Taxation is Theft

[g5000]

Ban all tax expenditures. I have talked about this so often I bet a few people are groaning right now hearing me say it again.

Every dollar paid out in tax expenditures is a dollar that has to come from someone else's pocket or has to be borrowed. We are spending $1.2 trillion a year on tax expenditures. We have a $17 trillion debt. Coincidence? Nope.

Banning tax expenditures means we will no longer have the insane situation where people earning identical incomes are paying wildly variant amounts of taxes. Banning tax expenditures means we can lower tax rates for everyone.

Banning tax expenditures also means instant campaign finance reform. If a Congressman cannot put a carve-out in the tax code for campaign donors, there is no incentive for those donors to give him campaign cash. The attempts at campaign finance reform of the past half century have had ZERO impact on the re-election rate of incumbents. Banning tax expenditures would deplete campaign war chests.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Bullshit, prove it.

When you say "Bullshit", you are saying you are just fine with the amount and power of government as it stands right now.

Sure am.



Nope. While I am happy with the current state of affairs in President Obama's America--except for the racists that constantly obstruct our benevolent leader's plans for progress--I do not dismiss any evidence. If your evidence is really evidence, meaning that it stands up to scrutiny and investigation, then I will accept it. If it is hyper-partisan nonsense composed of shallow arguments supported by conjecture rather than actual thought or facts, then of course I will reject it. It's up to you to not completely blow your chance to do the ryght thing and make a rational case for your stated position. I realize that's asking a lot of a corporate shill, but President Obama has inspyred me to remain hopeful even in the face of the abject intellectual poverty right-wingers here display daily.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

Only someone immensely butthurt at getting outed as a bag of hot air would turn tail and run so quickly--and before posting even one of his amazing alternatives to taxation that he promised us.

I will now hit "Submit Reply", and as my post makes its way through an NSA monitoring program, I will ponder what kind of special retard could possibly be comfortable with that.

Prove that this happens as you described it.

You go systyr.. blast the lazy scum that is the manpig.

 

[g5000]

Way, way too much government power: Room 641A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[g5000]

LGS just got into bed with an admitted marxist!

Awesome.

 

[g5000]

Raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility ages. We are living longer than our ancestors, we should be living longer.

Less than 6 percent of the US population was over 65 at the time the eligibility age was set to 65. Today, over 13 percent is over 65. That means a more than doubling of the entitlement load, with a smaller percentage paying in.

In addition, Medicare was piled on top of that load in 1965. At that time, 9 percent of the US population was over the age of 65.


Therefore, we need to index the retirement age to somewhere between 6 and 9 percent of the population.

 

[g5000]

Ban credit default swaps which do not have an insurable interest.

Require derivatives to be sold on public exchanges so there can be open price discovery.

Jail Wall Street fraudsters. No more fines. Prison.

 

[g5000]

Buy and sell health insurance the same way you buy and sell home, auto, and life insurance. This would provide customers with bargaining power they currently do not have, as well as bundling and long term customer discounts. No interruption or loss of insurance when you change jobs.

Get rid of the employer-sponsored health insurance boondoggle which has been bending up the cost curve of health care.

We have a government in the health care marketplace which is writing the rules for its private sector competition. Gee, you think they aren't tying their competitors' hands? If you do, you are a retard.

 

[JakeStarkey]

g5000 wants to see the systers be perverted.

Knew it.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

LGS just got into bed with an admitted marxist!

Awesome.

Joke's on you Gomer5000- we've been friends since day one.. I don't judge my friends by their ideology .. A good majority of my friends on this site are liberals.. having said as much, you wouldn't recognize the TRUTH if it jumped up and snaked your wrinkly nutsack- Now go snap the carrot elsewhere and keep us off of your perv radar. Creepy.

 

[LiberalMedia]

G5000 link your offered solutions.

But if it is along the lines of Mises, prepared to have your argument shredded by those who know better.

You've been here long enough to have seen me talk about what solutions I would enact. I offer solutions on a nearly daily basis. And I have started quite a few topics outlining solutions.

Here's one example:

G5000's 5 Point Plan For Economic Prosperity And Better Cable Reception

I will respond to the one of your five points that actually deals with taxation.

5. Reform the tax code.

Every tax deduction, loophole, subsidy, credit, collectively known as "tax expenditures", is regressive. Every expenditure has to be made up for by someone else.

For example, the mortgage interest deduction. You only get it if you are monied enough to be able to buy a house. This one deduction reduces federal revenue by $100 billion each year. That $100 billion is then going to have to come from someone else's hide.

I absolutely agree with the concept of eliminating tax breaks for the rich, like this mortgage interest deduction. I would, however, like to see your source for the claim that it reduces federal revenue by $100 billion per year.

If you think of tax expenditures this way, then it becomes crystal clear that removing all expenditures makes the playing field completely flat. Some people get all bunched up over "fairness". Taking away all tax expenditures is as fair as it gets.

Agree--absolute equality, regardless of any mitigating factors, is the only acceptable option to pursue.

Then we can lower tax rates, and everyone in each bracket pays the exact same amount of tax.

What are your proposed tax brackets and marginal tax rates? This is a crucial detail that you have left unaccounted for.

And think about this added benefit: It's a lot harder to corrupt a Congressman if he isn't allowed to mess with the tax code by adding special tax expenditures for his friends.

Full stop. What if his friends are We the Pyyple? What if those friends are syngle mythyrs with 7 chyldryn, who deeply need the assistance only a big, strong, government can provide?

This last statement, combined with your earlier "we can lower tax rates" and refusal to name said rates, indicates that you would like to see America hurtling toward a libertardian non-topia where corporations thrive in a de-regulated, tax-free environment, and everyone else struggles to meet our daily needs. As a steadfast supporter of our one true savior, President Obama, I cannot allow that to happen.

 

[LiberalMedia]

Way, way too much government power: Room 641A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wrong again.

Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T

Yet another instance of USMB's favorite corporate shill attempting to blame President Obama and the rest of the gyvyrnmynt for the actions of private entities.

 

[g5000]

The mortgage interest deduction is by far the nation’s largest housing program. This tax break, the country’s third largest, is expected to provide homeowners subsidies totaling about $105 billion this year, more than double the entire budget for the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development.

The Mortgage Interest Deduction | Center for American Progress

 

[g5000]

For retards with selective visual problems:

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T on January 31, 2006, accusing the telecommunication company of violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating with the National Security Agency (NSA) in a massive, illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications.

Perhaps some people were still in potty training when it was revealed in 2006 the US government is data mining all domestic internet traffic.

But I would have thought Snowden's more recent revelations would have brought them up to date.

 

[bendog]

I don't believe g5000 said the govt may not expend money/revenue on the poor. I'm sure he would object to the govt hiring workers and setting up a department to administer the money, but that's another matter. Rather, what he said was the govt should not be able to give credits and deductions to different groups so as to affect who pays and who doesn't pay.

That limitation would allow for rates to be lowered. This is hardly a novel, or debateable, trade off. It's a key to Obama's "superpanel" proposal, and to Steve Forbes' proposals of the late 80s early 90s.

Let's get back to porn.

 

[jasonnfree]

G5000 link your offered solutions.

But if it is along the lines of Mises, prepared to have your argument shredded by those who know better.

You've been here long enough to have seen me talk about what solutions I would enact. I offer solutions on a nearly daily basis. And I have started quite a few topics outlining solutions.

Here's one example:

G5000's 5 Point Plan For Economic Prosperity And Better Cable Reception

I've seen this post. Pretty sensible. How about mortgage deduction on rental property?

 

[Sallow]

we have too much government.

Bullshit, prove it.

When you say "Bullshit", you are saying you are just fine with the amount and power of government as it stands right now.

This means it would be impossible to "prove" otherwise to you since you are obviously happy with the way things stand now. You will dismiss all evidence to the contrary as things which are necessary.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

I will now hit "Submit Reply", and as my post makes its way through an NSA monitoring program, I will ponder what kind of special retard could possibly be comfortable with that.

Well really..you should be able to show what you think is too big.

Like Rick Perry. He wanted to get rid of the Department of Education, The Department of Energy and um..probably the Department of Agriculture.

What would you take a knife too?

You think the Airline safety should be left to the Airlines?
You think the food industry should determine their own safety standards?
How about automobiles, should they watch over the safety of cars?
Should the government stop building and maintaining roads?
Should they stop building and maintaining Bridges?
Should they get out of the water safety business?
Should they stop running courts?
Should they get rid of traffic lights?
How about signage? To many damn signs, right?
Should they stop issuing licenses? I've always wanted to pilot a plane, why should I learn how?
How about those patents and copy writes? Do away with those?
And lets get rid of that pesky military. Sheesh, now that's EXPENSIVE.
And Mail..how about we privatize it all. UPS only charges 4 bucks a letter. Cheap right?
And the freakin drug administration. What the heck? What was wrong with Snake Oil?

Government is pretty bloated.

So you want to get rid of this stuff right?

There's a place like that already.

It's called Somalia!

 

[LiberalMedia]

For retards with selective visual problems:

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T on January 31, 2006, accusing the telecommunication company of violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating with the National Security Agency (NSA) in a massive, illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications.

Perhaps some people were still in potty training when it was revealed in 2006 the US government is data mining all domestic internet traffic.

But I would have thought Snowden's more recent revelations would have brought them up to date.

For corporate shills with selective visual problems:

It was dismissed on June 3, 2009

On October 9, 2012, the Supreme Court of the United States declined to review Hepting.

The government said that there is no problem here, so there is clearly no problem here. I'm not sure what you don't understand about this.

 

[pvsi]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

1. Billionaires do NOT have to work harder to survive under higher taxation, while the poor and the middle class DOES. If you give each family on welfare a lot and an opportunity to build their own house instead of welfare, they will be much happier, but when they will not be dependent on government, they will not protect government when people will rise up against it, that is why the welfare class on food stamps is being created, not just in America, but in countries around the world - in order to protect the TRUE welfare class who live on private islands and have their own private jet planes.
2. In any society, especially society that is not degraded like in America with demo republic rat circus, there are people who LOVE to help out, it is as natural as for people on this forum to spend their time day in and day out to try and do something good for society, I personally have spent thousands of my own dollars over the years to try to get my message out to help civilization, and I am not even rich. Very minimal taxation is needed to run the government IF it is not enslaved - America was sold in 1913 during Christmas holidays when most lawmakers were out. this country is now an enslaved whore, and the best thing for it is to completely collapse, it would only be better for all the people

 

[AbsoluteFreedom]

Bullshit, prove it.

When you say "Bullshit", you are saying you are just fine with the amount and power of government as it stands right now.

This means it would be impossible to "prove" otherwise to you since you are obviously happy with the way things stand now. You will dismiss all evidence to the contrary as things which are necessary.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

I will now hit "Submit Reply", and as my post makes its way through an NSA monitoring program, I will ponder what kind of special retard could possibly be comfortable with that.

You think the Airline safety should be left to the Airlines?
You think the food industry should determine their own safety standards?
How about automobiles, should they watch over the safety of cars?
Should the government stop building and maintaining roads?
Should they stop building and maintaining Bridges?
Should they get out of the water safety business?
Should they stop running courts?
Should they get rid of traffic lights?
How about signage? To many damn signs, right?
Should they stop issuing licenses? I've always wanted to pilot a plane, why should I learn how?
How about those patents and copy writes? Do away with those?
And lets get rid of that pesky military. Sheesh, now that's EXPENSIVE.
And Mail..how about we privatize it all. UPS only charges 4 bucks a letter. Cheap right?
And the freakin drug administration. What the heck? What was wrong with Snake Oil?

Government is pretty bloated.

So you want to get rid of this stuff right?

We absolutely need to get rid of all of the above, except the military and patents/copyrights, which are the only of those things authorized by the Constitution.

Although we could stand to lose the Navy and leave maritime security to the various shipping companies that stand to benefit from our continued patrolling of the seas. Privatizing the ocean could save the federal government billions of dollars annually.

 

[kaz]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:

1. Why is taxation theft?

2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?

Well, there are anarchists who oppose all taxes. However, your question really is missing most of us who want limited government.

"Taxation" is not theft. However, taxation for wealth redistribution is. It's a crime when money is taken from one person by force and given to another. That it was voted on to do it doesn't change that it is armed robbery.

However, taxes that are used for the general good are legitimate. General good means roads, police, etc that benefit all. It's when it's used to redistribute money that it is immoral. Charity can only be done by choice and redistributing money by force is not the "general" good.