Taxation is Theft

[Sallow]

When you say "Bullshit", you are saying you are just fine with the amount and power of government as it stands right now.

This means it would be impossible to "prove" otherwise to you since you are obviously happy with the way things stand now. You will dismiss all evidence to the contrary as things which are necessary.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

I will now hit "Submit Reply", and as my post makes its way through an NSA monitoring program, I will ponder what kind of special retard could possibly be comfortable with that.

Well really..you should be able to show what you think is too big.

Like Rick Perry. He wanted to get rid of the Department of Education, The Department of Energy and um..probably the Department of Agriculture.

What would you take a knife too?

You think the Airline safety should be left to the Airlines?
You think the food industry should determine their own safety standards?
How about automobiles, should they watch over the safety of cars?
Should the government stop building and maintaining roads?
Should they stop building and maintaining Bridges?
Should they get out of the water safety business?
Should they stop running courts?
Should they get rid of traffic lights?
How about signage? To many damn signs, right?
Should they stop issuing licenses? I've always wanted to pilot a plane, why should I learn how?
How about those patents and copy writes? Do away with those?
And lets get rid of that pesky military. Sheesh, now that's EXPENSIVE.
And Mail..how about we privatize it all. UPS only charges 4 bucks a letter. Cheap right?
And the freakin drug administration. What the heck? What was wrong with Snake Oil?

Is that all the government does?
Not hardly. Nope. It has much, much, much more power than that. If you have not noticed, then you are willfully blind.

That's not what I posted.

And you didn't answer the question.

 

[kaz]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

Why is it government's job to solve healthcare? Just that you say that it is government's job is the problem. Government sucks at solving anything.

As for your question, first of all, the Republicans did present a plan. It was actually good, including making individual policies tax deductible, opening markets to cross State sales and tort reform. The biggest question was why when they were in power did they not do that instead of ramping up taxes and spending.

 

[Sallow]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

Wow, what a point. Leave it to liberals to address in a country of over 300 million the few thousand who are anarchists as if you've made a relevant point. Good job, Paint. You nailed them.

We have a way of "addressing" issues. It's called voting. It's called a representative government.

When you folks talk about deconstructing that? Then it's you folks that are talking about "anarchy".

Government isn't "good" or "evil".

It's a construct, essentially, of the people.

And if you aren't involved?

You have no right to bitch.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

1. Why is taxation theft?
The compulsory removal of someone's property outside of voluntary exchange is always theft. And by it's very definition, taxation is compulsory, or demand for payment from an individual. Hence, not voluntary. Real rocket science, huh?
2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?
Voluntary contributions.

 

[kaz]

This is what I love about internet forums. I can be accused of being a liberal, a Libertarian corporate shill, and a right wing tard, all in the same day!

I am accused of being each of those every day.

 

[kaz]

Anyone who blanket supports "Taxation is theft" can simply be shrugged off.

What you do to everything you don't understand. You do a lot of shrugging...

 

[Sallow]

1. Why is taxation theft?
The compulsory removal of someone's property outside of voluntary exchange is always theft. And by it's very definition, taxation is compulsory, or demand for payment from an individual. Hence, not voluntary. Real rocket science, huh?
2. What is the better alternative to funding government operations?
Voluntary contributions.

Go young man.

Form a government based on voluntary contribution.

Feel free.

Let us all know the results!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Yes, ALL forms of government are built on violence and theft. I could not form a government that is based on voluntary measures as that goes against the very nature of the State. Theft and violence are the monopolistic tools of the government (human farming) trade.

 

[kaz]

No taxes, no government, no capitalism. There has to be some "taking" if you wish to go on "making".

Capitalism Requires Government
Government is Good - Capitalism Requires Government

Wow, what a point. Leave it to liberals to address in a country of over 300 million the few thousand who are anarchists as if you've made a relevant point. Good job, Paint. You nailed them.

We have a way of "addressing" issues. It's called voting. It's called a representative government.

When you folks talk about deconstructing that? Then it's you folks that are talking about "anarchy".

Government isn't "good" or "evil".

It's a construct, essentially, of the people.

And if you aren't involved?

You have no right to bitch.

Right, our choices are authoritarian leftism or anarchy. You cannot conceive of anything in the middle. We support leftist authoritarianism or we are anarchists. You get 50% plus one and you have the right to take our liberty and property and we just need to shut the fuck up.

You know, like when States voted for man/woman marriage, you accepted that because the majority spoke and shut up.

You're a liar and an idiot. You're a liar because you only accept the maroity when it says what you want. And you're an idiot because majority voting being sufficient in itself to take people's liberty and property is wrong. Hey, the majority voted for the Nazis, so you gotta accept what the Nazis did and shut the fuck up.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

We don't call him Shallow for nothing.

 

[Moonglow]

I play tax avoision, taxes are not a taxing issue with me...

 

[NYcarbineer]

So if taxation is theft, then the government is stealing money from the people in order to fund the agencies and institutions that are there to protect us from real theft,

such as law enforcement, the courts, the penal system.

Since almost no one objects to having the above, then all you are doing when you call taxation 'theft' is conceding that sometimes 'theft' is the right thing to do.

Really if that's all taxes were spent on I don't think there would be an issue.

Taxes are spent on more than that because the People want taxes spent on more than that;

if you can come with a way to democratically take the People out of the equation then you can have your tax preferences, and still call it democratic. lol

 

[JFK_USA]

The people who say that taxes is theft are usually people who think their ideas are the only ideas the government should consider and never anyone else's opinion. Like they are so damn important.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Some thoughts on this thread:

Theft is a crime, it is the unlawful taking of something of value; taxes have been passed by the voters, either by their representatives or by their vote. Those who whine about taxes are in reality angry about our democratic institutions.

There are only two sure things, death and taxes. Rather than whine about taxes, the discussion needs to focus on priorities. What do we want our taxes to provide? I'd like to see more resources put into proactive policies, yet we seem stuck with reactive ones (prisons, wars, etc.)

Property taxes pay for a number of things, police and fire protection, clean water, the removal of sewage, street lighting, public transportation and a myraid of other necessities which the majority of our citizens support.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The people who say that taxes is theft are usually people who think their ideas are the only ideas the government should consider and never anyone else's opinion. Like they are so damn important.

It's an issue of ethics/moral. People who say taxation is theft understand that the compulsory removal of someone's property is theft. Real rocket science, huh, Dullard. Generally speaking, someone who understands that taxation = theft do not want to remove the property of others via a third party by force. It has nothing to do with "wanting the government to only consider our ideas". It's about respecting human dignity and rights. In any other circumstance Rubes would see the action of taking property by force as immoral and wrong. But when you cast a vote to have a third party thug brigade take your neighbors property you actually feel good about it.

 

[MaxGrit]

I saw this concept briefly mentioned in another thread. I think it deserves its own discussion.

For those of you who believe that taxation is theft:



Taxes are proposed in and approved by legislative bodies, the members of which are elected by and accountable to their constituents. You either voted for the lygyslytyrs who created/raised various taxes, or you have failed to lobby the majority of the populace in your area to support candidates, policies, or referendums that would result in the reduction or abolition of taxation. By continuing to live in an area that levies taxes--be they locally-determined property taxes, statewide sales taxes, or the federal income tax--you are consenting to paying whatever taxes your elected representatives, or their agents in various revenue departments, determine that you owe.

"B-b-but, LM," you are undoubtedly saying, "My representatives aren't accountable to me, so the entire premise of your explanation of how taxation isn't theft is flawed!"

Not so, conservatards. You see, every elected representative in this country IS accountable to his or hyr constituents as a consequence of them being subject to election in the fyrst place--and in some instances, also subject to recall. Whether or not you and your fellow butthurt Wrongpublican voters actually do hold your representatives accountable for their actions is a circumstance irrelevant to the static, unchanging fact that anyone serving as an elected representatives is, by nature of their position, accountable to We the Pyyple.

So when you libertardians whine about "how far this country has fallen" and ask why "them thar taxes hafta be so derned high," remember that you did this. Every bit of it. Your actions (or more accurately for conservatards, your inactions) paved the way for the wyrld we live in today. The next time you're about to decry the American dream as being dead, stop yourself and remember: Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

lygyslytyrs, Pyyple, wyrld.., where the hell did you libertards learn spelling ? this is the second tyme ]SIC] tonight i have read a post wyth [SIC] distracting piss poor spelling and there is nothing more distracting than to read a post with shitty spelling, it jiust destroys the intent of the message.

Thys is the nyw spyllyng. The letter Y is a symbol of fymynyst pryde, and representative of our collectyve outrage at manpigs wyrld wyde. We call oursylves "womyn" rather than "women" or "woman" to byttyr distinguish oursylves from the disgusting male gyndyr; the ideas that womyn must come from manpigs like your made-up Biblical Eve, or that we must be irrevocably tied to manpigs due to syxyst interpretations of biology, are inherently misogynistic and wrong. To prove our commytmynt to womyn's lybyrytyyn, fymynysts are now slowly ryddyng oursylves of all syxyst vowels--that is, all vowels other than Y.

Leave it to a manpig to not understand womyn's issues.

A E I O U for all mankind.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Theft is a crime, it is the unlawful taking of something of value;

Thou shall not steal. It's a moral and ethical issue more than a legal one. Man can script all kinds of powers for himself via government. Totally legal. But legality has nothing to do with it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The people who say that taxes is theft are usually people who think their ideas are the only ideas the government should consider and never anyone else's opinion. Like they are so damn important.

It's an issue of ethics/moral. People who say taxation is theft understand that the compulsory removal of someone's property is theft. Real rocket science, huh, Dullard. Generally speaking, someone who understands that taxation = theft do not want to remove the property of others via a third party by force. It has nothing to do with "wanting the government to only consider our ideas". It's about respecting human dignity and rights. In any other circumstance Rubes would see the action of taking property by force as immoral and wrong. But when you cast a vote to have a third party thug brigade take your neighbors property you actually feel good about it.

Look, stop with the whine, don't pay taxes and either go some place where you don't need to pay taxes or stfu. Taxes exist, they are lawful and you're full of shit. The debate needs to be on what taxes should pay for, and what they should not. But that requires real thought, not the simple blather you are known for.

 

[GreenBean]

The trick is offering up a sober, rational alternative to the way things are. This is where the GOP really falls on its face these days. They only know how to whine about the way things are, but offer no viable, comprehensive solutions.

I am totally on board with the whole "this shit sucks" thing. It really does suck. Okay. We get it. So WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?

What sucks? It looks like you're saying that paying taxes sucks, but I want to make sure you're outing yourself as a libertardian corporate shill before I formally accuse you of it.

Taxes are the collective contributions of all members of society for the maintainence and protection of that society and it's members - however in degenerating socialist societies the collective contributions are not neccessarily used for the preservation or maintainence of the society or for the protection of its members, but rather for the advancement of the ruling classes and continued subjugation of the productive working class.

This is most certainly the case in Modern Day America as Socialists , who are really little more than "useful idiots" continue to advance the causes of the ruling class elite.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The people who say that taxes is theft are usually people who think their ideas are the only ideas the government should consider and never anyone else's opinion. Like they are so damn important.

It's an issue of ethics/moral. People who say taxation is theft understand that the compulsory removal of someone's property is theft. Real rocket science, huh, Dullard. Generally speaking, someone who understands that taxation = theft do not want to remove the property of others via a third party by force. It has nothing to do with "wanting the government to only consider our ideas". It's about respecting human dignity and rights. In any other circumstance Rubes would see the action of taking property by force as immoral and wrong. But when you cast a vote to have a third party thug brigade take your neighbors property you actually feel good about it.

Look, stop with the whine, don't pay taxes and either go some place where you don't need to pay taxes or stfu. Taxes exist, they are lawful and you're full of shit. The debate needs to be on what taxes should pay for, and what they should not. But that requires real thought, not the simple blather you are known for.

In other words, I've lost this argument and can not, with logic, debate the merits of whether taxation is theft or not. So i'll tell you to stfu and/or get out. Gee, Wry, did you think this completely worn out, bullshit, illogical nonsense up all on your own?