a religious "moral".

You'd like to base a government on religion? Feel free.

Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

You're not intelligent enough for this conversation. I already indicated this is a MORAL/Ethical argument, not a legal one. No one is arguing with the States self prescribed ability to legally do the stealing. But you're not really smart enough to walk and chew gum simultaneously.

If you allow everyone to be his own government you will have chaos. At that moment, people will recognize the horror of chaos,

and will begin, in the nature of Man, to re-form governments.

Humans are social by nature, they are biologically programmed to existing in social groups or units, or whatever you wish to call them.

Because these social groups by their nature have systems of government, government is a natural human condition.

Because functional governments cannot exist without some degree of involuntary obligations or prohibitions,

the natural human condition of existing in social groups that include a system of government also means that force is necessary and natural.

 

[NYcarbineer]

People are lynched because the people want them to be lynched. That's the level of "logic" in your post. Majority rule doesn't justify anything. An immoral act doesn't suddenly become moral because a majority votes to do it.

An immoral act is also not a crime unless there is a criminal justice system. If nothing is illegal, then nothing is impermissible. In that system, i.e. anarchic chaos, the pedophile is as law biding as anyone else.

Why would you want that kind of a world?

This is the dumbest shit muttered today so far. Congrats.

And yet you can't dispute it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The only reason conservatives call taxation 'theft' is that conservatives by their odd 'nature' are programmed to frame all issues in the most hysterically exaggerated terms they can think of.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

That's very good. Spoken like a true neanderthal. And yet, it does nothing to prove taxation is not theft. Well done!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

An immoral act is also not a crime unless there is a criminal justice system. If nothing is illegal, then nothing is impermissible. In that system, i.e. anarchic chaos, the pedophile is as law biding as anyone else.

Why would you want that kind of a world?

This is the dumbest shit muttered today so far. Congrats.

And yet you can't dispute it.

I'm not in the business of disputing illogical nonsense. I do laugh at it though.

 

[ChrisL]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

I don't agree. First off, we don't get to choose the nominees. They are chosen for us, piss poor selection at that, so you either vote for the BEST candidate or you don't vote at all.

Also, politicians lie to the people. They make ALL kinds of campaign promises and then they don't stick to them. And the people are stupid and uneducated when it comes to politics, so they vote for whoever promises them the most stuff, basically.

Our taxes are misspent, wasted, and abused. Turtle crossings?

HOW are the our elected officials held accountable? Please. Once they are in office, it seems as though they are no longer accountable to anyone for anything. Charlie Rangel anyone? Remember he was "censured." Oooooo. *rolls eyes*

 

[MaxGrit]

We have a way of "addressing" issues. It's called voting. It's called a representative government.

When you folks talk about deconstructing that? Then it's you folks that are talking about "anarchy".

Government isn't "good" or "evil".

It's a construct, essentially, of the people.

And if you aren't involved?

You have no right to bitch.

Right, our choices are authoritarian leftism or anarchy. You cannot conceive of anything in the middle. We support leftist authoritarianism or we are anarchists. You get 50% plus one and you have the right to take our liberty and property and we just need to shut the fuck up.

You know, like when States voted for man/woman marriage, you accepted that because the majority spoke and shut up.

You're a liar and an idiot. You're a liar because you only accept the maroity when it says what you want. And you're an idiot because majority voting being sufficient in itself to take people's liberty and property is wrong. Hey, the majority voted for the Nazis, so you gotta accept what the Nazis did and shut the fuck up.

Seriously.

Pick up the Constitution. Read it.

It's not conservative. It's not libertarian.

It's Liberal. It's a Liberal form of government, funded by the people, and representative of the people.

American Liberal Founders are similar to today's Conservatives.

Today's Liberals are similar to Marxist Progressives.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

I am totally on board with the whole "this shit sucks" thing. It really does suck. Okay. We get it. So WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?

What sucks? It looks like you're saying that paying taxes sucks, but I want to make sure you're outing yourself as a libertardian corporate shill before I formally accuse you of it.

Taxes are the collective contributions of all members of society for the maintainence and protection of that society and it's members - however in degenerating socialist societies the collective contributions are not neccessarily used for the preservation or maintainence of the society or for the protection of its members, but rather for the advancement of the ruling classes and continued subjugation of the productive working class.

This is most certainly the case in Modern Day America as Socialists , who are really little more than "useful idiots" continue to advance the causes of the ruling class elite.

We are more on our way to becoming a Plutocracy than a socialist republic. A Plutocracy can become something more than rule by the rich, it can and may provide health care for the masses and proivde 'welfare'; issues which you and others considered socialistic. But if one considers Saudia Arabia as an example, one can see their Plutocracy suppresses freedom and provides some resources to its poor, but hides them very well from the world.

IMO the 'welfare' provide to the poor Saudi is nothing more than an effort to keep the poor in their place, and to prevent them marching with torches and pitch forks in mass - similar to enlightened conservatives in our country; apparently the hoi polloi conservative - the '"useful idiots"' - arem't smart enough to protect their own backs.

 

[kaz]

We have a way of "addressing" issues. It's called voting. It's called a representative government.

When you folks talk about deconstructing that? Then it's you folks that are talking about "anarchy".

Government isn't "good" or "evil".

It's a construct, essentially, of the people.

And if you aren't involved?

You have no right to bitch.

Right, our choices are authoritarian leftism or anarchy. You cannot conceive of anything in the middle. We support leftist authoritarianism or we are anarchists. You get 50% plus one and you have the right to take our liberty and property and we just need to shut the fuck up.

You know, like when States voted for man/woman marriage, you accepted that because the majority spoke and shut up.

You're a liar and an idiot. You're a liar because you only accept the maroity when it says what you want. And you're an idiot because majority voting being sufficient in itself to take people's liberty and property is wrong. Hey, the majority voted for the Nazis, so you gotta accept what the Nazis did and shut the fuck up.

Seriously.

Pick up the Constitution. Read it.

It's not conservative. It's not libertarian.

It's Liberal. It's a Liberal form of government, funded by the people, and representative of the people.

There's a whole lot in it about Taxation and Federal Power.

You might be shocked.

Yes, the constitution is classic liberal. You are an authoritarian leftist. There is no relation between you and liberalism, you just like the word because it implies what you are not. In fact they are opposites. The Constitution protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority. You revel in the tyranny of the majority. That is unless they are wrong, then you run to the courts to decree your way.

The reason you like voting is the same as Stalin and Hussein. It gives false validation.