Taxation is Theft

[Missouri_Mike]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

This post and the article you link to are accurate and good. I wish I could thank you for them, but due to the "No Thanking of Thanks-Misers" of the USMB Bureau of Thanks Subsidies, I am unable to. I shall rep you for it instead. I especially liked this selection of your link:

So instead of seeing paying taxes as analogous to being mugged by the government, we ought to think of these payments more like the tithing that many people do in their churches and synagogues. Most people see these regular donations as a charitable contribution to the good works being done by these religious organizations – and they certainly don’t resent these contributions. But if the government is also an institution dedicated in large part to doing good works – to promoting the public interest – then we should not resent our taxes contributing to those governmental activities. In fact, we should feel good about all the good our tax dollars are doing – just as we feel good about all the good our religious donations do.

The sooner right-wing nutjobs realize that government is a sound replacement for their backwards, archaic religions, the better.

You're an idiot. I have control over what church donations I want to give and if I ever skip a donation they have no power to come after my home and income with penalties. If the government is as generous of an organization as a church why is there force required to participate? Why do the members of government and their programs not survive only on donations like pastor's?

Government is the exact opposite of religion. If my church asks me to donate to a girls camp I can choose to support that. If they want money for abortions I can choose not to donate to that.

BTW- My church can do amazing things simply asking for a 10% voluntary donation. They feed and clothe people, provide homes and training for better lives. They provide jobs to some. They keep a very nice building in good repair for us to use. All on a voluntary basis, for a non-mandatory donation they can't collect by force. Every dollar I donate is effective and goes to a purpose that actually helps people. And we also seem to have plenty of money to cover our projects.

Government on the other hand demands 30% at gun point and under threat of prosecution and can't seem to do anywhere as much good for the money or even be semi-competent with how they administer those dollars. Everything they do is a failure of the original goal and they never seem to have enough money.

Thanks though for admitting you worship at the feet of government as your religion. What you are bowing down to as your god is pretty pathetic. The real God can take only 10% and make everyone's lives better. Your false god needs much more and only makes people more miserable.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Taxes are not theft, pure and simple, in a republican constitutional system where we elect leges to govern.

Where is this their of morals written? Majority rule doesn't convert theft into something benign.

To say "taxes are not theft" is an invitation to criminality and should be promoted as inviting conspiracy to defraud.

I think you mislocuted there, Fakey.

Because you hate constitutional government of We the People does not mean that taxation is ipso facto wrong. And, yeah, in our government, majority rule does rule. Tough that, huh.

 

[bripat9643]

Taxes are not theft, pure and simple, in a republican constitutional system where we elect leges to govern.

Where is this their of morals written? Majority rule doesn't convert theft into something benign.

To say "taxes are not theft" is an invitation to criminality and should be promoted as inviting conspiracy to defraud.

I think you mislocuted there, Fakey.

Because you hate constitutional government of We the People does not mean that taxation is ipso facto wrong. And, yeah, in our government, majority rule does rule. Tough that, huh.

Taxation is wrong because taxation is theft, not because I hate the Constitution.

A lynch mob is majority rule in its purest form. That's the kind of rule you endorse. Tough for all those Negroes who got lynched, eh Fakey?

 

[Wildman]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

lygyslytyrs, Pyyple, wyrld.., where the hell did you libertards learn spelling ? this is the second tyme ]SIC] tonight i have read a post wyth [SIC] distracting piss poor spelling and there is nothing more distracting than to read a post with shitty spelling, it jiust destroys the intent of the message.

 

[ScienceRocks]

GOD BLESS OUR SCIENCE INSTITUTIONS AND SAFETY NET. Fuck losertrianism in the ass!

 

[Listening]

Raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility ages. We are living longer than our ancestors, we should be living longer.

Less than 6 percent of the US population was over 65 at the time the eligibility age was set to 65. Today, over 13 percent is over 65. That means a more than doubling of the entitlement load, with a smaller percentage paying in.

In addition, Medicare was piled on top of that load in 1965. At that time, 9 percent of the US population was over the age of 65.


Therefore, we need to index the retirement age to somewhere between 6 and 9 percent of the population.

Good call.

As to "too much government".....let's look at the deficits.

If we have "enough" government, why are we not willing to pay for it ?

Those wonderful smart people in D.C. should have no problem raising our taxes without fear of getting kicked out of office if we have "enough government".

The crime is that we don't make people feel the pain so they pay attention.

They may want it in the end, but right now it seems that those in D.C. don't think so.

 

[Listening]

Where is this their of morals written? Majority rule doesn't convert theft into something benign.



I think you mislocuted there, Fakey.

Because you hate constitutional government of We the People does not mean that taxation is ipso facto wrong. And, yeah, in our government, majority rule does rule. Tough that, huh.

Taxation is wrong because taxation is theft, not because I hate the Constitution.

A lynch mob is majority rule in its purest form. That's the kind of rule you endorse. Tough for all those Negroes who got lynched, eh Fakey?

Ignore Jake.

He's got his head so far up his ass that when his ears wiggle he gets indigestion.

 

[ScienceRocks]

WE NEED SCIENCE
WE need Education
We need infrastructure
We need minimum wage
We need investment into r&d
We need safetynet

All great nations like India, China and all of europe follow this winning plan! Say no to libertrianism!

 

[Bush92]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

Taxes are theft when they go to welfare for lame and lazy. Stealing from the hard working folks to give to the lazy is wrong. Mellon was correct on Supply Side formula.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility ages. We are living longer than our ancestors, we should be living longer.

Less than 6 percent of the US population was over 65 at the time the eligibility age was set to 65. Today, over 13 percent is over 65. That means a more than doubling of the entitlement load, with a smaller percentage paying in.

In addition, Medicare was piled on top of that load in 1965. At that time, 9 percent of the US population was over the age of 65.


Therefore, we need to index the retirement age to somewhere between 6 and 9 percent of the population.

Good call.

As to "too much government".....let's look at the deficits.

If we have "enough" government, why are we not willing to pay for it ?

Those wonderful smart people in D.C. should have no problem raising our taxes without fear of getting kicked out of office if we have "enough government".

The crime is that we don't make people feel the pain so they pay attention.

They may want it in the end, but right now it seems that those in D.C. don't think so.

The rich are paying 10-15% taxes and should be taxed. Your wars cost more then all of our science institutions have cost us the past 30 years combined. You have nerve, dude, real nerve. So you're fighting to destroy our own country and weaken it within the world. Shame on you!

 

[LiberalMedia]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

lygyslytyrs, Pyyple, wyrld.., where the hell did you libertards learn spelling ? this is the second tyme ]SIC] tonight i have read a post wyth [SIC] distracting piss poor spelling and there is nothing more distracting than to read a post with shitty spelling, it jiust destroys the intent of the message.

Thys is the nyw spyllyng. The letter Y is a symbol of fymynyst pryde, and representative of our collectyve outrage at manpigs wyrld wyde. We call oursylves "womyn" rather than "women" or "woman" to byttyr distinguish oursylves from the disgusting male gyndyr; the ideas that womyn must come from manpigs like your made-up Biblical Eve, or that we must be irrevocably tied to manpigs due to syxyst interpretations of biology, are inherently misogynistic and wrong. To prove our commytmynt to womyn's lybyrytyyn, fymynysts are now slowly ryddyng oursylves of all syxyst vowels--that is, all vowels other than Y.

Leave it to a manpig to not understand womyn's issues.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

Government doesn't make anything.

 

[LiberalMedia]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

This post and the article you link to are accurate and good. I wish I could thank you for them, but due to the "No Thanking of Thanks-Misers" of the USMB Bureau of Thanks Subsidies, I am unable to. I shall rep you for it instead. I especially liked this selection of your link:

So instead of seeing paying taxes as analogous to being mugged by the government, we ought to think of these payments more like the tithing that many people do in their churches and synagogues. Most people see these regular donations as a charitable contribution to the good works being done by these religious organizations – and they certainly don’t resent these contributions. But if the government is also an institution dedicated in large part to doing good works – to promoting the public interest – then we should not resent our taxes contributing to those governmental activities. In fact, we should feel good about all the good our tax dollars are doing – just as we feel good about all the good our religious donations do.

The sooner right-wing nutjobs realize that government is a sound replacement for their backwards, archaic religions, the better.

Government on the other hand demands 30% at gun point

I keep asking you lying, right-wing fascists to prove that this is true, and no one has been able to deliver.

Show me one example of state sales tax, federal or state income tax, or local property taxes being collected "at gun point". Protip, you can't, because it doesn't happen. But I'll give you the chance to fail, and perhaps you will do a little growing up, and be able to admit that you lied about the government's methods of tax collection.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Taxes in many cases theft to a degree.

For example property taxes.

If the state were to say that every acre of land and every square foot of housing are to be taxed at a flat rate that would be fair. But the state arbitrarily decides what to charge via some easily manipulated market price calculation.

Why should a person who takes the time to build a home at his own expense pay more in taxes per square foot for that home than some shlub who lives in a tar paper shack?

Why is 30% of some of the dollars I earn taken from me when others pay nothing on the dollars they earn?

When taxes are unevenly and arbitrarily applied the yes it can be called theft.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Well, there are anarchists who oppose all taxes. However, your question really is missing most of us who want limited government.

"Taxation" is not theft. However, taxation for wealth redistribution is. It's a crime when money is taken from one person by force and given to another. That it was voted on to do it doesn't change that it is armed robbery.

However, taxes that are used for the general good are legitimate. General good means roads, police, etc that benefit all. It's when it's used to redistribute money that it is immoral. Charity can only be done by choice and redistributing money by force is not the "general" good.

So taxes for public education, Medicaid, Medicare, for example are all armed robbery, even though the elected representatives of the People voted for them.

Once you declare that democratic government is a crime, what's left? What's the alternative?

kaz would have an autocratic government, presumably, that would operate exactly to the wishes of kaz. Kazocracy is apparently the only form of lawful government,

according to kaz.

Where in the hell do these people come from?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because you hate constitutional government of We the People does not mean that taxation is ipso facto wrong. And, yeah, in our government, majority rule does rule. Tough that, huh.

Taxation is wrong because taxation is theft, not because I hate the Constitution.

A lynch mob is majority rule in its purest form. That's the kind of rule you endorse. Tough for all those Negroes who got lynched, eh Fakey?

Ignore Jake. He's got his head so far up his ass that when his ears wiggle he gets indigestion.

The equation of the Constitution with a lynch mob in this context of taxation is nonsensical. L just has nothing to offer.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So if taxation is theft, then the government is stealing money from the people in order to fund the agencies and institutions that are there to protect us from real theft,

such as law enforcement, the courts, the penal system.

Since almost no one objects to having the above, then all you are doing when you call taxation 'theft' is conceding that sometimes 'theft' is the right thing to do.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So if taxation is theft, then the government is stealing money from the people in order to fund the agencies and institutions that are there to protect us from real theft,

such as law enforcement, the courts, the penal system.

Since almost no one objects to having the above, then all you are doing when you call taxation 'theft' is conceding that sometimes 'theft' is the right thing to do.

Really if that's all taxes were spent on I don't think there would be an issue.

 

[kaz]

Taxes in many cases theft to a degree.

For example property taxes.

If the state were to say that every acre of land and every square foot of housing are to be taxed at a flat rate that would be fair. But the state arbitrarily decides what to charge via some easily manipulated market price calculation.

Good point, but the problem with property taxes is far deeper than that. It makes government the true owner of your home, cars, boats and anything else they force you to pay rent for. You stop paying your rent, they take it.

Property taxes are evil for that reason. You own nothing but the clothes on your back, everything else is owned by government and rented to you. You earn the money, buy the property, then rent it from government until you sell it or die.

 

[kaz]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

Wow, what a point. Leave it to liberals to address in a country of over 300 million the few thousand who are anarchists as if you've made a relevant point. Good job, Paint. You nailed them.