Ted Cruz: 2nd Amendment Is 'Ultimate Check Against Government Tyranny'

[Vandalshandle]

If hate guns so much, why do I own 5 of them?

That is typical of anti gun nuts....they don't want other people to have guns...they are more than happy to have their own guns or even better, hire people to carry their guns for them.......

So now, I hate guns so much that I want to be the only one who has them?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If hate guns so much, why do I own 5 of them?

That is typical of anti gun nuts....they don't want other people to have guns...they are more than happy to have their own guns or even better, hire people to carry their guns for them.......

You truly are nuts.

 

[rightwinger]

If hate guns so much, why do I own 5 of them?

That is typical of anti gun nuts....they don't want other people to have guns...they are more than happy to have their own guns or even better, hire people to carry their guns for them.......

So now, I hate guns so much that I want to be the only one who has them?

Then you would rule the universe

 

[2aguy]

If hate guns so much, why do I own 5 of them?

That is typical of anti gun nuts....they don't want other people to have guns...they are more than happy to have their own guns or even better, hire people to carry their guns for them.......

So now, I hate guns so much that I want to be the only one who has them?

Some of the worst gun grabbers are caught with their own guns....gabby gifford's and her husband are the newest but not the first.....and when they don't personally own guns they are more than happy to ask for special exemptions for their armed security...rosie o'donell and mayor bloomberg....he is so bad he has a house on an island somewhere where the even the police aren't allowed guns...he worked out a special deal so his security are the only people who carry guns.....

 

[Vandalshandle]

If hate guns so much, why do I own 5 of them?

That is typical of anti gun nuts....they don't want other people to have guns...they are more than happy to have their own guns or even better, hire people to carry their guns for them.......

So now, I hate guns so much that I want to be the only one who has them?

Some of the worst gun grabbers are caught with their own guns....gabby gifford's and her husband are the newest but not the first.....and when they don't personally own guns they are more than happy to ask for special exemptions for their armed security...rosie o'donell and mayor bloomberg....he is so bad he has a house on an island somewhere where the even the police aren't allowed guns...he worked out a special deal so his security are the only people who carry guns.....

Wow! You know more about other private citizen's gun ownership than any 10 FBI agents! How long have you been keeping tabs?

 

[rightwinger]

The average smartphone with video capability does more to stop tyranny than any gun

 

[NYcarbineer]

Ted Cruz obviously doesn't realize the sillness of his own claim, as armed militias or armed citizens for that matter are no match for the National Guard, let alone the full forces of the US military. You would have better luck wishing generals stage a military coup.

Why cant liberals get it through their heads that the military would be on the side of the people,not the government.
When Nancy Pelosi and the DHS says returning vets are a terrorist threat and Feinstein calls all vets mentally ill,do you truly believe they'll fight for the liberals?

Some of them would. How many ex military are there? More than enough to deal with the few that would choose the obama.

Do you ever listen to yourself? Do you actually believe the crazy shit you spout?

So they say they love America but want to over throw our government.

The politicians who say they hate government run for government office.

These people are nuts.

Of course you distort the truth, as you anti gunners always do even when you don't have to....just like when hilary lies when there is no reason to.....no one said they want to overthrow the government...and of course you know this.....what has been stated is that being able to overthrow a government that has turned on the citizens to a point where armed resistance and removal of the government is the only option left to keep the people safe, is what the 2nd Amendment provides for......

The 2nd Amendment provides legal means of armed rebellion against the government?

lol

 

[mikegriffith1]

None of that made it into the Constitution

That's a silly, evasive argument. Nobody said those statements were in the Constitution. Those statements explain the intent of the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. They show that the 2nd Amendment was intended to guarantee an individual right to own guns, that the framers understood the term "militia" very differently than the way modern liberals have sought to twist it, and that the amendment's ultimate purpose was to provide protection against government tyranny when all else had failed.

And just to remind everyone of the quoted statements, which liberals here are still ducking and ignoring (and even lying about, as in the claim that the quote "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" is a mistranslation--it turns out it is not a mistranslation; see below), here are those statements again, along with a few additional ones--the additional ones are first:

"The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious [criminal; villainous] attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both."
-- William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States of America, 1829, chapter 10.
(Comment: Rawle was a contemporary of founding fathers Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and was appointed by George Washington as the first U.S. Attorney for Pennsylvania. Rawle’s book A View of the Constitution was used as a legal textbook at a number of universities, including West Point, Dartmouth, and Harvard, for decades. To this day, scholars who debate legal issues relating to the First and Second Amendments refer to Rawle’s work.)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
-- Tench Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

"That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power."
-- Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 12, 1776
(Comment: And if you read the other articles of the declaration, it becomes clear that "state" referred to Virginia and the other states, not to the national government. We also see that "militia" referred to "the body of the people.")

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined...."
-- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
(Comment: Contrary to what one liberal here claimed, it turns out that this is not a mistranslation, especially when you read the sentence in context. Here's the context--the sentence in question is in italics:

It [representative government] has its evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. ( I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Quotation Thomas Jefferson s Monticello )​

The sentence has also been translated as ""I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." "Servitutem" is "servitude," "slavery," "serfdom." See Latin Word Study Tool.)

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“The thoughtful reader may wonder, why wasn’t Jefferson’s proposal of ‘No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms’ adopted by the Virginia legislature? They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, "Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor", November 11, 1755

"To disarm the people...is the most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
-- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
(Cmment: Modern liberals misuse the word "militia." They equate it to the National Guard. There was no such thing back then.)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
-- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
-- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
-- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
-- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
-- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
-- Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
-- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
-- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
(Comment: Do liberals here know who Joseph Story was? He was a nationalist and his writings were favorable to the views of the Federalist Party and then the Whig Party and the 1850s and 1860s Republican Party. Yet, even he acknowledged the original intent of the 2nd Amendment.)

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
-- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
-- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

 

[Derideo_Te]

Repeating the same mistake over and over while expecting a different outcome is a sign of an obsessed mind. In this case the mind in question is obsessed with guns and has obviously never researched his own quotes to determine their authenticity. Instead he has merely accepted them at face value because they fit into his gun fetish agenda.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Repeating the same mistake over and over while expecting a different outcome is a sign of an obsessed mind. In this case the mind in question is obsessed with guns and has obviously never researched his own quotes to determine their authenticity. Instead he has merely accepted them at face value because they fit into his gun fetish agenda.

Read: You have no answer for those statements and you are not about to admit that Ted Cruz is right.

And, by the way, I checked every one of those statements before I posted them. You can Google each of them and establish their authenticity for yourself.

In fact, when I went to repost them, plus the additional ones I had found, I almost deleted the Jefferson statement about preferring stormy liberty to peaceful slavery because a liberal here adamantly claimed that it was mistranslated from the Latin. Luckily, I decided to dig a little deeper to check the meaning of the Latin behind the statement and discovered that the quote was not a mistranslation.

This thread will stand as a supreme example of the refusal of liberals here to admit error even when presented with indisputable evidence of their error. Ted Cruz was right. The OP and the liberals who have slavishly defended it are wrong. Anyone who can read can see this is true.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I am curious why modern American liberals are so put out by the FACT that the primary ORIGINAL purpose of the 2d Amendment was indeed that the right to bear arms DID serve as a check, by the people, on a potentially oppressive government.

I don't call of armed insurrections, yet I do support the 2d Amendment. and like the Supreme Court majority has noted (in at least one of the two relatively recent major 2d Amendment cases): the right to bear arms was a right that PRECEDED the foundation of America. The Second Amendment served only to make it explicitly a SECURED right.

 

[zeke]

I been posting on here for a couple years.. Since I first started, there has been this right wing fantasy of armed rebellion.

What I can't figure out is this; WHAT THE FUCK IS TAKING YOU RIGHT WING ASSHOLES SO DAMNED LONG TO GET ER DONE?

The gun grabbers are getting stronger as we speak. Their pressure to take your guns is relentless.
Yet all you right wing wannabe revolutionists can do is sit on your asses and bitch. Pussies.

Get the fuck up and do something about it. Or stfu and admit you all don't have the balls to face the 101rst Airborne.

 

[rightwinger]

None of that made it into the Constitution

That's a silly, evasive argument. Nobody said those statements were in the Constitution. Those statements explain the intent of the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. They show that the 2nd Amendment was intended to guarantee an individual right to own guns, that the framers understood the term "militia" very differently than the way modern liberals have sought to twist it, and that the amendment's ultimate purpose was to provide protection against government tyranny when all else had failed.

And just to remind everyone of the quoted statements, which liberals here are still ducking and ignoring (and even lying about, as in the claim that the quote "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" is a mistranslation--it turns out it is not a mistranslation; see below), here are those statements again, along with a few additional ones--the additional ones are first:

"The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious [criminal; villainous] attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both."
-- William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States of America, 1829, chapter 10.
(Comment: Rawle was a contemporary of founding fathers Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and was appointed by George Washington as the first U.S. Attorney for Pennsylvania. Rawle’s book A View of the Constitution was used as a legal textbook at a number of universities, including West Point, Dartmouth, and Harvard, for decades. To this day, scholars who debate legal issues relating to the First and Second Amendments refer to Rawle’s work.)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
-- Tench Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

"That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power."
-- Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 12, 1776
(Comment: And if you read the other articles of the declaration, it becomes clear that "state" referred to Virginia and the other states, not to the national government. We also see that "militia" referred to "the body of the people.")

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined...."
-- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
(Comment: Contrary to what one liberal here claimed, it turns out that this is not a mistranslation, especially when you read the sentence in context. Here's the context--the sentence in question is in italics:

It [representative government] has its evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. ( I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Quotation Thomas Jefferson s Monticello )​

The sentence has also been translated as ""I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." "Servitutem" is "servitude," "slavery," "serfdom." See Latin Word Study Tool.)

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“The thoughtful reader may wonder, why wasn’t Jefferson’s proposal of ‘No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms’ adopted by the Virginia legislature? They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, "Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor", November 11, 1755

"To disarm the people...is the most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
-- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
(Cmment: Modern liberals misuse the word "militia." They equate it to the National Guard. There was no such thing back then.)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
-- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
-- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
-- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
-- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
-- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
-- Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
-- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
-- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
(Comment: Do liberals here know who Joseph Story was? He was a nationalist and his writings were favorable to the views of the Federalist Party and then the Whig Party and the 1850s and 1860s Republican Party. Yet, even he acknowledged the original intent of the 2nd Amendment.)

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
-- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
-- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

The Constitution is the law of the land. Interpretations of those who signed it are not

 

[mikegriffith1]

I been posting on here for a couple years.. Since I first started, there has been this right wing fantasy of armed rebellion.

What I can't figure out is this; WHAT THE . . . IS TAKING YOU RIGHT WING ASSHOLES SO DAMNED LONG TO GET ER DONE?

The gun grabbers are getting stronger as we speak. Their pressure to take your guns is relentless.

Yet all you right wing wannabe revolutionists can do is sit on your asses and bitch. . . .

Get the fuck up and do something about it. Or stfu and admit you all don't have the balls to face the 101rst Airborne.

This is fascist idiocy. If this were 1776, you'd be wearing a red uniform and railing against "those American rebels." You reject your own country's founding principles.

And, pray tell, can you link to a single conservative post that has called for starting an armed insurrection? I'm not talking about posts that simply note that the 2nd Amendment was written to provide a last-ditch check against tyranny and/or that the people have a natural right to resist tyranny. I mean posts where someone has called for taking up arms now.

 

[rightwinger]

I am curious why modern American liberals are so put out by the FACT that the primary ORIGINAL purpose of the 2d Amendment was indeed that the right to bear arms DID serve as a check, by the people, on a potentially oppressive government.

I don't call of armed insurrections, yet I do support the 2d Amendment. and like the Supreme Court majority has noted (in at least one of the two relatively recent major 2d Amendment cases): the right to bear arms was a right that PRECEDED the foundation of America. The Second Amendment served only to make it explicitly a SECURED right.

The amendment makes it clear it is talking about the need for militias. If it wanted to talk about the need to preserve the ability for armed rebellion against that Constitition it could have......it didn't

Our Constitution is such a great document that it makes armed rebellion unnecessary

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I been posting on here for a couple years.. Since I first started, there has been this right wing fantasy of armed rebellion.

What I can't figure out is this; WHAT THE FUCK IS TAKING YOU RIGHT WING ASSHOLES SO DAMNED LONG TO GET ER DONE?

The gun grabbers are getting stronger as we speak. Their pressure to take your guns is relentless.
Yet all you right wing wannabe revolutionists can do is sit on your asses and bitch. Pussies.

Get the fuck up and do something about it. Or stfu and admit you all don't have the balls to face the 101rst Airborne.

I see no right wing fantasy for an armed rebellion. I don't see anybody on the right even clamoring for it. You must be reading the ramblings of the few and ascribing that nonsense to the many.

As for why it is taking so long: perhaps it isn't happening because your original premise is -- again -- simply false.

And even to the extent that folks correctly note that the PURPOSE of the 2d Amendment is clearly one associated with the possibility of the use of arms to deter a lawless overreaching central government, that is USUALLY couched in some pretty clear caveats. It is almost always said to be something that is a last resort.

One more thing to soothe your overwrought "mind:" I seriously doubt that anybody in the 101st Airborne would ever obey an unlawful order to attack American citizens.

 

[mikegriffith1]

The amendment makes it clear it is talking about the need for militias. If it wanted to talk about the need to preserve the ability for armed rebellion against that Constitition it could have......it didn't.

You keep repeating this lie. As I have shown, the explanatory statements of the people who wrote and adopted the Constitution prove that the 2nd Amendment was not just for militias and that the militia was simply the people of each respective state anyway.

You simply refuse to admit you're wrong even when faced with clear evidence of your error, and you just keep repeating the same refuted claim.

Why don't you address each of the quoted statements, or at least some of the most telling ones, instead of just repeating your discredited talking point?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I am curious why modern American liberals are so put out by the FACT that the primary ORIGINAL purpose of the 2d Amendment was indeed that the right to bear arms DID serve as a check, by the people, on a potentially oppressive government.

I don't call of armed insurrections, yet I do support the 2d Amendment. and like the Supreme Court majority has noted (in at least one of the two relatively recent major 2d Amendment cases): the right to bear arms was a right that PRECEDED the foundation of America. The Second Amendment served only to make it explicitly a SECURED right.

The amendment makes it clear it is talking about the need for militias. If it wanted to talk about the need to preserve the ability for armed rebellion against that Constitition it could have......it didn't

Our Constitution is such a great document that it makes armed rebellion unnecessary

No. The Amendment does NOT make any such thing "clear." In FACT, lots of the left wing attacks against gun rights INVOKES the claim that the Second Amendment is itself unclear.

Perhaps more importantly, SCOTUS has also made it clear that the RIGHT to BEAR ARMS is NOT dependent upon any military obligation.

 

[mikegriffith1]

The liberal dishonesty and abject refusal to acknowledge fact on this issue is truly amazing.

The framers wrote the 2nd Amendment because they had just fought a bloody war with an empire that had tried to disarm them. Indeed, that's how the war got started. And the framers wanted to ensure that, if all else failed, the people themselves would have the means to resist government tyranny if the federal government ever sought to oppress them the way the British had. It's just that simple, and this fact is profusely documented in founding-era sources.

Sheesh, liberals, you don't even know the basics of American history.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The premise of some of the folks who rant against the right to bear arms is some truly baseless claim that, somehow, right wingers who support the 2d Amendment are actually calling for a citizen armed uprising against the dark forces of the Federal Government.

Newsflash: when you find it expedient to use dishonest premises (i.e., lies) to make your 'arguments,' you are already implicitly admitting that you have no valid arguments to offer.

 

[rightwinger]

We have already had government tyranny in this country. Government openly denying the right to vote, freedom of assembly, right to a fair trial

This tyranny was not fought with guns, it was fought with the right to protest, a free press and a constitutional court system. The "general" was Martin Luther King

Our Constitution works and it does not need guns