Terrorist Mateen On FBI Watch List, But Still Able to Buy Guns - This Must Change

[cereal_killer]

I'm a huge 2A supporter and agree that if someone is on the "list" they should NOT be able to purchase guns. However there should be some protections put in place to make sure Americans rights are not unduly infringed upon.

You touched on it and I would agree with it. Lets say I'm put on the terror watch list. I should not be notified of it and/or aware of it. However, once I go to purchase a gun or guns I should be rejected, notified and given 7 days to contact the authorities. The will then brief me as to why I am on the list and I can either come in for an interview or surrender my right to purchase a firearms(s). If I agree to an interview and still wish to purchase a firearms(s) I will then be charged another fee for a more thorough back ground check that WILL extend to my family/friends.

So can we do the same if you want to vote?

No, no one has used votes for dubious purposes

I beg to disagree. Voting in certain parties and keeping certain people in office for too long can do plenty of harm.

The problem with fees is you can get into the issues we have in NYC, where the fee is designed to discourage people from applying at all.

How about if the check turns up negative, the government owes you 10x the fee you paid, payable in 5 days?

touche'

In regards to a negative return, no refunds. You caught the attention of the authorities enough to flag you as a threat, you pay the price to own a gun. Don't want to get flagged stay the fuck away from unscrupulous people and don't go spouting crazy shit at work/gym/public places/internet. Freedom of speech is fine and dandy but it doesn't come without repercussions in some cases.

they why wouldn't some idiot in a locality who doesn't like guns just throw everyone on the "watch" list. Just put everyone on the list, and make it $5000 to do the check to get yourself off it.

NYC does that with handgun permits, even for home use, $1000 and a 3-6 month wait. What would stop them from just making a list and putting everyone on it?

Government should have to pay for its mistakes, and more importantly, its misuse of the power to screw people over.

Anything can be abused but let them put in place a system that is just and cannot be abused. If you end up on the list it just can't be because you search IS articles on Google.

 

[Alystyr]

So can we do the same if you want to vote?

No, no one has used votes for dubious purposes

I beg to disagree. Voting in certain parties and keeping certain people in office for too long can do plenty of harm.

The problem with fees is you can get into the issues we have in NYC, where the fee is designed to discourage people from applying at all.

How about if the check turns up negative, the government owes you 10x the fee you paid, payable in 5 days?

touche'

In regards to a negative return, no refunds. You caught the attention of the authorities enough to flag you as a threat, you pay the price to own a gun. Don't want to get flagged stay the fuck away from unscrupulous people and don't go spouting crazy shit at work/gym/public places/internet. Freedom of speech is fine and dandy but it doesn't come without repercussions in some cases.

they why wouldn't some idiot in a locality who doesn't like guns just throw everyone on the "watch" list. Just put everyone on the list, and make it $5000 to do the check to get yourself off it.

NYC does that with handgun permits, even for home use, $1000 and a 3-6 month wait. What would stop them from just making a list and putting everyone on it?

Government should have to pay for its mistakes, and more importantly, its misuse of the power to screw people over.

Anything can be abused but let them put in place a system that is just and cannot be abused. If you end up on the list it just can't be because you search IS articles on Google.

I believe that was what was proposed in the OP.
Instead of just one list, have either two lists or one with different levels of threat. That way, anyone can be "watched" but only those who have demonstrated questionable activities would be moved up the list to a point where their lives can be affected by loss of flying privileges, restricted firearm possession, etc.
Something like that would probably be much better than what we currently have in place and much less likely to be abused/misused.

 

[Syriusly]

be sure to thank the nra

The NRA is all for keeping weapons out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.

The NRA is good for stopping libtards from taking away the guns the rest of us have a GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO.

This is an Obama Regime FAILURE, not an NRA failure as the NRA is not put in charge of counter terrorism, doofus.

you can't even admit to the truth.

president Obama has warned that he has no mechanism to stop suspected terrorists from purchasing guns and ammo like he has with the 'no-fly' list.

guess why he doesn't have it? the nra and gop

Because we have a respect for this thing called "due process", try to look it up.

Due process rights do not extend to terrorists or enemy combatants.

They do to American citizens.

 

[whitehall]

The FBI dropped the ball in the Boston Marathon bombing. They were involved in the ATF's incredible mess of "operation Fast Furious" and they bungled the investigation into the Orlando shooter. Heads should roll but it never happens in the Hussein administration. Meanwhile the Daily News blames the NRA.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mateen was on the FBI watch list but he was still able to buy all his guns a week before the attacks?

We need to formalize how we maintain these watch lists and the suspects should be able to challenge and clear themselves of that list efficiently and with haste, and in the time being they should be flagged to not be able to buy guns.

There is no doubt that this was at least domestic terrorism.

ISIS is claiming credit for it - which is entirely possible.

Mateen had made several terrorist threats in the past and was a known member of ISIS.

ISIS threatened to attack a gay bar in Florida three days before this attack.

What value is any Terrorist Watch List if it cannot be referenced to stop people from buying guns?

I propose this as a tentative process:

1. Person is added to Terror Watch List as an internal document for the agencies use only. These are people merely considered a possible threat with some amount of evidence to support that concern.

2. The person commits an act considered to be a form of terrorism. For example he joins ISIS or he contacts them saying he wants to join, or he joins a Wahhabi mosque with a radical cleric noted internally as one that encourages Islamic violence, or he makes threats to attack any establishment.

3. He then gets put before an internal board that decides whether to put him on a Terrorist Restriction List. Being on this list means you cannot buy a gun, an airplane ticket or anything that the BATFE considers a dangerous material. The person being put on the list is notified of the ongoing process and asks him to explain his behavior. He is given 30 days to respond. AS this is a case of agency law and not criminal law, he has no criminal protections and does not have the right to a lawyer.

4. The board decides to put him on the list or not to. IF they do he has the restrictions listed above and he has the time to appeal or request being removed from the list, etc. The list would be dynamic with names going on and some coming off over time.

5. If the person on the Terrorist Restriction List attempts to buy any of the restricted items, he gets a visit from the FBI, BATF, etc to investigate the nature of his activity.

Since by this process Mateen would have been on the restricted list over a year ago, this process would have stopped the purchases of the guns used in Florida's massacre this weekend. What is the point of monitoring and watching the terrorists if all we do has no impact on actually protecting American citizens?

Any comments, improvements or criticisms?

Yeah -- I have a couple criticisms..


The FBI controls BOTH the Instacheck system for purchasing firearms and the shady "Terrorist watch list".. The Dems are hyperventilating about Reps allowing "terrorists to buy guns"..

Could be a very good reason for this. Under the Dem "fix" ---- If you are a terrorist and want to know IF you are on the watch list --- no easier way than trying to buy a gun. Don't think even the FBI wants to make the "list" that easy to breach.

Fact is --- the FBI ALREADY KNOWS if a watched person attempts to buy. They MIGHT not want to alert them by DENYING the purchase.

Fact is --- the Feds wants the NSA to WATCH ALL OF US constantly. But they don't CONTINUE surveillance on "watch list" cases that they close. We are TOO STUPID to survive if we don't see a problem there.

Instead of building the NSA a PALACE in Utah to spy on EVERYONE ---- how about taking these cases and NOT closing them entirely? How about focusing the world's greatest spy agency on THEM for 2 or 5 years and leave the rest of us alone?

The rules and procedures STILL suck wads ----- 15 years after 9-11....

SECONDLY --- this guy Mateen WAS NOT under active investigation and therefore not ON the Watch List in the first place. His Case was CLOSED. TWICE...

That's NOT a partisan issue.. It's because PARTISANS are focused on fraternity prank politics and not the country,. Vote 3rd party...

 

[Conservative65]

be sure to thank the nra

And the GOP, Repubs who accepted bribes from the NRA and then voted for known and suspected terrorists to have easy access to any gun they want.

And RWNJ traitors who vote for the Repubs.

Why does the right want terrorists, criminals, illegals and the mentally ill to be armed to the teeth?

Why do lefties think any of the laws they propose will stop such things? That's right, you're idiots.

 

[sealybobo]

Mateen was on the FBI watch list but he was still able to buy all his guns a week before the attacks?

We need to formalize how we maintain these watch lists and the suspects should be able to challenge and clear themselves of that list efficiently and with haste, and in the time being they should be flagged to not be able to buy guns.

There is no doubt that this was at least domestic terrorism.

ISIS is claiming credit for it - which is entirely possible.

Mateen had made several terrorist threats in the past and was a known member of ISIS.

ISIS threatened to attack a gay bar in Florida three days before this attack.

What value is any Terrorist Watch List if it cannot be referenced to stop people from buying guns?

I propose this as a tentative process:

1. Person is added to Terror Watch List as an internal document for the agencies use only. These are people merely considered a possible threat with some amount of evidence to support that concern.

2. The person commits an act considered to be a form of terrorism. For example he joins ISIS or he contacts them saying he wants to join, or he joins a Wahhabi mosque with a radical cleric noted internally as one that encourages Islamic violence, or he makes threats to attack any establishment.

3. He then gets put before an internal board that decides whether to put him on a Terrorist Restriction List. Being on this list means you cannot buy a gun, an airplane ticket or anything that the BATFE considers a dangerous material. The person being put on the list is notified of the ongoing process and asks him to explain his behavior. He is given 30 days to respond. AS this is a case of agency law and not criminal law, he has no criminal protections and does not have the right to a lawyer.

4. The board decides to put him on the list or not to. IF they do he has the restrictions listed above and he has the time to appeal or request being removed from the list, etc. The list would be dynamic with names going on and some coming off over time.

5. If the person on the Terrorist Restriction List attempts to buy any of the restricted items, he gets a visit from the FBI, BATF, etc to investigate the nature of his activity.

Since by this process Mateen would have been on the restricted list over a year ago, this process would have stopped the purchases of the guns used in Florida's massacre this weekend. What is the point of monitoring and watching the terrorists if all we do has no impact on actually protecting American citizens?

Any comments, improvements or criticisms?

Maybe a lie detector at the police station for ANYONE like this guy.

Sorry sir but you've been red flagged I can't just sell you this gun. Go to your local police station.

 

[Alystyr]

The FBI dropped the ball in the Boston Marathon bombing. They were involved in the ATF's incredible mess of "operation Fast Furious" and they bungled the investigation into the Orlando shooter. Heads should roll but it never happens in the Hussein administration. Meanwhile the Daily News blames the NRA.

I agree - heads should roll.
But I wouldn't lay much - if any - blame on the individual Agents. They can only act on what information that comes down to them.
I would start the blame with those in charge of individual Field Offices. The ones who have aspirations of rising through the ranks and do so by toeing the company line and not making waves. Those are the people who prevent critical information from reaching those who can best use it so they can hog all of the glory. They are also the ones who shut down investigations that aren't PC or would make The Administration look bad.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Mateen was on the FBI watch list but he was still able to buy all his guns a week before the attacks?

We need to formalize how we maintain these watch lists and the suspects should be able to challenge and clear themselves of that list efficiently and with haste, and in the time being they should be flagged to not be able to buy guns.

There is no doubt that this was at least domestic terrorism.

ISIS is claiming credit for it - which is entirely possible.

Mateen had made several terrorist threats in the past and was a known member of ISIS.

ISIS threatened to attack a gay bar in Florida three days before this attack.

What value is any Terrorist Watch List if it cannot be referenced to stop people from buying guns?

I propose this as a tentative process:

1. Person is added to Terror Watch List as an internal document for the agencies use only. These are people merely considered a possible threat with some amount of evidence to support that concern.

2. The person commits an act considered to be a form of terrorism. For example he joins ISIS or he contacts them saying he wants to join, or he joins a Wahhabi mosque with a radical cleric noted internally as one that encourages Islamic violence, or he makes threats to attack any establishment.

3. He then gets put before an internal board that decides whether to put him on a Terrorist Restriction List. Being on this list means you cannot buy a gun, an airplane ticket or anything that the BATFE considers a dangerous material. The person being put on the list is notified of the ongoing process and asks him to explain his behavior. He is given 30 days to respond. AS this is a case of agency law and not criminal law, he has no criminal protections and does not have the right to a lawyer.

4. The board decides to put him on the list or not to. IF they do he has the restrictions listed above and he has the time to appeal or request being removed from the list, etc. The list would be dynamic with names going on and some coming off over time.

5. If the person on the Terrorist Restriction List attempts to buy any of the restricted items, he gets a visit from the FBI, BATF, etc to investigate the nature of his activity.

Since by this process Mateen would have been on the restricted list over a year ago, this process would have stopped the purchases of the guns used in Florida's massacre this weekend. What is the point of monitoring and watching the terrorists if all we do has no impact on actually protecting American citizens?

Any comments, improvements or criticisms?

Yeah -- I have a couple criticisms..


The FBI controls BOTH the Instacheck system for purchasing firearms and the shady "Terrorist watch list".. The Dems are hyperventilating about Reps allowing "terrorists to buy guns"..

Could be a very good reason for this. Under the Dem "fix" ---- If you are a terrorist and want to know IF you are on the watch list --- no easier way than trying to buy a gun. Don't think even the FBI wants to make the "list" that easy to breach.

Fact is --- the FBI ALREADY KNOWS if a watched person attempts to buy. They MIGHT not want to alert them by DENYING the purchase.

Fact is --- the Feds wants the NSA to WATCH ALL OF US constantly. But they don't CONTINUE surveillance on "watch list" cases that they close. We are TOO STUPID to survive if we don't see a problem there.

Instead of building the NSA a PALACE in Utah to spy on EVERYONE ---- how about taking these cases and NOT closing them entirely? How about focusing the world's greatest spy agency on THEM for 2 or 5 years and leave the rest of us alone?

The rules and procedures STILL suck wads ----- 15 years after 9-11....

SECONDLY --- this guy Mateen WAS NOT under active investigation and therefore not ON the Watch List in the first place. His Case was CLOSED. TWICE...

That's NOT a partisan issue.. It's because PARTISANS are focused on fraternity prank politics and not the country,. Vote 3rd party...

His case should not have been closed, obviously. We need to take people who threaten our nation and its people more seriously if Mateens threats and call for the slaughter of homosexuals in the name of Islam, his assaults on his wife and his stalking coworkers should have all been found out by the FBI, so why in the hell was he off the lists?

I dont want people indefinitely carried on watch lists, but then again, I dont want obvioust threats like this to be cleared simply because some rubric was not met that is arbitrary and designed for legal CYA.

The lives of American people need to take more priority.