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Firstly, you're going to have to explain how you're defining "privacy rights" to be able to distinguish between choosing to smoke and having an abortion. One is a true private decision by any definition of the word (smoking), while the other is a stretch (abortion). At best, the line by which you're using to differentiate the two is completely arbitrary. HIPAA has no bearing on the validity of an argument, and unless you're going to turn around and argue that the whole "my body, my choice" mantra thrown out by the left is only applicable to abortion, then you don't have much in the way of an argument here.
But all in all, it's irrelevant, since smoking is only half of the equation. The right to own a gun is a right EXPLICITLY protected by the Constitution, and there is simply no way for you to argue that it's Constitutionally permissible to tax a right specifically protected by the Constitution because it's "bad" while arguing that it's impermissible to tax a right not explicitly granted by the Constitution because it's "bad". None.
And so you agree with the position that you cannot tax the exercise of the right to arms because it would infringe upon that right and thus be a violation of the 2nd amendment.That doesn't make any sense, least because (1) we do tax gun sales, of which gun ownership is a right enumerated by the Constitution (unlike "privacy rights", which are found somewhere in the penumbras and emanations of the Constitution) and (2) assuming "privacy rights" do exist, you don't seem to have a problem taxing cigarettes, which seems to me would be a violation of that right.
I'm sorry. You'll have to show me where laws have been passed stating that what guns a person buys and what brand of cigarettes he smokes are private. I, on the other hand, will simply point you to HIPAA. Those are laws, in place, regarding the privacy of one's medical care. Any tax on abortion would violate those laws. Your argument is invalid.
Firstly, you're going to have to explain how you're defining "privacy rights" to be able to distinguish between choosing to smoke and having an abortion. One is a true private decision by any definition of the word (smoking), while the other is a stretch (abortion). At best, the line by which you're using to differentiate the two is completely arbitrary. HIPAA has no bearing on the validity of an argument, and unless you're going to turn around and argue that the whole "my body, my choice" mantra thrown out by the left is only applicable to abortion, then you don't have much in the way of an argument here.
But all in all, it's irrelevant, since smoking is only half of the equation. The right to own a gun is a right EXPLICITLY protected by the Constitution, and there is simply no way for you to argue that it's Constitutionally permissible to tax a right specifically protected by the Constitution because it's "bad" while arguing that it's impermissible to tax a right not explicitly granted by the Constitution because it's "bad". None.
You're going to have to point me to relevant case law that states owning a gun is a private matter. Or that smoking is a private matter. I, on the other hand, will point you to Roe v Wade to demonstrate that abortion is a private matter per the courts.
Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
Um...no. Actually, that's not what I said at all. I said that under Roe v. Wade, the court determined abortions to fall under a person's right to privacy. HIPAA also has determined that individuals undergoing a medical procedure have a right to privacy. P-R-I-V-A-C-Y is the key here, genius.
There is nothing in the constitution or in any case law that says a citizen has a right to privately own a gun or smoke cigarettes. C'mon - you aren't even trying here are you?
Oh really. Let's take a look at your question.The question is not loaded - you simply seek to avoid it.Sorry, I don't answer loaded questions.No, it doesn't. The meaning of the word, in context, is clear.
Please address the question asked here.
As you failed to address the premise offered in the OP, and moved on to something unrelated, it can only mean that you accept the premise and wish to discuss some other detail.Pursuant to:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/288121-taxes-on-guns.html#post7074359
If the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms - the purchase and ownership of firearms in particular - can be heavily taxed to encourage or force people to not exercise said right for the "good" of society, why can't the same logic be applied to abortion?
Would punitive taxes on abortion, making it less attractive and affordable, be a legitimate means of limiting the number of abortions unterdaken each year and the number of innocent human lives ended for convenience?
The Constitution does not prevent behavior modification taxes, so that argument is out.
Boy, you guys can't get out of your own way. Women delivered the White House to Obama 6 months ago and even in bullshit theoretical arguments, the GOP war on women continues.
I'll put you into the "it is constitutional acceptable to tax abortion" column. Thank you.
Firstly, you're going to have to explain how you're defining "privacy rights" to be able to distinguish between choosing to smoke and having an abortion. One is a true private decision by any definition of the word (smoking), while the other is a stretch (abortion). At best, the line by which you're using to differentiate the two is completely arbitrary. HIPAA has no bearing on the validity of an argument, and unless you're going to turn around and argue that the whole "my body, my choice" mantra thrown out by the left is only applicable to abortion, then you don't have much in the way of an argument here.
But all in all, it's irrelevant, since smoking is only half of the equation. The right to own a gun is a right EXPLICITLY protected by the Constitution, and there is simply no way for you to argue that it's Constitutionally permissible to tax a right specifically protected by the Constitution because it's "bad" while arguing that it's impermissible to tax a right not explicitly granted by the Constitution because it's "bad". None.
You're going to have to point me to relevant case law that states owning a gun is a private matter. Or that smoking is a private matter. I, on the other hand, will point you to Roe v Wade to demonstrate that abortion is a private matter per the courts.
Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
You're purposely avoiding the question. HIPAA has nothing to do with whether or not abortions can be taxed. Indeed, if a state wanted to tax abortions, they theoretically could under the Commerce Clause (wouldn't that be funny?). Now that we have that cleared up, how about you answer the question posed to you? The Constitution very clearly protects the right to own a gun. If you believe we can tax the sales of guns, which would have a direct influence on one's ability to legally own a gun, then why isn't the same true of abortion?
ABORTIONS are not an interstate industry.
Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
Um...no. Actually, that's not what I said at all. I said that under Roe v. Wade, the court determined abortions to fall under a person's right to privacy. HIPAA also has determined that individuals undergoing a medical procedure have a right to privacy. P-R-I-V-A-C-Y is the key here, genius.
There is nothing in the constitution or in any case law that says a citizen has a right to privately own a gun or smoke cigarettes. C'mon - you aren't even trying here are you?
Good grief...
There is, however something that says the right to own a gun shall not be infringed.Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
Um...no. Actually, that's not what I said at all. I said that under Roe v. Wade, the court determined abortions to fall under a person's right to privacy. HIPAA also has determined that individuals undergoing a medical procedure have a right to privacy. P-R-I-V-A-C-Y is the key here, genius.
There is nothing in the constitution or in any case law that says a citizen has a right to privately own a gun or smoke cigarettes.
And so, such a tax would also be an undue burden on people seeking to exercise their right to keep and bear arms. Correct?...making it less attractive and affordable be a legitimate means of limiting the number of abortions undertaken each year? If by legitimate, you mean legal, the answer is no. A punitive tax would put an undue burden on the woman seeking an abortion which would be illegal.The question is not loaded - you simply seek to avoid it.Sorry, I don't answer loaded questions.
Then there's no reason whatseoever for you to waste space here or for anyone to respond to your necessarily off-topic rants,Address it? I didn't even read it.As you failed to address the premise offered in the OP, and moved on to something unrelated, it can only mean that you accept the premise and wish to discuss some other detail.Boy, you guys can't get out of your own way. Women delivered the White House to Obama 6 months ago and even in bullshit theoretical arguments, the GOP war on women continues.
I'll put you into the "it is constitutional acceptable to tax abortion" column. Thank you.
Again - based on what?You're going to have to point me to relevant case law that states owning a gun is a private matter. Or that smoking is a private matter. I, on the other hand, will point you to Roe v Wade to demonstrate that abortion is a private matter per the courts.
Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
The issue isnt whether or not guns are Constitutionally protected, but whether a punitive tax manifests an undue burden to gun ownership, where such measures are un-Constitutional.
It is a fact that laws seeking to restrict privacy rights, such as abortion, are subject to a higher level of judicial review, often strict scrutiny, where laws restricting gun possession are not.
You're going to have to point me to relevant case law that states owning a gun is a private matter. Or that smoking is a private matter. I, on the other hand, will point you to Roe v Wade to demonstrate that abortion is a private matter per the courts.
Did you not read anything I typed out?
Your argument seems to be that because having an abortion is "constitutionally protected" that it can't be taxed. Using that logic, then gun sales shouldn't be taxed, because owning a gun is also "constitutionally protected". Of course, you've yet to respond to this point, primarily because you don't have a response.
And this is without even going back to the fact you don't even apply the whole "my body, my choice" rhetoric you affix to abortion to any other personal activity one could engage in which really does involve making a choice about one's body.
The issue isnt whether or not guns are Constitutionally protected, but whether a punitive tax manifests an undue burden to gun ownership, where such measures are un-Constitutional.
It is a fact that laws seeking to restrict privacy rights, such as abortion, are subject to a higher level of judicial review, often strict scrutiny, where laws restricting gun possession are not.
Neither guns nor abortion have been subject to a tax in the context of regulatory policy, so one can only speculate as to the constitutionality of either, but given the less stringent level of judicial review applied to gun regulations, its reasonable to infer such regulations would pass Constitutional muster.
Consequently, the difference between gun possession and abortion has nothing to do with both being Constitutionally protected, but the level of judicial review a given court will use to evaluate gun regulations.
I'm not purposely avoiding anything. HIPAA is directly on point. You can't tax something that isn't subject to the public. It's private, but let's make sure the government is informed that our patient, Mrs. Smith, had an abortion and should be taxed? That's ridiculous.
ABORTIONS are not an interstate industry.
Sounds good to me.
Two or three thousand dollar tax on each abortion would be nice with the money going to support children who have been born and put up for adoption.
It doesnt have anything to do with raising revenue -- its a punitive tax, a tax desgined to restrict the exercise of the right.Sounds good to me.
Two or three thousand dollar tax on each abortion would be nice with the money going to support children who have been born and put up for adoption.
I'm fine with taxes on abortion. But your outrageous gouging solely with the intent of discouragement because noone would be able to pay it, is ridiculous.
I like it though, that the people who scream against abortion are now suggesting as a possibility revenue generation for the government from doing it.
I shall place you in the "It -is- constitutionally OK to place a punitive tax on abortion" column.
